Denmark

[tu_79]

I thought coastal tiles are the land tiles adjacent to sea. The others are sea tiles and ocean tiles.

 

[Gazebo]

Uh Oh. I've toyed with the double move on coast for other units and I've abandoned it. I had assumed before coming to this mod that you had come to the same conclusion I had, which is why it had been dropped from ironclads.

Even if you give a flat -1 move, It's an absolute tremendous amount of movement, which stacks with things like lighthouse/Grand Canal/Imperialism to make maneuvering trivial. This translates to just double movement on all triremes, which is far more powerful than England's naval boost.

I would ask that you reconsider using double move on coast.

I've been tinkering with Double Heal as well, and I think I like it more. Both are valid, and I don't think it is too strong for a UA component, but I think the double healing will be more balanced.

G

 

[pineappledan]

I've been tinkering with Double Heal as well, and I think I like it more. Both are valid, and I don't think it is too strong for a UA component, but I think the double healing will be more balanced.

Not sure how useful that would be without also giving them the ability to heal in neutral territory. That's a bonus for defensive play, which doesn't seem to fit with Denmark's ethos. If you game them the ability to heal outside friendly territory though, it would override the Grand Canal wonder, and would be very OP in early game.

Longships had symmetrical bows, which allowed them to be operated in reverse and steered effectively. They were light enough that they could be carried onto shore for a raid, then quickly pushed back out to sea without turning the ship back around. I still think giving longships "can move after attack", like land cavalry units, would be a great addition which would also have more historical basis than the other proposed longship abilities.

 

[Gazebo]

Not sure how useful that would be without also giving them the ability to heal in neutral territory. That's a bonus for defensive play, which doesn't seem to fit with Denmark's ethos. If you game them the ability to heal outside friendly territory though, it would override the Grand Canal wonder, and would be very OP in early game.

Longships had symmetrical bows, which allowed them to be operated in reverse and steered effectively. They were light enough that they could be carried onto shore for a raid, then quickly pushed back out to sea without turning the ship back around. I still think giving longships "can move after attack", like land cavalry units, would be a great addition which would also have more historical basis than the other proposed longship abilities.

My thinking on the double heal is that it reduces the lag-time for attacking, pillaging a few sea resources, and ducking out to heal at home. I fear that move after attack would end up being way too strong post-renaissance, which is kinda asymmetric with their kit.

G

 

[CrazyG]

Is that doubling healing for pillaging for a tile? That could be useful.

 

[Gazebo]

Is that doubling healing for pillaging for a tile? That could be useful.

There's a promotion element that can fully heal a unit if you pillage a tile (instead of the standard amount). I'm currently tinkering with that.

G

 

[Deadstarre]

There's a promotion element that can fully heal a unit if you pillage a tile (instead of the standard amount). I'm currently tinkering with that.

G

Its too rigid as an all-or-nothing boolean, that was a disappointing vanilla table to find =( it'd be useful if a value could be assigned like only +10hp when pillaging

 

[pineappledan]

My thinking on the double heal is that it reduces the lag-time for attacking, pillaging a few sea resources, and ducking out to heal at home. I fear that move after attack would end up being way too strong post-renaissance, which is kinda asymmetric with their kit.

The vikings of the Industrial age . I guess this says more about Caravel/Corvette's relative power than it does about anything else. I think it's fine if a UA has power throughout the game, and spikes outside their historical context. That's why it's in the UA after all.

I really don't like the double heal idea is all. If I get snubbed for the Treasure Fleet resolution that's basically a ragequit right there. There's so much synergy with that 1 wonder that your post-renaissance strategy hinges on it, unless you lock the double heal to friendly territory only. Denmark will just combine a double heal with the dreadnought line and stonewall any attempted naval invasion if you lock it to friendly territory. I know your intent is for this to be used aggressively, but the result will be defensive strength primarily. Denmark isn't always the one on the attack, after all.

 

[Rekk]

The vikings of the Industrial age . I guess this says more about Caravel/Corvette's relative power than it does about anything else. I think it's fine if a UA has power throughout the game, and spikes outside their historical context. That's why it's in the UA after all.

I really don't like the double heal idea is all. If I get snubbed for the Treasure Fleet resolution that's basically a ragequit right there. There's so much synergy with that 1 wonder that your post-renaissance strategy hinges on it, unless you lock the double heal to friendly territory only. Denmark will just combine a double heal with the dreadnought line and stonewall any attempted naval invasion if you lock it to friendly territory. I know your intent is for this to be used aggressively, but the result will be defensive strength primarily. Denmark isn't always the one on the attack, after all.

