Delayed bronze working #2: Deity isolated

[Zx Zero Zx]

Beer resource would be 3 happy faces if it were present in Civ.

I quit smoking (all kinds) long time ago. That BW bulb sounds intriguing, care to elaborate?

Beer would be 3 5 3

You tech every but BW, and I mean everything Computers, Bio, Communism, but not BW! (BW is one of the last bulbs for a GA before FT) Very good new idea, you think so too?

 

[ahcos]

Beer would be 3 5 3

You tech every but BW, and I mean everything Computers, Bio, Communism, but not BW! (BW is one of the last bulbs for a GA before FT) Very good new idea, you think so too?

Computer require Physics, which require Astro, which requires Optics, which requires Machinery, which requires ... see where i'm heading? Aww, what a shame. Great thought, tho.

i bulbed Military Tradition today, avoiding agriculture. Happy hunting ~~

I beg your pardon, my dear lady, but i think you stole my brilliant idea:

I'll fire up a game where i avoid something like Agriculture or The Wheel, which opens up some weird bulbing paths with priests

Shame on you.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Computer require Physics, which require Astro, which requires Optics, which requires Machinery, which requires ... see where i'm heading? Aww, what a shame. Great thought, tho.

Yep it's a great bulb path isn't it! Really saves a lot of time on getting to BW.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Everyone, please try to stay on the topic of this thread or don't bother to post at all. Burying critical comments, either pro or con with "trash" posts doesn't help anyone reading this thread decide the usefulness of this strategy.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Ben Lehman]

Brennus: Thank you for posting this one. I've been enjoying your threads a lot.

I still feel like I don't have a strong grasp about how I would implement this strategy, but this is probably not a great thread for it.

yrs--
--Ben

 

[vranasm]

So if this thread is being devolved into a Lib race, insults, and off topic jokes then I think I'll just check out for now. Thanks to those that took the map seriously and provided substantive feedback.

IF the point of your whole strategy is the ability to bulb Liberalism (wasn't this actually the point of your strategy article? to open new bulb paths?) for which you have to avoid teching BW then the ability to get Liberalism sooner with teching BW is valid metric.

IF your method of avoiding BW failed at providing better Liberalism date then teching BW then your strategy failed.

Is easy as that.

I am very angry at misleading newer players into thinking that they don't need BW since it is actually reverse and making the "avoid BW" thing so big now will lead into confused new players which come here for help which you avoid to give, but others do and is actually tough to explain why some highly discussed topic is holding their game back.

edit:

it's my last post on this matter since I feel now like I got trolled and baited into something very dumb for last couple of weeks.

If you want still deny the value of comparing liberalism date when evaluating your aproach of getting liberalism then you just trolls us or are clueless how to form valid strategy.

 

[Brennus.Quigley]

IF the point of your whole strategy is the ability to bulb Liberalism (wasn't this actually the point of your strategy article? to open new bulb paths?) for which you have to avoid teching BW then the ability to get Liberalism sooner with teching BW is valid metric.

IF your method of avoiding BW failed at providing better Liberalism date then teching BW then your strategy failed.

Is easy as that.

Since you are an experienced player, you should understand that there are several things you can do to your civilization to get an earlier Lib date that will ultimately not be helpful to actually winning the game. In particular, 1) making every city a specialist city and thereby not developing commerce cities and production cities; and 2) engaging in poor trades, such as trading away valuable techs for a bit of gold to keep the science slider at 100%. For instance, when you and the others turned the last map into a Lib race, Revent (whom I have no problem with because he was upfront about it) posted the following:

I won't be playing this one any longer though! Did some really cheap shots here just to beat the current date Ie, I traded away Phil for 50 gold twice and did something similar for CS

I'm sure there are other tricks as well. The people who have actually employed such tricks would know better than I. It is simply unfair to compare the Lib dates of someone who is actually trying to win the game (BW or no BW) with someone who is just trying to get an early Lib date. This is basic stuff, vranasm. Not sure why you even need this explanation.

I am very angry at misleading newer players into thinking that they don't need BW since it is actually reverse and making the "avoid BW" thing so big now will lead into confused new players which come here for help which you avoid to give, but others do and is actually tough to explain why some highly discussed topic is holding their game back.

This is not the first time you have worked up your emotions for no reason. Why don't you take a cue from some players who have proven they are better than you and simply discuss the strategy without letting your emotions get involved? When your emotions get worked up, you have a tendency to over-react.

edit:

it's my last post on this matter since I feel now like I got trolled and baited into something very dumb for last couple of weeks.

I would welcome that.

If you want still deny the value of comparing liberalism date when evaluating your aproach of getting liberalism then you just trolls us or are clueless how to form valid strategy.

Either that or those adjectives that you are throwing at me might actually apply to you.

 

[Brennus.Quigley]

Brennus: Thank you for posting this one. I've been enjoying your threads a lot.

Thanks for the support. Glad to hear that you enjoy them. Feel free to participate more in them going forward!

I still feel like I don't have a strong grasp about how I would implement this strategy, but this is probably not a great thread for it.

