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Demogame Rules - Bugs Report

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Game of Democracy IV' started by Peri, Jan 13, 2004.

  1. Peri

    Peri Vote early and vote often

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    3,261
    Greetings Citizens.
    In order to reduce the amount of Judicial activity on rule interpretation, I suggest that we use this special non discussion thread to post any conflicts, anomalies or omissions in our ruleset that we discover.

    Please only post any problems you discover and the Judiciary will initiate procedure to rectify them through the Legislature.

    Thank you. :)

    (Please sticky this)
     
  2. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    And I left my notes at my desk at work ...

    Couple of core ones that I can remember:
    * Refusal polls need to be cleaned up - all laws calling for one should simply state "Any citizen may request a refusal poll for this". CoS section on Refusal polls should be cleaned up as well. A strict reading of current verbage could imply that deputies are not subject to them.
    * CoL and CoS Amendment sections along with JR Review of proposed laws could use some clarification.

    There are others on the list, these are just on the top of my head.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  3. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    The Senate is empowered to approve cash rushes but it is not specified who should post the instruction.
     
  4. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    The term election needs to be clarified to encompass the entire election cycle, including any runoff polls.

    The term vacancy / vacant needs to be clarified to state it applies only in certain cases. This is also handled indirectly by the 1st point, an election isn't over until its completely over.
    • When an office remains unfilled after an election cycle because there were no candidates
    • When an official resigns
    • When the office holder is declared absent and removed from office

    If the same person wins multiple offices, do they enter both offices and then resign one, creating a vacancy, or do they withdraw from one election prior to its completion, so the 2nd place steps up?
     
  5. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Believe it or not, the last section of our ruleset is going through Ratification right now (thanks, Cyc, for posting it).

    To focus the discussions, I suggest we create a couple of threads on the various problem areas. For example, we should have one for Election cleanup, one for instruction cleanup, one for refusal poll cleanup, one for general typos cleanup and one for general clarifications.

    The cleanup threads are basically clarification stuff, not for wholesale revisions. Let's keep that process seperate from this. My reasoning is that, in general, the clarifications should go faster than revisions. No laws are being changed, just clarifications to make sure everyone is looking at the same thing.

    I suggest we start this a day or two after the final CoS is posted.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  6. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Section C.3 of the CoL is unworkable. Given the short time between game play sessions there is not enough time to get proposals from Senators and then post a seperate poll thread that will allow 24 hours to vote and still allow the President of the Senate to post slider instructions. Also, seperate poll threads do not seem to be needed as these can be handled in theSenate thread itself. Also, allowances should be made for cash rushes that are not made at the same time.
     
  7. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Section C.1.a.2 of the CoL defines the Senatorial President as the VP, but does not specify a mechanism to fill this important office during official absences of the VP. This leaves us with nobody empowered to post instructions on the areas within the Senate's control during a Vice-Presidential absence.
     
  8. Furiey

    Furiey No Longer Just Lurking

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    CoS J.1 specifies that Nomination threads and the Nomination Tracker threads should be posted in the Citizens sub-forum. We've been doing all this in the Main Forum which keeps all the election threads neatly (well as neat as they can be) in one place.
     
  9. zorven

    zorven 12,000 Suns

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    CoS B.1.k (nominations) conflicts with CoS J.1.a and J.1.e.
     
  10. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    To summarize and organize the above posts:
    Code:
    Elections:
    -- The term election needs to be clarified to encompass 
       the entire election cycle, including any runoff polls.
    -- CoS J.1 specifies that Nomination threads and the 
       Nomination Tracker threads should be posted in the 
       Citizens sub-forum. We've been doing all this in the Main 
       Forum which keeps all the election threads neatly (well 
       as neat as they can be) in one place.  [b]CORRECTED[/b]
    -- CoS B.1.k (nominations) conflicts with CoS J.1.a and 
       J.1.e.  [b]CORRECTED[/b]
    
    Vacancies:
    -- The term vacancy / vacant needs to be clarified to state 
       it applies only in certain cases. This is also handled 
       indirectly by the 1st point, an election isn't over until 
       its completely over.
       -- When an office remains unfilled after an election 
          cycle because there were no candidates
       -- When an official resigns
       -- When the office holder is declared absent and removed 
          from office
    -- If the same person wins multiple offices, do they enter 
       both offices and then resign one, creating a vacancy, or 
       do they withdraw from one election prior to its 
       completion, so the 2nd place steps up?
    
