[Deity Shadow] Making the jump to Deity :D

[NothingBesideRemains]

Barbs start heading to cities once avg number of cities planted for all civs is 2 (which is why it happens earlier on deity - all ais start with 1 settler, so only 1 extra city from anyone pushes global avg to 2 including you). Once that happens, barbs on 'invade city' missions can't find a path to your city (think how the pathfinder gets weird with your workboats when you tell it to move past a barb galley).

'Random' barb movement can still put them next to your 'blockers' at which point they may attack, but you won't see a steady stream heading at you.

For the map - sailing would also help connect your cities without road, which could be a major time saver. Not sure if avoiding TW before you start GW/TGL is possible/beneficial though. In particular, settling on the stone directly would insta-connect stone with sailing and masonry, but that only makes sense if it would grab fish.

 

[Ocre307]

Turnset T30-T46
T30: before rolling the turn, swap back to Warrior build. Due in 1 turn. Afterward I start on the next Warrior, due on the same turn as growth to size 4
T32: Stonehenge built.
T34: Bronze Working completed! No copper revealed anywhere on my map, though... Immediately revolt to slavery, as the capital has grown to size 4 and the worker can begin chopping the settler. Start research on Masonry.
T38: The Settler completes, and with that, we have 6 units in play, and we have to start paying 1 /turn in maintenance. There are so few free units on this difficulty.
On the converse - my warriors have been winning all their battles (since they have been on defensive terrain), which is good

T40: As my settler approaches the stone, he discovers a Fish tile in the BFC of a city settled on the stone! Thus I will settle on the stone, so that I don't need to research The Wheel. My nothernmost warrior starts defogging a coastal trade route.
T41: Washington finishes a second worker, using overflow from the two-whipped settler and a forest chop. Starts working on a work boat for better scouting.
My warrior discovers an impossible-to-reach Fish tile in the north

Spoiler :

T42: New York is founded.

Spoiler :

T44: Masonry discovered. Research next on Sailing, due in 9 turns. Washington begins work on the Great Wall.
End of turnset

On a general note, I'm not sure how to micro this wonder out. Should I use chops immediately? Or should I wait for Sailing to be discovered to connect the stone? (emote)
How early do AIs tend to build the Wall on Deity? Getting the GLH shouldn't be a problem, since they don't "see" it as a valid choice until after building a regular lighthouse, right? Or is that outdated info?

Also, my very-distant southern warrior has spent the whole turnset on a forested hill, waiting for barbs to attack him. He has made no progress exploring in the past few turns, but did get Woody II

Let me know if there's anything I can do to improve these reports (less detail? more pics?). Thanks all for your help so far

 

[krikav]

Did you revolt before the settler was out? That likely delayed the settler by one turn. Normal practice is to revolt after a settler/worker is out.

Monument first build in stone-city, a workboat can probably be built in captal and sent there.
Building a workboat there will either result in a waaay to early workboat that will cost you upkeep, or you will have to keep it in queue for ages and start to lose hammers due to decay.

Make sure the coast is scouted so the cities can be connected at sailing. I'm not sure how diagonal dark tiles work (the dark tile NW of New yorks fish), but that could possibly be an issue.

TGW can go as early as T28, all depends on random factors. More or less the only time you can count on it is if you settle on stone and beeline masonry.
I'm not that keen on TGW really, this looks like iso and in all likelyhood you will risk spawning a GSpy.
But the failgold from TGW is superb in iso, and pyramids are just crazy good in iso where the main bottleneck is usually happines.

I usually have T50 as a benchmark turn for building GLH, but Augustust (ind starting with fishing) can ofcourse troll you.
If you build it before T70 you can usually get away with that.
And I think what you mention with it not being viable for selection before lighthouse is built is correct.
I mentioned previously that you should have checked demographics (specifically land area) T1 and T4 (?) to help make an assessment about how stiff the competition for GLH will be. Gazing at those numbers can help you make educated guesses about how many AIs start with a coastal capital.


Regarding report format I think it's good.
There is your detailed writing, which can reveal your lines of reasoning and that can help provide feedback. If anything you could explain more about WHY you choose the actions you do. In this turnset for example you mention you revolt to slavery instantly.
It would have been more helpful with "I revolted to slavery instantly so I could do a 2pop whip of the settler"

Then there is the screenshots, which is the most valuable tool in my view. It gives me a chance to via a quick glance possibly spot things that I think are off, and things I like and easily provide feedback on them.
You can experiment with changing the field-of-view, and zooming out and in, so that you get screenshots that provide good overview.
Tile yields on the screenshots usually helps alot too, because then it's easier to see what tiles the cities are working.

It's also good if resouces bubbles are on, and if all cities bars and population are visible.
If some worker are doing something, you can mouseover it so that info is also added to the screenshot ("Making pasture 3 turns" for example).
You can also have key units selected and that might be a settler that is just in transit.

 

[Kaitzilla]

No copper, doh!
Looking good so far.

The barb situation looks better down south now without so much land to fogbust.
No AI means that being alone on an island is a possibility.