I agree. This particular thread has now officially devolved and, who knows, vranasm might soon try to bring in the administrators again as part of some irrational emotional outburst. I'll see whoever is genuinely interested on the next thread. (Note that in over a week there was only one victory posted for this Deity map, and it was by an Immortal player utilizing a delayed Bronze Working strategy).

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

I agree. This particular thread has now officially devolved and, who knows, vranasm might soon try to bring in the administrators again as part of some irrational emotional outburst. I'll see whoever is genuinely interested on the next thread. (Note that in over a week there was only one victory posted for this Deity map, and it was by an Immortal player utilizing a delayed Bronze Working strategy).

You really need to stop attacking vran or I WILL report your thread AGAIN. I am pretty sure I reported your failed article before he did.

Now about why no one has posted wins is most likely due to the fact that there are a lot of people who are like me, and just won't play with events on period. Now I can see you are already madly typing about how I am such a terrible player for not playing a base game settling that is extremely poorly coded, and thus shouldn't be used. But you need to remember that you are not better than anyone who has said anything against you in this or your previous threads. So you have no right to attack them for understanding more about game that they have played for years more than you. There were a couple people who said you were a humble person in dealing with the gang bang on you, but you really aren't, and need to learn to be more humble. You are trying to force feed a strategy that can only be used in such a low number of maps down the throats of CFC that you are making new players such as Ben L WORSE at the game as he doesn't understand why this is a niche tactic.

 

[Brennus.Quigley]

You really need to stop attacking vran or I WILL report your thread AGAIN. I am pretty sure I reported your failed article before he did.

Now about why no one has posted wins is most likely due to the fact that there are a lot of people who are like me, and just won't play with events on period. Now I can see you are already madly typing about how I am such a terrible player for not playing a base game settling that is extremely poorly coded, and thus shouldn't be used. But you need to remember that you are not better than anyone who has said anything against you in this or your previous threads. So you have no right to attack them for understanding more about game that they have played for years more than you. There were a couple people who said you were a humble person in dealing with the gang bang on you, but you really aren't, and need to learn to be more humble. You are trying to force feed a strategy that can only be used in such a low number of maps down the throats of CFC that you are making new players such as Ben L WORSE at the game as he doesn't understand why this is a niche tactic.

Haha! Did you just say "gang bang" and then threaten to report the thread?! YOU are actually a major part of why this thread has devolved, not me!

And about events. Yeah, I already know that you don't like them. You quit whenever there's a slave revolt because it messes with your slavery strategy. Well, if that's the case then why are you still posting on this thread weeks later? Go play your other games! Leave this thread for those that actually want to seriously play the map and discuss the strategy!

 

[UnforcedError]

Vranasm and Zero are right, Brennus. Posting a thread called "THE BENEFITS OF AVOIDING BRONZE WORKING" will be misleading for inexperienced players who don't yet understand the basic mechanics of the game and who will then try to avoid BW at all costs only to follow a bulbing path they will have no benefit from in the end. You could post more starting screenshots where you'd employ this tactic and also put an emphasis on the fact that this is a niche strategy.

And about events. Yeah, I already know that you don't like them. You quit whenever there's a slave revolt because it messes with your slavery strategy. Well, if that's the case then why are you still posting on this thread weeks later? Go play your other games! Leave this thread for those that actually want to seriously play the map and discuss the strategy!

Well I'm no native English speaker but I'd say the words "strategy" and "random events" are contradictory.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Haha! Did you just say "gang bang" and then threaten to report the thread?! YOU are actually a major part of why this thread has devolved, not me!

And about events. Yeah, I already know that you don't like them. You quit whenever there's a slave revolt because it messes with your slavery strategy. Well, if that's the case then why are you still posting on this thread weeks later? Go play your other games! Leave this thread for those that actually want to seriously play the map and discuss the strategy!

A threat is used to stop someone to do something, like I will shoot you unless you don't drop that bag. Now here the person threating most likely doesn't actually want to shoot them, and probably won't. But on the other hand I a simply stating a fact that if you keep attacking vran I will just report the thread again. There is no threat implied there, just telling you what will happen, and what happened. I do not expect you to get the inside joke of gang bang.

The thread hasn't devolved due to me, it is mostly due to there is no one but you seriously playing the map. So you can't really discuss with yourself. But even so you seem to try.

Now you seriously don't understand why I quit that map. I got 2 slave revolts in a row. I went from 3 pop, and building a settler where things were looking good. To having a 1 pop city in revolt. You ask why I am posting, and it is fairly simple. You are consistently attacking a person I like, and respect for no reason.

 

[Brennus.Quigley]

Vranasm and Zero are right, Brennus. Posting a thread called "THE BENEFITS OF AVOIDING BRONZE WORKING" will be misleading for inexperienced players who don't yet understand the basic mechanics of the game and who will then try to avoid BW at all costs only to follow a bulbing path they will have no benefit from in the end. You could post more starting screenshots where you'd employ this tactic and also put an emphasis on the fact that this is a niche strategy.

