Delay before 034 compatible release

[Vehem]

I'm making this a thread of it's own so that it's easy for everyone to find (I fully expect a few questions asking when the 034 compatible version of FF is released otherwise).

We're planning on waiting a little longer than usual before releasing an updated version of FF for 034. The main reasons are;

• Patch Week - there is normally a period of quick-fix patching for any major release and 034 will probably be the same
• Major and Overlapping Features in 034 - Some of the changes in 034 are pretty vast in scale and will take some studying before they can be used properly on the new civs. Also, some of the features overlap what we've done already (Ice Mana being the most significant) so we'll be looking at what to do there - in most cases historically I've deferred to the FfH version and that's the most likely case here too.
• Significant developments for FF - 043 is slated for the inclusion of the Scions and with the additions that Xienwolf has made to the XML lately, a fair bit more beside. It's also going to be a version with some AI tweaking (mostly to help out the Scions, but there may be knock-on effects to general AI behaviour)

Either way - once FF has been installed it's completely stand alone from the main mod these days - so you can keep the existing version of Fall Further installed whilst enjoying the latest from Kael and co (as I intend to) - it's no longer "either/or".

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

as I've already said, I think waiting for patch week to be over is the best choice.

any chance for the Jotnar to be in alongside the Scions?

 

[Valkrionn]

I agree, waiting for the patches is best. I have to say though, I prefer the way you handled the ice mana... Although with the changes to the Illians, the FfH version may be necessary. And Gekko, I don't really see the Jotnar being included yet... As awesome as it would be, the Jotnar are still undergoing development, and aren't quite a finished version yet. Maybe if Arctic Circle can crank it out in time...

 

[Valkrionn]

Well, it appears that FfH patchweek is about over... Now we get to wait a few days, only to sit through FF patchweek.

 

[xienwolf]

Unfortunately it turns out that our desire to delay in release was transmitted cosmically, and the Karmic backlash from depriving people of the joys of FF updated for 34 has swamped both Vehem and myself.

We're working on updates, but unfortunately we're also pretty busy and things might take a while.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

hahaha, theres no rush guys take your time best to get it done right the first time rather than the third time isnt it?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

we'll be ( eagerly ) waiting. take your time

 

[Valkrionn]

The best laid plans can always go awry... Take as much time as you need .

 

[Daijin]

I want it now, dammit, NOW!!!

err wait a minute, I am 41 years old...errr, take your time, gents

 

[Arctic Circle]

I agree, waiting for the patches is best. I have to say though, I prefer the way you handled the ice mana... Although with the changes to the Illians, the FfH version may be necessary. And Gekko, I don't really see the Jotnar being included yet... As awesome as it would be, the Jotnar are still undergoing development, and aren't quite a finished version yet. Maybe if Arctic Circle can crank it out in time...

While I truly appriciate the intrest, firstly I sincerly am not done and do not have the free time to crank it out.. I doubt if anything happens with Jotnar this week. Perhapd sometime next week I can fix things up. But I am pretty finished.

Secondly I think Vehem have enough on his plate. The impression I got is that he would not be very fond of an additional thing to do. But please strongly support the Jotnar as a part of next version of Fall Further.

Not to mention that I do not want to steal any of Tal's thunder, there will be enough discussions about the 'new civ' aka Scions vs other Civs. Both Jotnar and Scions both have rather unique playstyles, and I'd prefer if the 'balance' discussions to be held seperatly.

 

[Gedwyn]

I want it now, dammit, NOW!!!

err wait a minute, I am 41 years old...errr, take your time, gents

Pretty much exactly what I was going to type!

We can wait patiently if we really have to

Thanks for all the hard work.

 

[xienwolf]

Main reason I'd like to be able to push it out quickly for you guys is just the gameoption issue with swapping between FF and FfH 034. I cannot imagine it is fun to swap between the two mods regularly and have to reset everything each time

But yeah... I'm not sacrificing my teaching or grades to rush anything. However, now that the main update of the manual is done I can work more on getting things updated on this end. I've added a few small tweaks here and there already in the DLL (latest one was to maintain the City Art Style of the base Civilization for each City. Pretty cool looking Decius lands now)

 

[xienwolf]

Here is a preview of one of the major code hurdles finally overcome

View attachment 192404

I introduce you to the Civ Select Screen. The screen is launched by attempting to select the last game option (you can read the tooltip if you want, kinda sucks right now though). I say TRY to select the option because the option will never remain selected (it exists only to launch this window, and if it stays selected, this window launches as soon as you start the game).