    
    Senate:
    -- Section C.3 of the CoL is unworkable. Given the short 
       time between game play sessions there is not enough time 
       to get proposals from Senators and then post a seperate 
       poll thread that will allow 24 hours to vote and still 
       allow the President of the Senate to post slider 
       instructions. 
    -- Also, seperate poll threads do not seem to be needed as 
       these can be handled in the Senate thread itself. Also, 
       allowances should be made for cash rushes that are not 
       made at the same time.
    -- Section C.1.a.2 of the CoL defines the Senatorial 
       President as the VP, but does not specify a mechanism to 
       fill this important office during official absences of 
       the VP. This leaves us with nobody empowered to post 
       instructions on the areas within the Senate's control 
       during a Vice-Presidential absence.
       
    Refusal Polls:
    -- Refusal polls need to be cleaned up 
       -- All laws calling for one should simply state "Any 
          citizen may request a refusal poll for this action". 
    -- CoS section on Refusal polls should be cleaned up as 
       well. A strict reading of current verbage could imply 
       that deputies are not subject to them. 
       
    Amendments
    -- CoL and CoS Amendment sections along with JR Review of 
       proposed laws could use some clarification.
    -- Explicitly state in CoS Amendments that no Amendment may
       contradict any Article of the Constitution or Section of
       the Code of Laws
       -- Basically, establish the CoS as below the CoL.
    
    Is this accurate?

    -- Ravensfire
     
  11. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Something funny from the CoL, section A
    Code:
      6.  Right to Seek a Redress of Grievances
        a.  Any citizen may call to account any violation of the 
            Constitution or Code of Laws. 
    
    You can't seek a redress of grievances (CC) for violating the CoS. I cannot believe I missed that; :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

    -- Ravensfire
     
  12. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    According to a recent JR, it is up to ministers or governors requesting cash rushes to post instructions once a given cash rush is approved by the Senate. This puts the DP in a tight spot as he or she will be going on the assumption that the various leaders have actually approved the funding request. Would it not be better for the Senate to be its own messanger?

    Also, there seems to be nothing in any of the Three Books that would prevent a game play session one second after a term begins. I thought the rules were written so that there would always be ample time before a given session for proper nistructions to be posted!
     
  13. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    2. The Congress (Citizens)
    a. Comprised of all registered citizens of Fanatika.
    b. Provincial borders shall be determined and approved
    by the Congress.
    1. A province should contain no more than
    approximately 126 tiles


    It has come to my attention that people are trying to side step the intention of this Law (as clearly documented in the discusions that supported it). It should read:

    2. The Congress (Citizens)
    a. Comprised of all registered citizens of Fanatika.
    b. Provincial borders shall be determined and approved
    by the Congress.
    1. A province should contain no more than
    approximately 126 Land tiles.

    By correcting this, we could clear up any miss understanding about the Law.
     
  14. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Cleanup thread #1 is posted here.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  15. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    A recent JR over provincial borders, especially at the beginning of the game, prompted this post from me. I'm copying it here, in hopes the future DG's will consider this.

    I am still concerned about the use of "tradition" as law. As most of you know, I have trouble with that, and have tried to put many of these traditions in our law. New players do not know these traditions, creating confusion.

    In this case, by tradition, the first province is everything. Yet, there is nothing within the law to support such a conclusion, nothing that defines a "default" set of borders. Adding something like that would have taken a single sentance "Until such times as provincial borders are defined, all land discovered is considered part of the first province.", and this review would not have existed.

    My thanks,
    -- Ravensfire
     

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