You don't think this just gives higher priority to the 'supply' promotion effect, which I believe is available to all ships?

 

[pineappledan]

I’d rather gamble and smash apart a neighbor’s entire infrastructure for free on pillage, pour that into the WC resolution and get it for free on every new ship forever.

 

[Rekk]

I’d rather gamble and smash apart a neighbor’s entire infrastructure for free on pillage, pour that into the WC resolution and get it for free on every new ship forever.

And ragequit if you fail .

 

[pineappledan]

Exactly.

With a double heal on ships promotion, Denmark's core strategy amounts to Get the Canal.
With a double move on coast promotion, Denmark's core strategy amounts to Get the Lighthouse AND the Canal.

 

[Gazebo]

Exactly.

With a double heal on ships promotion, Denmark's core strategy just becomes Get the Canal.

Really? No. It doesn't. You’re way over blowing this. It’s double heal on coastal tiles.

 

[pineappledan]

Really? No. It doesn't. You’re way over blowing this. It’s double heal on coastal tiles.

Am I now? The synergy is too real. You either rush the naval wonders, or you go full psycho-killer on whoever did.

that just seems like the obvious best play to me.

 

[XxPun12h3rxX]

You know, I just had a thought. I know that most people don't like civ 6 (with good reason) but I saw a mechanic where naval ships may pillage adjacent coastal tiles. Because thats not a feature in civ 5, and it synergizes amazingly with Denmarks UB (and its neither game breaking and it manages to be historically accurate). If the coding is possible, and we tweak the full heal on naval pillage promotion, this seems like it would work. (Also it synergizes with the viking promotion, doesnt make the naval units absurdly stronger for all eras, and synergizes with the historically accurate aggressive playstyle.)

 

[Rekk]

You know, I just had a thought. I know that most people don't like civ 6 (with good reason) but I saw a mechanic where naval ships may pillage adjacent coastal tiles. Because thats not a feature in civ 5, and it synergizes amazingly with Denmarks UB (and its neither game breaking and it manages to be historically accurate). If the coding is possible, and we tweak the full heal on naval pillage promotion, this seems like it would work. (Also it synergizes with the viking promotion, doesnt make the naval units absurdly stronger for all eras, and synergizes with the historically accurate aggressive playstyle.)

Denmark's land units can already do this in a single turn: start on a coast tile protected by a naval unit, move onto a land tile next to the coast, pillage it, then move back under the naval unit. Is there really a need for a naval unit to raid a coastal land tile abstractly when it's already possible for Denmark to do it in actuality?

 

[Gazebo]

Denmark's land units can already do this in a single turn: start on a coast tile protected by a naval unit, move onto a land tile next to the coast, pillage it, then move back under the naval unit. Is there really a need for a naval unit to raid a coastal land tile abstractly when it's already possible for Denmark to do it in actuality?

The horse says, "neigh!"

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I missed the change where pillage yields go to one city instead of all cities. So in my last game I rushed to runestones and then to 'zerkers, and barely managed to push a mandekalu cavalry rush out of my territory. I finally made it into enemy lands to pillage a tile and...

was very disappointed. :[

I'm sure the change is ultimately for the best, but I definitely miss the faux-global yields.

 

[Rekk]

Since Denmark doesn't actually gain any benefit from conquering or attacking cities anymore, I am absolutely loving playing a tradition Denmark and using scouts and explorers to ravage the coastal lands of a couple of my neighbors, keeping just ahead of their military response. If I can attack them while they're distracted attacking someone else, then I can even rip through their entire countryside. My berserker upgrades have just enough combat strength on pillaged tiles to not die if some of the defensive force catches up to me, and if they can retreat back into my Navy they're pretty much home free and ready to gain all that health back from playing a new section of land. It's super engaging.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Since Denmark doesn't actually gain any benefit from conquering or attacking cities anymore, I am absolutely loving playing a tradition Denmark and using scouts and explorers to ravage the coastal lands of a couple of my neighbors, keeping just ahead of their military response. If I can attack them while they're distracted attacking someone else, then I can even rip through their entire countryside. My berserker upgrades have just enough combat strength on pillaged tiles to not die if some of the defensive force catches up to me, and if they can retreat back into my Navy they're pretty much home free and ready to gain all that health back from playing a new section of land. It's super engaging.

That sounds so goddamn fun.