[BTS] Deity shadow game
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We of course agreed to send our axes and spears against the German menace. 
My units in the border area were somewhat out of position having just taking the barb city in the north.
Spoiler :
Would you consider swiching into Bureaucracy for London (see picture in spoiler above). London is not that strong and with close to 20 cities the downsides of Bureau become relevant. If so I would probably build Moai in London.
I will start the GA soon. Need to sort out GP cities first. Optimally, I would like to make a scientist and two merchants for the next GA and a trade mission. Dortmund is still in revolt for 8 turns. Not sure if waiting that long is a good idea. Will probably whip some courthouses. City costs are between 7 and 12 gold and will go up further presumably.
I'm impressed by your large stack of axes and how you put it to good use, It's not common for me to build such a large stack at that point in time, but I like it!
How much gpt AIs are willing to give depends partly on what their current economic situation is, and partly on the population in their cities.
You can add the pop in all cities, and divide by 10, floor that and you got the maximum theoretical gpt.
If you got the worker turns to spare, and you have a large chunk of resources to sell some AI, it can make alot of sense to subsidize trading to them.
Gift them some resource you can pillage (for example horse) and 100-200gpt.
Then you sell all resources you want to them for maximum gpt.
Then you pillage the horse, thereby canceling the 100gpt gift.
It's a bit tricky and only usable in certain situations, but it's a nice trick to know about.
I have used it some times when I have conquered a ton of land and are aeons behind in tech. Not only can it give me a nice economic boost, but it can also put a momentarily break on some AIs techrate.
Eventually though, it does boost them alot, since they can grow alot with the added health+happines, so care need to be taken.
At other times I have done the same trick, but only given them health resources, or only happines resources. That way I don't alleviate their current bottleneck.
Burocracy... Well I do think I would go that way.
I have a very hard time seeing any more conflict like ever on your continent. Toku always sits on his hands, Mehmed never plots at pleased, and Capac will looove the other guys for having his religion, being in HR and sharing his war.
So vass/nationhood doesn't make much sense. That leaves burocracy even though the capital might be abit lackluster.
Moai and burocracy do have some synnergy though, with +50% on hammers.
I would probably wait until the german cities are out of revolt with the GA, and as such I would not whip courthouses.
I would just stockpile population.
A GA with case but w/o paci at T138 looks nice with so many cities, and at the end of the GA I would probably want to end in slavery+OR and then spend quite some time developing infrastructure.
Courthouses looks nice, but if possible forges before that...?
The AIs will likely find some hate-magnets abroad soon enough, and you can focus on teching up to some useful tool sharp enough to carve them up one after another while they are busy with that.
Don't forget to pillage alot before the culture expands in former german territory!
I would probably farm and windmill most of everything west of bremen.
Bremen can hold 3 cottages that you can later swing over to Oxford.
That way you can concentrate the commerce multiplers to fewer cities.
How much gpt AIs are willing to give depends partly on what their current economic situation is, and partly on the population in their cities.
You can add the pop in all cities, and divide by 10, floor that and you got the maximum theoretical gpt.
If you got the worker turns to spare, and you have a large chunk of resources to sell some AI, it can make alot of sense to subsidize trading to them.
Gift them some resource you can pillage (for example horse) and 100-200gpt.
Then you sell all resources you want to them for maximum gpt.
Then you pillage the horse, thereby canceling the 100gpt gift.
It's a bit tricky and only usable in certain situations, but it's a nice trick to know about.
I have used it some times when I have conquered a ton of land and are aeons behind in tech. Not only can it give me a nice economic boost, but it can also put a momentarily break on some AIs techrate.
Eventually though, it does boost them alot, since they can grow alot with the added health+happines, so care need to be taken.
At other times I have done the same trick, but only given them health resources, or only happines resources. That way I don't alleviate their current bottleneck.
Burocracy... Well I do think I would go that way.
I have a very hard time seeing any more conflict like ever on your continent. Toku always sits on his hands, Mehmed never plots at pleased, and Capac will looove the other guys for having his religion, being in HR and sharing his war.
So vass/nationhood doesn't make much sense. That leaves burocracy even though the capital might be abit lackluster.
Moai and burocracy do have some synnergy though, with +50% on hammers.
I would probably wait until the german cities are out of revolt with the GA, and as such I would not whip courthouses.
I would just stockpile population.
A GA with case but w/o paci at T138 looks nice with so many cities, and at the end of the GA I would probably want to end in slavery+OR and then spend quite some time developing infrastructure.
Courthouses looks nice, but if possible forges before that...?
The AIs will likely find some hate-magnets abroad soon enough, and you can focus on teching up to some useful tool sharp enough to carve them up one after another while they are busy with that.
Don't forget to pillage alot before the culture expands in former german territory!
I would probably farm and windmill most of everything west of bremen.
Bremen can hold 3 cottages that you can later swing over to Oxford.
That way you can concentrate the commerce multiplers to fewer cities.
All of this makes sense. I will have to whip some more worker I think though I captured some from Frederick.
