[BTS] Deity shadow game
- Thread starter civac
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Hmm, yeah lack of forest might be something against marble. But thats a strike against math too.
And calendar... thats only the banana I think?
I feel I'm really out of my expertice here, but still like aestethics.
Gold for Swedagon paya, marble for Parth, (ToAr still...?), GLib and the epics.
Maybe Freddy will provide ivory soon too?
There are some natural hammers in most cities, and getting +100% gold generation on those would be nice.
@civac did you get any axe to lvl4 for heroic?
And calendar... thats only the banana I think?
I feel I'm really out of my expertice here, but still like aestethics.
Gold for Swedagon paya, marble for Parth, (ToAr still...?), GLib and the epics.
Maybe Freddy will provide ivory soon too?
There are some natural hammers in most cities, and getting +100% gold generation on those would be nice.
@civac did you get any axe to lvl4 for heroic?
I do have OB with HC, yes. There is a lot of empty space and two barb cities between us though. Near the plains sheep is also a dry corn and there are couple more fur tiles further north. Haven't been able to scout the coast for seafood yet but am about to do so.
I have no concrete plans beyond get Currency -> get more cities -> let FIN do its thing. This is one of my weaknesses, particularly in SP. Not proactive enough play. I would like to get the Mausoleum if possible.
As mentioned in the introduction, in SP I usually play NTT games on IMM but I'm not actually good at it. So it's not like I have the perfect plan here either. In MP worker techs -> Sailing/Writing -> Math -> Currency -> IW/Calender is overwhelmingly the way to go. Sometimes you see a horse archer rush or quick Metal Casting for Colossus/IND forges. Here however, krikav is right that Currency is not amazing. There are no islands so no 3yield trade routes. Bismarck's cities are just sufficient to fill the base trade routes and the Currency trade routes will be 1yield unless I can get trade connections to the other leaders via Bismarck's land. If a barb city springs up on the northern coast all bets are off. On the other hand, the ability to build Wealth is valuable. A market in the capital is also defensible with furs. Markets still suck in NTT but it's not unreasonable to build one in a strong hybrid city (both good commerce and good production/food).
As for Aethetics, I can probably build one wonder in the capital with an overflow cascade and the production it does have. Otherwise, failgold would have to come from overflow whips. Not sure the happy cap can sustain that. Some more deliberation is required.
@krikav The axes all died before they got to 10 XP. If there was any wood left near London I would have the war minister crucified. There is one 7 XP axe left iirc.
I have no concrete plans beyond get Currency -> get more cities -> let FIN do its thing. This is one of my weaknesses, particularly in SP. Not proactive enough play. I would like to get the Mausoleum if possible.
As mentioned in the introduction, in SP I usually play NTT games on IMM but I'm not actually good at it. So it's not like I have the perfect plan here either. In MP worker techs -> Sailing/Writing -> Math -> Currency -> IW/Calender is overwhelmingly the way to go. Sometimes you see a horse archer rush or quick Metal Casting for Colossus/IND forges. Here however, krikav is right that Currency is not amazing. There are no islands so no 3yield trade routes. Bismarck's cities are just sufficient to fill the base trade routes and the Currency trade routes will be 1yield unless I can get trade connections to the other leaders via Bismarck's land. If a barb city springs up on the northern coast all bets are off. On the other hand, the ability to build Wealth is valuable. A market in the capital is also defensible with furs. Markets still suck in NTT but it's not unreasonable to build one in a strong hybrid city (both good commerce and good production/food).
As for Aethetics, I can probably build one wonder in the capital with an overflow cascade and the production it does have. Otherwise, failgold would have to come from overflow whips. Not sure the happy cap can sustain that. Some more deliberation is required.
@krikav The axes all died before they got to 10 XP. If there was any wood left near London I would have the war minister crucified. There is one 7 XP axe left iirc.
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I’m certainly no expert and way less experienced than the other posters here.
But I would have thought low sea level points to a later attack, more expansion. Also the attack needs staying power as more cities to wade through. The relative value of MoM also increases vs Great Library, say. As such I would go math -> currency and calendar. Long term plan would be to expand aggressively and then attack later with redcoats / cannons. Not sure if that’s a pipe dream howeve!