Nope. The article specifically says that early Bronze Working syncs with most maps. I also added a note at the bottom when I revised it to inform readers that the strategies in it are disputed by some. Your statement that "inexperienced players...will then try to avoid BW at all costs" is simply a misleading exaggeration. I actually expect that type of response from the others, but not you.

Well I'm no native English speaker but I'd say the words "strategy" and "random events" are contradictory.

With all due respect, you are again wrong. Are you implying that when you play the game with huts and events that you have no strategy? Quite the contrary, dealing with events affects strategy in noticeable ways: slavery is less powerful relative to the other labor civics, cottages are not wisely placed next to mountains, it is good to keep some gold in the treasury, etc...

I do not expect you to get the inside joke of gang bang.

I don't think it's an inside joke. I think it is an inappropriate comment by a rude, aggressive poster whose actually avatar is the body of Shaka (an aggressive leader) and the official "troll face".

The thread hasn't devolved due to me, it is mostly due to there is no one but you seriously playing the map.

Many have played it, including your friend.

Now you seriously don't understand why I quit that map. I got 2 slave revolts in a row. I went from 3 pop, and building a settler where things were looking good. To having a 1 pop city in revolt.

Yup. In the default version of the game, that kind of stuff can happen when you use the slavery civic. When it happens to me, I deal with it, and I understand that that is part of the risk of using the slavery civic.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Nope. The article specifically says that early Bronze Working syncs with almost no maps. I also added a note at the bottom when I revised it to inform readers that the strategies in it are disputed by some. Your statement that "inexperienced players...will then try to avoid BW at all costs" is simply a misleading exaggeration. I actually expect that type of response from the others, but not you.

Sorry I had to correct a typo.

With all due respect, you are again wrong. Are you implying that when you play the game with huts and events that you have no strategy? Quite the contrary, dealing with events affects strategy in noticeable ways: slavery is less powerful relative to the other labor civics, cottages are not wisely placed next to mountains, it is good to keep some gold in the treasury, etc...

Again you are pushing your blatantly incorrect ideas on others please stop. Or people might start thinking that playing with lucky huts makes you good. And again you are using the word strategy wrong. What you are looking for is tactics.

I don't think it's an inside joke. I think it is an inappropriate comment by a rude, aggressive poster whose actually avatar is the body of Shaka (an aggressive leader) and the official "troll face".

It seriously doesn't matter what you think. An inside joke is an inside joke because no one but the people on the inside get it. Now I must have to say yes I am a troll, but no my avatar has nothing to do with me. It is another inside joke.

Many have played it, including your friend.

I did not say no one has played it but you. Just no one took it all that seriously. Comparing with you is not like trying to gain a HoF spot.

Yup. In the default version of the game, that kind of stuff can happen when you use the slavery civic. When it happens to me, I deal with it, and I understand that that is part of the risk of using the slavery civic.

So riddle me this why did Firaxis allow for custom games where you can turn off events, and huts if they didn't know they were flawed, and unneeded. There is a huge reason why events didn't carry over to Civ5. You seem to be taking people playing with out events as an attack on you. When it is people trying to make you realize that the event coding them selves is flawed.

 

[Mylene]

Derailing this thread again looks more useful than ever
Here have some wine, beers for Dirk and Zero.

I thought we are passed the days of discussing events here, cos everybody agreed they are..bad.
Cities, wonders, workers are part of this game. Events are part of this game if you like them, that's why we have this sweet little option for turning them OFF.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

I think I'll head over to Lymonds instead of taking the beer.

My everyone but BQ agreed they suck. So he has to go all I am better than everyone else because I play with events because they are the best thing ever. They aren't flawed in anyway at all. Getting 2 slave revolts in a row isn't something wrong with the coding. Firaxis just wants people who use slavery to lose due to having 1 city that is in 10 turns of revolt.

 

[Brennus.Quigley]

So riddle me this why did Firaxis allow for custom games where you can turn off events, and huts if they didn't know they were flawed, and unneeded.

There's hundreds of options, including "Always Peace".

Derailing this thread again looks more useful than ever

Because you're too good of a player to beat the map?

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

There's hundreds of options, including "Always Peace".

By hundreds I will assume you can count, and meant 23 but if you can't I am sorry then yes there truly is hundreds. I am not sure if you realize this but Always Peace on higher difficulties, and more commonly played maps is actually a difficulty boost. Not being able to stop an IMP who has 2x as many cities as everyone else isn't possible on Always Peace. There are very few ways to win it consistently.

 

[Jack Funk]

This has finally really left the rails.

@Brennus

I don't believe you are a troll in the classic sense, but I do believe that you like to be the smartest guy in the room (see your side comment about working on your dissertation). When it comes to this room and this topic, you are not. And you can't let go.

Have some people been snarky and insulting? Yes. Absolutely. Have you been smug and dismissive? Yes. Absolutely.

When it all washes out, I think many agree that your strategy is viable in a small number of cases, but it is optimal in few.

There are a lot of strange bulbing opportunities that can be uncovered by ignoring various techs. You found one. Cool. If you like playing that way, then great. It's your game, have fun and enjoy yourself. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you.

 

[ori]

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