Just a note. Once you have a significant amout of cities (maybe 40) Nationhood becomes economically comparable to Bureaucracy due to lack of maintenance vs high maintenance. (Not if the capital is very strong.)
Just a note. Once you have a significant amout of cities (maybe 40) Nationhood becomes economically comparable to Bureaucracy due to lack of maintenance vs high maintenance. (Not if the capital is very strong.)
Yeah ofcourse Nationhood can be better, somewhat easy to calculate too although I often forget to add the cost of added inflation too. (I don't really understand how inflation scales)
Are civics costs higher/lower due to more land tiles..? Or is that only dependant on size setting?
Also, the +2 happy from Barracks can be quite significant in some games, and the comfort of knowing that you can draft is also not to be underestimated.
I agree abit with Bismarck who has Nationhood as a favourite civic.
Edit:
Need more workers you say...? Could be that this is a rare case for serfdom during the GA.
You do have some markets so maybe you have enough specialist slots to get the GPersons you need (One merchant and two others to reload the GA potential).
Clearing jungle is aided quite abit by serfdom.
Are civics costs higher/lower due to more land tiles..? Or is that only dependant on size setting?
Also, the +2 happy from Barracks can be quite significant in some games, and the comfort of knowing that you can draft is also not to be underestimated.
I agree abit with Bismarck who has Nationhood as a favourite civic.
Edit:
Need more workers you say...? Could be that this is a rare case for serfdom during the GA.
You do have some markets so maybe you have enough specialist slots to get the GPersons you need (One merchant and two others to reload the GA potential).
Clearing jungle is aided quite abit by serfdom.
I don't think Serfdom is needed.
Civic costs only depend on map size setting (not actual size), difficulty, city count and total population. Inflation is governed by a quadratic function which goes from 0% in turn 90 to 198% in turn 500. The quadratic term is small so it's almost linear.
Civic costs only depend on map size setting (not actual size), difficulty, city count and total population. Inflation is governed by a quadratic function which goes from 0% in turn 90 to 198% in turn 500. The quadratic term is small so it's almost linear.
This turnset was played on Sunday. I'm only reporting it now due to a combination of finally investing some time into my current pitboss and chronic lazyness.
With Nationalism gone I will likely go for Printing Press next and then either for Chemistry -> Steel or Rifling -> Engineering. What do you think? There are also one decent and two filler cities to settle.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
With Nationalism gone I will likely go for Printing Press next and then either for Chemistry -> Steel or Rifling -> Engineering. What do you think? There are also one decent and two filler cities to settle.
Not sure. 19 cities looks good, but seeing the AIs at 12 and 16 is worrying too.
I think I would focus alot on empire infrastructure and developemnt until a clear picture of how the abroad looks.
Any chance you can get your hands on the holy Buddhist city? That would open up the possibility to do a brief swap to Buddhism and tech steal a million techs from some AI with alot of multipliers.
Did you get CS? If not there is still the option of doing the astro bulb.
I think I would focus alot on empire infrastructure and developemnt until a clear picture of how the abroad looks.
Any chance you can get your hands on the holy Buddhist city? That would open up the possibility to do a brief swap to Buddhism and tech steal a million techs from some AI with alot of multipliers.
Did you get CS? If not there is still the option of doing the astro bulb.
No? The diplo on your home continent should be rock solid soon.
There might be other easier targets abroad.
Observatories are nice buildings if you need to tech alot and the traderoutes/resources might be nice too.
If it isn't a question of how to hit a close target asap, the question turns into "which next economic tech has the most impact", doesn't it?
If you are not going to go to war with rifles/cannons, how would you go about developing a strong economy?
There might be other easier targets abroad.
Observatories are nice buildings if you need to tech alot and the traderoutes/resources might be nice too.
If it isn't a question of how to hit a close target asap, the question turns into "which next economic tech has the most impact", doesn't it?
If you are not going to go to war with rifles/cannons, how would you go about developing a strong economy?
Actually, you are correct about Astronomy. However, warring across the ocean is so much less efficient it would only be worth it if there is one or more backwards Civ(s) to abuse. If there is not Astronomy is somewhat wasted.
Typical development path would be Printing Press followed by Banking then maybe Economics, though FM would indeed be better with Astronomy. Cities get forges and some get banks. Not sure about Oxford. Universities are terrible and I don't have stone.
Typical development path would be Printing Press followed by Banking then maybe Economics, though FM would indeed be better with Astronomy. Cities get forges and some get banks. Not sure about Oxford. Universities are terrible and I don't have stone.
I could go Printing Press -> Education -> (Oxford, Economics?). Then the astronomy bulb is open again(?). Bulbs of Education and Printing Press would also be possible. To be useful this would require either a backwards overseas CIv to conquer or overseas trading partners (ie. no Mercantilism).
The way to rifles over Feudalism and Guilds is faster (Printing Press -> Guilds -> Banking -> Rifling). But my economic output is not great. Maybe going for rifles directly is too slow because of that.
The way to rifles over Feudalism and Guilds is faster (Printing Press -> Guilds -> Banking -> Rifling). But my economic output is not great. Maybe going for rifles directly is too slow because of that.