But I would have thought low sea level points to a later attack, more expansion. Also the attack needs staying power as more cities to wade through. The relative value of MoM also increases vs Great Library, say. As such I would go math -> currency and calendar. Long term plan would be to expand aggressively and then attack later with redcoats / cannons. Not sure if that’s a pipe dream howeve!
@Nick723 I like the reasoning between low sea level and later attack/more expansion.
Staying power... care to elaborate abit? Do you mean siege and 1-movers, or do you consider cuir as an attack with staying power as well? What would be an example of an attack without staying power?
MoM vs GLib makes sense.
Alot of planning and expansion and a carefully planned attack with redcoats+cannons sounds like a fine plan to me!
Allthough in such a plan I would prefer to (if possible that is) strike abit earlier with cannons+muskets (or grenadiers/cuirs/elephants, depending on whats available).
Often thats possible, and after such an initial attack, it's quite easy to reach rifling and then start to supplement the already rolling army with drafted rifles.
Staying power... care to elaborate abit? Do you mean siege and 1-movers, or do you consider cuir as an attack with staying power as well? What would be an example of an attack without staying power?
MoM vs GLib makes sense.
Alot of planning and expansion and a carefully planned attack with redcoats+cannons sounds like a fine plan to me!
Allthough in such a plan I would prefer to (if possible that is) strike abit earlier with cannons+muskets (or grenadiers/cuirs/elephants, depending on whats available).
Often thats possible, and after such an initial attack, it's quite easy to reach rifling and then start to supplement the already rolling army with drafted rifles.
@krikav
Indeed I was thinking more about the attack window, so to say. I always find on deity that cuirs have a relatively short window (until AI gets rifling), and the way to make that window longer is to get there very quickly, which means staying relatively compact normally (6-8 cities?). To do that here would seem a mistake as you would allow the AI to capture so much land and mean that the breakout would be tough going. With no vassal states and low sea level, such an attack might struggle to pick off more than one AI before rifling was in and you have to start again. In the meantime, perhaps you have crashed your tech before you are close to communism / assembly line, etc. At least that’s how this tends to play out for me!
I like cannons + x better here as a) it’s later so makes more use of your bigger empire b) you can keep going pretty well till and even past infantry c) you’re a lot closer to things like artillery, assembly line etc which enable you to roll on with your army. In contrast to cuirs which always feels to me like a one shot strike (cavs aren’t much better and then you really do need siege until tanks).
I do like maybe starting a bit earlier with cannons + x, I guess the draw of juicy drafted redcoats would be too much for me to resist!
Indeed I was thinking more about the attack window, so to say. I always find on deity that cuirs have a relatively short window (until AI gets rifling), and the way to make that window longer is to get there very quickly, which means staying relatively compact normally (6-8 cities?). To do that here would seem a mistake as you would allow the AI to capture so much land and mean that the breakout would be tough going. With no vassal states and low sea level, such an attack might struggle to pick off more than one AI before rifling was in and you have to start again. In the meantime, perhaps you have crashed your tech before you are close to communism / assembly line, etc. At least that’s how this tends to play out for me!
I like cannons + x better here as a) it’s later so makes more use of your bigger empire b) you can keep going pretty well till and even past infantry c) you’re a lot closer to things like artillery, assembly line etc which enable you to roll on with your army. In contrast to cuirs which always feels to me like a one shot strike (cavs aren’t much better and then you really do need siege until tanks).
I do like maybe starting a bit earlier with cannons + x, I guess the draw of juicy drafted redcoats would be too much for me to resist!
Orthodox Math -> Currency -> Calendar -> Iron Working it is then. There are spices near Coventry. Mausoleum is doubtful. Toku already has Currency and HC will have it in 4 turns.
I wonder if it is worth it to build some scouts to fogbust the north coast and the coastal route to Bismarck.
I should probably sell Toku some health resources he doesn't need if possible and settle the extra furs in the north. Is there a cheap way to gain favor with Bismarck? Give him health resources too? Will the AI trade elephants at Cautious? They are a strategic resource after all. Will the other AIs dislike me if I trade with Bismarck. He is a diplomatic pariah and worst enemy of some of them.
I wonder if it is worth it to build some scouts to fogbust the north coast and the coastal route to Bismarck.
I should probably sell Toku some health resources he doesn't need if possible and settle the extra furs in the north. Is there a cheap way to gain favor with Bismarck? Give him health resources too? Will the AI trade elephants at Cautious? They are a strategic resource after all. Will the other AIs dislike me if I trade with Bismarck. He is a diplomatic pariah and worst enemy of some of them.