Spoiler :

Great Wall can go pretty fast on Deity.
It is only really worth trying if it doesn't take too many resources to attempt, barbs are an issue, and Great Lighthouse/Pyramids (Masonry) is going to be attempted I'd say.

Micro?
I'd advise starting The Great Wall immediately working the unimproved plain hill for 4*2.5=10 per turn.
Maybe pull down the capital worker to chop the forest north of the city while the other worker makes a mine.
It should end up being:
T+1 = 10
T+2 = 20
T+3 = 30
T+4 = 40
T+5 = 55
T+6 = 102
T+7 = 117
T+8 = 132
T+9 = 147 (If the AI does not have it by this point, you get the Great Wall )
I like this because it is a compromise that develops the 2nd city a bit and gets the Great Wall out in good time without the workers having to travel too far south.
Both workers can head back to the capital to help chop Great Lighthouse

Capital I'd recommend work on Settler with the overflow and then grow on Workboat.
Nothing can happen on Great Lighthouse until Sailing comes online and getting a 3rd city is more important right now anyway.
2 Workers can start chopping the capital in 7 or 8 turns and ideally the Settler can be 2-pop whipped to overflow into a complete lighthouse.
Then the workboat can be whipped later to put a good overflow into TGL.


If the Great Wall doesn't work out, then the 2nd city with the mine can pump out Warriors as needed to defend the south.
Maybe build that 3-warrior-wide path blocking wall the others mentioned.

Any fail gold would sadly have to be spent teching monuments so the 2nd city can get the fish eventually.


One of the southern warriors is being menaced by a barb and is injured.
If the barb approaches, I'd think about pulling a fogbuster 1 tile closer from the north to the 2nd city in case the southern warrior dies.

 

[krikav]

Ah, no myst and TGW is thought to provide borderpop in second city?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Ah, no myst and TGW is thought to provide borderpop in second city?

Yup.
Should be a nice little production city eventually.
Might even build pyramids some day.

Anyone have an estimate on when Barb axes and spears might appear?

I see Ocre has an exploration workboat out.
It will probably be the only way to meet the AI if it is island isolation map.

 

[Fippy]

Playing with fire here, if a stronger barb spawns close you need luck.
Can get away with things or not But that workboat instead of 2 warriors sealing you off was asking for trouble.

Spears can already spawn, very common on such maps.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Playing with fire here, if a stronger barb spawns close you need luck.
Can get away with things or not But that workboat instead of 2 warriors sealing you off was asking for trouble.

Spears can already spawn, very common on such maps.

Isn't spears and axes about 30 turns after most of the AI have bronze working?
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/barbarians.324961/

Ya, if the Great Wall fails I'd make some more warriors and do that 3 warrior wall idea right away.


Just play your game Ocre and treat us as wacky palace advisors.

If it was me I wouldn't even read this thread until I planned out the next 10 turns myself first.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Hmm, deity is all about being a step too slow and a dollar short.

How about the capital makes a Warrior right now with the overflow?

It can head down south (replace the western fogbuster?) and the southern woody 2 warrior can pull back north to make the 3 warrior wall right now.

 

[Ocre307]

Clearly I vastly underestimate early game military on Deity I will try and keep this in mind for the future! And for this game too

 

[sampsa]

Clearly I vastly underestimate early game military on Deity I will try and keep this in mind for the future! And for this game too

Also, as already pointed out, the scouting was insane. You went what, 15 tiles away from capital? Most of the time that will just cause you some trouble, since dead warriors don't spawn bust. I'd say something like 5-7 tiles away from the capital is fine, what is beyond that is mostly irrelevant for the first cities (say T50). You can be a bit more greedy with scouts of course, but even then the risk/reward is not high.

 

[Ocre307]

Turnset T47-T70
T46: I swap New York over to the Great Wall and Washington over to a settler. After putting the overflow into the sttler I swap to a warrior while still working the mine in order to get him out quickly.
T47: Start moving the other worker down to New York to get a chop into the Wall.
T48: Judaism founded. Woody II warrior heads back north to form the 3 warrior wall. (Question: does this work because barbs can path to your capital, even if they can't see any of your cities?)
T51: Thucydides "enlightens" us that we are the weakest civilization in the world. Also, I move down a worker to start chopping a second forest for the Wall.
T52: The Great Wall has been built in a far away land. well, that will be a lot of fail for us! I would've liked it too... two barb archers approaching my cities now
Washington grows to size 4 and swaps back to settler production. Due in 8. Might whip it though

T54: Sailing discovered. Also, my warriors keep their undefeated streak and kill both barb archers without issue I prepare to use a chop + settler two-pop whip for the GLH in the next turns.
T56: Settler for city #3 is produced! Overflow into an Organized-boosted Lighthouse. 86 for this turn
Since Washington has popped its 3rd ring borders already, I'll found the Fish city as discussed before.

T58: Boston founded! It begins work on a Lighthouse. (The capital can provide its Work Boat after the GLH.)

Spoiler State of the Empire :

The exploration work boat has concluded that we are very much isolated.