I think astro is perfecly bulbable as long as you stay clear of chemistry if you go that route. WIth chem the whole path up along SciMet->Physics->Electricity->Fission comes in.
The only major reason to focus on bulbing astro here is ofcourse that it lacks pre-reqs and thus you don't get that +20% bonus researching it.
I don't know if it's fast enough. I'm a noob at NTT games.
But I would be abit hesitant at rocking the boat with the hindus before I'm confident enough I can stick at the guns. The diplo situation is so nice.
Might even be an option to try to focus 100% on economic stuff and try to beeline mass media for a diplo victory.
The only major reason to focus on bulbing astro here is ofcourse that it lacks pre-reqs and thus you don't get that +20% bonus researching it.
I don't know if it's fast enough. I'm a noob at NTT games.
But I would be abit hesitant at rocking the boat with the hindus before I'm confident enough I can stick at the guns. The diplo situation is so nice.
Might even be an option to try to focus 100% on economic stuff and try to beeline mass media for a diplo victory.
I can bulb Astronomy if I stay away from Engineering but do clear the economic techs on the upper part of the tree it seems. I'm considering bulbs to speed up the timings a bit, just as the GM trade mission would allow me to do as well.
Printing Press next leaves open both paths and the decision can be postponed. I'm considering going for Philosophy next and delaying the GA further. Two of my GP cities have Hinduism as is and I can make a monastery and a few more missionaries in the time it takes to research Philosophy. Even this cheap tech takes 6 or 7 turns.
I don't consider Diplo a victory at all so that one is out.
Printing Press next leaves open both paths and the decision can be postponed. I'm considering going for Philosophy next and delaying the GA further. Two of my GP cities have Hinduism as is and I can make a monastery and a few more missionaries in the time it takes to research Philosophy. Even this cheap tech takes 6 or 7 turns.
I don't consider Diplo a victory at all so that one is out.
I lauched the GA and switched into HR, Bureaucracy, Caste System and Pacisfism. Made two GS and a GM. Research path was Machinery, Paper, Alphabet, Printing Press followed by Education and Astronomy with a partial bulb. Switched into OR and back into slavery at the end of the GA.
Met the two missing AIs, Asoka and Mao. They have 8 and 9 cities each. Technically, I haven't located Asoka yet but he is almost certainly on the same continent as Mao wich I did find. Both are in Mercantilism unfortunately. There is also an entire barbarian-infested continent for the taking though Mao has already put one city on it. See spoiler for pictures of the new areas.
I'm making about 500 raw beakers with blanced slider position. Maoi in capital is done and some universities are being built. Capital will get Oxford once those have been whipped which wil add 60-70 more beakers per turn. Compared to HC I'm horribly behind, compared to the others on my continent I'm somewhat behind. Didn't check the new guys yet.
Met the two missing AIs, Asoka and Mao. They have 8 and 9 cities each. Technically, I haven't located Asoka yet but he is almost certainly on the same continent as Mao wich I did find. Both are in Mercantilism unfortunately. There is also an entire barbarian-infested continent for the taking though Mao has already put one city on it. See spoiler for pictures of the new areas.
Spoiler :
I'm making about 500 raw beakers with blanced slider position. Maoi in capital is done and some universities are being built. Capital will get Oxford once those have been whipped which wil add 60-70 more beakers per turn. Compared to HC I'm horribly behind, compared to the others on my continent I'm somewhat behind. Didn't check the new guys yet.
Mao is similar in peaceweight as the others, and he doesn't care much about religion. You can probably buddy up with him as well if you so choose.
Asokas land looks nice.
Likelyhood is that those two won't get along, might be good opportunities there.
Trying to get some spot on the barb island might be nice for the traderoutes?
You didn't have any silver, did you...? That alone might be sweet.
Asokas land looks nice.
Likelyhood is that those two won't get along, might be good opportunities there.
Trying to get some spot on the barb island might be nice for the traderoutes?
You didn't have any silver, did you...? That alone might be sweet.
Mao can be tough, Asoka is usually a pushover. I would probably start with Asoka.
But I'm not sure, you will have to see how the timings are. If you go steel first you can first build a land army and then get some cheap galleons with drydocks in case it's better to go for the island rather than trying to stir up some action on the home continent.
But I'm not sure, you will have to see how the timings are. If you go steel first you can first build a land army and then get some cheap galleons with drydocks in case it's better to go for the island rather than trying to stir up some action on the home continent.
I'm not sure, but I think that in no tech trading, going with grenadiers combined with the cannons might be a better idea.
I tried in that Khan Iso game, and it was soooo much to tech to get rifles.
Feud->Guilds->Banking, amagad... Now you already have PP, but I did a quick calc for me in that game and while rifling was 10-14k beakers away, grenadiers where there just 3.4k beakers away.
I tried in that Khan Iso game, and it was soooo much to tech to get rifles.
Feud->Guilds->Banking, amagad... Now you already have PP, but I did a quick calc for me in that game and while rifling was 10-14k beakers away, grenadiers where there just 3.4k beakers away.
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