As you can see, Infernals and Mercurians are even on the list to be changed as playable (for now at least). This screen is how it will look the first time you launch it (well, except it'll have the Scions as well when we actually release)

View attachment 192407

And in this screen I have restricted the AI to only FF Civs, and allowed myself to wind up with Balseraph, Khazad, Chislev or Austrin (so Chislev and Austrin show as selectable by anyone, and all the base FfH civs show as locked).

These controls only apply when you have Random selection set. If you choose a Civ/Leader manually, then it bypasses these restrictions (so if you want Thessa, but neither of the other 2 Ljosalfar, then you manually select her, and Lock Ljosalfar).


I am not certain, but I am pretty sure that using this in Multiplayer will cause an instant OOS upon the game finally loading. But the change in data might happen to be sent to all computers, so I haven't blocked MP use of the option just yet.

--------------------------------​

Note: The Civ Select configuration is saved as long as the game (BtS) is still loaded. So if you finish a game, leave the program active, and start a new one, all of your selections will be saved. But if you quit to the desktop, re-load FF and then go to start a new game, all civs are selectable by random under the default rules (everyone but Hybo/Basium).

Also, if you are too picky about which civs you allow, AI slots get cut. ie - launch a game where only Sidar and Kuriotates are selectable by the AI and you decide to play as Cardith Lorda. Even if you had 33 AI slots open and set on Random, you'll find the map populated by yourself, Sandalphon and another Cardith Lorda (the AI won't give itself the same leader as another AI, but apparently doesn't mind having the same one as the Human).


EDIT:

While I am doing screenshots, here is a more subtle change I have made recently:

View attachment 192409


If you look closely, you'll notice that the Unique Units listed in the Dawn of Man screen includes those units which are COMPLETELY unique, and it is followed by a list of which units they cannot build which are normally available (same is done for buildings, but they don't all fit on the screen at once. I might need to expand this screen just for that).

This is extended to display in the Civilization section of the Civilopedia, and in the Units/Buildings sections of the Civilopedia as well (ie - Tailor actually tells you it is a unique building for the Kuriotates, instead of appearing to be something available to everyone)

 

[Tarquelne]

I introduce you to the Civ Select Screen.

Nice! I've always wanted that. Well, since Civ1.

If you look closely, you'll notice that the Unique Units listed in the Dawn of Man screen includes those units which are COMPLETELY unique, and it is followed by a list of which units they cannot build which are normally available.

Cool - that'll be a big help to newbies, I think. (At least that's something I had problems with.)

 

[Gilg]

But.......................... PLEASE, an e.t.a.!?

When will i be playing ff again?

 

[Vehem]

But.......................... PLEASE, an e.t.a.!?

When will i be playing ff again?

This one is mostly my fault - I had to step back a little (as was planned anyway, but I stepped further than I'd originally intended) to sort out work/family, combined with being briefly ill and having some hard drive issues (not on a drive with FF however, and there are plenty of backups around even if it was).

In the meantime however, Xienwolf has been working hard and I arrived tonight to find a number of messages waiting for me - and it seems like he's already done a great deal of the more tedious work (XML/Python merges) as well as implementing some of the niftier features we've been planning for a while (such as the Civ select screen).

In anycase - it's now the half-term holiday (I'm a teacher) so I get a week to myself in which to finally sort out an 043 release. Regarding the ETA - I'll probably say around Nov 1st - simply to allow for some test games before the release.

 

[Gilg]

Thank you very much.... I wish I had some help to offer.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

it's great to see you back Vehem

@xienwolf: awesome job on the new civ selection screen

 

[Jean Elcard]

The selection screen is really nice work. I wanted something like this for a long time and can imagine some other uses for a screen like this already.

 

[Kjara]

Here is a preview of one of the major code hurdles finally overcome


These controls only apply when you have Random selection set. If you choose a Civ/Leader manually, then it bypasses these restrictions (so if you want Thessa, but neither of the other 2 Ljosalfar, then you manually select her, and Lock Ljosalfar).

Question about this, Does this currently only allow one to allow/deny access to a civ to the ai, not leaders?.

If so, do you plan on extending this to allow/deny access to specific leaders for both the player and the ai. (For example(not even sure this is true), but if the AI tends to do much better as Hannah rather than Falmar you can set it so the ai will always get Hannah, but only if the lanun are randomly chosen, but you can get either. Of course the same could be used for player control, if you find that Keelyn is broken with the balphs(at least if you abuse the puppet/summoner combo), then if you get them, you are forced to have Perpentach).