T59: Mysticism discovered. Next up is The Wheel, I want Pottery for granaries and cottages.
T61: I swapped Washington's Pig tile over to Boston, seeing that Washington could work the two mines and grassland hill while working on the wonder. Not sure if this was a smart idea.
T63: The Wheel discovered. Funds from the Great Wall fail are running out though
Also, a Great Prophet was born. Stonehenge was built on T32. How much of a discount do Deity AIs get for GPP? :thinking:
T64: Jewish shrine built.
Two chops at Washington complete; the GLH is due in 7 turns!

T66: Christianity founded!
The Oracle was built this turn too, so I suppose an AI lucked into a Theology slingshot

Since my exploration work boat has sailed around the entire island, I don't need to build one in my capital - I'll just send it over to Boston 9 turn delay though!

T68: Pottery is discovered. Also, we are flat broke!
I pick Iron Working as the next tech, so we can get those two other Gems online eventually.
T70: One turn left on the GLH, and no message of anyone else building it comes in. I think this means we get the GLH
End of turnset

 

[Ocre307]

Bit of an emphasis on Lighthouses here We are a fishing nation!

Spoiler :

 

[krikav]

Writing next imho.
You have GLH and no islands of your own. Getting to astro asap should be prio #1, #2 and #3.

I would try to spawn a first GSci in New York before capital spawns a GMerch. Then as early as possible I would start running 2 scientists in capital after that and hope for the best.
If a merchant... then a GA to get out a scientist in Boston in time for double astro-bulb is a possible option.

Big decision here is if you want to go for monarchy before the optics beeline. There is wine which speaks for monarchy, but OTOH your first 3 cities doesn't really benefit that much from a higher happycap (working more flatland cottages isn't exacly woo-hoo when you have to pay upkeep for each warrior providing another population).
I think I would settle one more city grabbing a ton of floodplains down south, the PH on the eastern shore 1N2W of the wine and 4N of the piggies.
But after that I would just maximize commerce 100% and try to squeeze out as early as an optics as possible.

 

[Fippy]

Sorry for being always late, but Iso maps are much more suited for Pyras than GLH with stone :-/
You built the wrong wonder

Not a monarchy map now imo, Forges are easy builds with IND so you are getting +2 happy from your gems in the future.
Each city has only 1 resi, not enuf to justify warrior spam.
Also wines are far away.

 

[krikav]

Yeah, pyramids is way way better.
And less of an issue if you spawn a GEng too which can be used to bulb machinery.

But now with GLH in, better tailor the rest of the game around that, and that means getting traderoutes asap!

 

[civac]

I don't understand. There is no way to get better traderoutes.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Bit of an emphasis on Lighthouses here We are a fishing nation!

Spoiler :

Looks like brutal isolation!
No 2 trade routes for Ocre, only 1 until Astronomy
Great Lighthouse is still good though.

Pyramids is probably the next major empire-wide priority down in New York ya.
I'd 1-pop whip the Lighthouse next turn and then 1-pop whip a Granary 5 turns after that.
Road up gems and pig too.
New York can make it to Size 5 and work 4 mines as long as the 2 forests are not cut until the end to finish Pyramids.

The main problems will be a barb Axe or Spear randomly wandering far enough north to punch through, but all 3 warriors can still take 1 step back and maintain the wall.
Other will be lack of health resources!

Without fresh water, a city only has 2 health.
Fish adds 1, pigs adds 1, and later clam adds 1. That's it
Aqueduct adds 2 and harbor adds 2 later, but in the short term is a lot of Size 4 cities and Size 6 capital.


Will need some time to think up any proper advice.
Caravels to meet the other AI should be the long term goal ya.

Iron Working for 2 more gems is not a bad choice.
Writing only unlocks expensive Libraries.
Metal Casting for Colossus is not realistic.

First impulse is to try to claim the whole island with only chariots.
How many barbs could there be?

Found a city 1N1W of Horse and put a warrior on horses to maintain the 3 Warrior Wall outside the cities to prevent a barb rush.
Use Chariot to murder any Axe, and sacrifice a Warrior or two to get any Spear down to low enough hp for the chariot to finish off.
The island isn't too big, and eventually the whole thing can be spawnbusted enough to settle the whole thing.

The double seafood spot to the southwest of New York is also quite attractive.

Spoiler :

Iron Working revealing Iron near the capital would also solve the barb problem nicely.

 

[Ocre307]

Aack, I didn't notice how few health resources we have! I wish one of those 4 Wines was a different resource. I'll make sure to plan cities on freshwater.

Maybe The Hanging Gardens would be a good idea. Most people build it for a global +1 pop point, but here +1 health per city sounds pretty nice! Not sure how I would get to Mathematics quickly though, without something silly like a GS bulb.


Maybe I'm thinking too short-term though. krikav mentioned a dedicated Astronomy rush, which might be a more effective way of getting health from AI resource trades. Get to Currency asap and then head down the bottom of the tree? Doing so with only 4-5 cities? or maybe settle the continent before rushing Astro

 

[civac]

I don't think Currency is worth it here; +1 gpt per city for what, 650 beakers?