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Its Freddy, not Bismarck, no?
Fred trades strategic at pleased and has base +1 with the player. Should be easy.
Maybe gift copper for 10 turns would get fair trade and be enough.
Renegotiate resource deals every 10 turns and don't open borders and they can't ask you to stop trade.
Fred trades strategic at pleased and has base +1 with the player. Should be easy.
Maybe gift copper for 10 turns would get fair trade and be enough.
Renegotiate resource deals every 10 turns and don't open borders and they can't ask you to stop trade.
Currency was done turn 106 which is pretty bad. Meanwhile HC was somehow 3-4 turning expensive techs like Civil Service and Feudalism.
With people starting to like me and trade connections established I managed to make some good deals.
Crab city first. No monument.
Then sheep city with monument for corn and fur.
Would not settle a third, corn-fur city needs that corn badly to be useful.
Splitting the corn would make both cities laggards.
That's how I would think.
Then sheep city with monument for corn and fur.
Would not settle a third, corn-fur city needs that corn badly to be useful.
Splitting the corn would make both cities laggards.
That's how I would think.
@Rusten Thats abit better, saves a forest and closer to capital and reaches one more floodplain.
I would be tempted to farm at least one if not both of those floodplains for that city though. But financial cottages are nice too... future CS irrigation can be spread from the tundra river abit further north.
But I don't really think a city there is warranted, at least not at this stage of the game.
I would be tempted to farm at least one if not both of those floodplains for that city though. But financial cottages are nice too... future CS irrigation can be spread from the tundra river abit further north.
But I don't really think a city there is warranted, at least not at this stage of the game.
The leftmost city is meant as a later filler city. I don't mean to settle it soon. Though in the long run it's the strongest of these three cities. But that requires better tech. Yeah chaining irrigation from the tundra sounds good. With that the city has a food surplus of +7 (or +8 if the grasland 1W is also farmed).
Would you consider researching Meditation and whipping a monastery and a couple missionaries for the northern cities?
Would you consider researching Meditation and whipping a monastery and a couple missionaries for the northern cities?
A monastery is probably a good idea. Capac isn't an AI I tend to rely on for saturating my cities in the same manner as Bella/Justy/Saladin can and this looks like it will be a heavily hindu world.
But I'm not sure missionaries for the north is the reason or justification for that though.
As @Fippy mentioned, a 30H chop is available from T0 if you settle crab city first (which should have a workboat in place from T0.)
So a 30H monument is as good as a 40H+5g (travel time expenses) missionary.
But I'm not sure missionaries for the north is the reason or justification for that though.
As @Fippy mentioned, a 30H chop is available from T0 if you settle crab city first (which should have a workboat in place from T0.)
So a 30H monument is as good as a 40H+5g (travel time expenses) missionary.
Well yeah, having two workers chopping both forests and finishing the granary in crab city before it reaches half-full bar certainly has a strong appeal too.
I'm personally not that afraid of some turns of anarchy here and there, the cost of that turn is often less than the cost of a badly timed GA imho.
But then again... I usually end up postponing that GA for a very very long time as a result. Probably too much in most cases.
I'm personally not that afraid of some turns of anarchy here and there, the cost of that turn is often less than the cost of a badly timed GA imho.
But then again... I usually end up postponing that GA for a very very long time as a result. Probably too much in most cases.
Mr_Trotsky
Warlord
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- May 14, 2021
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I’d add that anarchy is less of an issue given the settings. NTT, no vassals and low sea level; this game is going long and the value of each turn is reduced slightly.
Another small point is that the quicker you get into HR, the quicker you get HC to friendly and he can’t attack you. I tend to find the diplo harder in NTT because you can’t use tech trading to make yourself more popular so shared civics become a more important tool. Although with low sea level and imperialistic I’d probably end up having given a dog poo city to every AI by the end of the game to deal with any hostility!
Another small point is that the quicker you get into HR, the quicker you get HC to friendly and he can’t attack you. I tend to find the diplo harder in NTT because you can’t use tech trading to make yourself more popular so shared civics become a more important tool. Although with low sea level and imperialistic I’d probably end up having given a dog poo city to every AI by the end of the game to deal with any hostility!
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