Design a Wonder contest (public poll)

[Grey Fox]

what is the princess rule ??

One of Kael's FfH Design rules:

The princess rule: nothing that would appear on the walls on a 6 year old girl can be in FfH.

 

[Calavente]

I am not sure I understand it..
as I read it : nothing that is too "happy, rosy and lovable" can be in FfH.. but mirror mirror is mostly a very dark magical artifact..

or maybe I don't understand "to appear on the walls on..."

 

[zxcvbnm]

I like letting the Kurio work a 4th tile idea to make it still attractive to them. Otherwise their only real reason is to keep from allowing anyone else to build it. That also sounds like the easiest way to implement anything to make it also attractive to them.

Have you ever counted how much that would be?

60 tiles
*max 5 food/tile
=300 food
>150 pop with STW even as the health drops very low


And other topics: more than one will clearly be added, it seems like 3 of this poll based on current voting situation, and similarly from the units poll.
Event poll seems to have 2 winning ones

 

[onedreamer]

I think the general feeling among the team (certainly mine) is that Thousand Slums should be extended to all Civs, regardless of alignment. I mean, we're talking dark fantasy here. Even in Real Life, the "good guys" have some kind of slum: Trailer parks, council housing, tenements, bidonvilles...

well, I voted based on the description of the wonder, which says "evil only". Now we could say that also that FoL wonder could be allowed to any religion, and so on. We either vote on what is written or we don't... it's not correct to vote based on what the wonder COULD be modified into. In the end I think that this contest should have been handled in the opposite way: we the players should have chosen the finalists and the staff the winner. The reason seems evident when you see how this wonder which is clearly unbalanced is winning easily: IMO people have voted on what they would like more based on their play style rather than on the most balanced and useful for the mod.

 

[Sureshot]

The reason seems evident when you see how this wonder which is clearly unbalanced is winning easily: IMO people have voted on what they would like more based on their play style rather than on the most balanced and useful for the mod.

ya thats how it seems for sure. the worst part of it is people will be able to try out all the sick calabim sprawling type strategies they want with unrestricted leaders anyways.

 

[Randolph]

IMO people have voted on what they would like more based on their play style rather than on the most balanced and useful for the mod.

I agree that as written it's imbalanced, and therefore I didn't vote for it, but it probably could be balanced. It doesn't state the tech requirement or cost, which alone could probably balance it. You could obviously add some nasty modifiers, like +10 . There's probably plenty of other, more creative, ways to balance it.

 

[Ekolite]

Yeah, I didn't put in a tech req or cost, it should definatley have a very high cost in , should also be quite a late tec to balance it. I disagree with whoever said you should vote based on what I said. Many of these wonders are unbalanced, you should vote for whichever one you voted for based on the effects of the wonder once it is balanced.

 

[xienwolf]

Haven't tried unrestricted Leaders before, but couldn't anyone just load up the Kurio leader in the Calabim Civ and still have sprawling cities and vampires?

IMO: Mudflation > Balance. Restricting everything to the point of near useless is not as fun as making powerful things to counter other, equally powerful things.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm sure that would work, if sprawling is implemented the same way in Shadow as it was pre-BtS (it isn't in .24 or .25, so I haven't gotten to test this yet.)

 

[Randolph]

Haven't tried unrestricted Leaders before, but couldn't anyone just load up the Kurio leader in the Calabim Civ and still have sprawling cities and vampires?

IMO: Mudflation > Balance. Restricting everything to the point of near useless is not as fun as making powerful things to counter other, equally powerful things.

Well unrestricted leaders is a varient that's simply going to be unbalanced no matter what, particularly in FfH with the highly unique nature of the civs. That's no reason to allow the main game to be unbalanced.

 

[Ekolite]

It would work if you played Cardith as leaderof thecalabim i think.

 

[Broken Hawk]

I voted Mirrors Mirror, as long as the +1 unhappy is applied to any city in the world except where it's built. My comments on other Wonders:

Arcane Academy : a bit too much of everything...
City of a Thousand Slums: this is a nice idea, but I don't like the restriction to evil civs, by the description it should be at least allowed to neutral civs at least. The main concern though, as has been pointed, is the added power it can have with STW or some other things... would be probably a bit too much. I don't see a need to help evil civs right now.
Conclave of Blades: I actually like this idea, its only flaw was to be second in my list :/
Great Brewery: Not a bad idea but not as interesting as other proposals.
Pan's Meadow: Definitely don't like it because it is limited to FoL and because forest tiles with FoL don't really need another bonus !
Port Royale: A good idea but like the Brewery not as attractive !
Sacrifice to Bhall: Again something prevented to Good civs... not only there has been no idea to help Good guys vs AC and Evil guys, it seems Evil should be helped even more ! Aside from this, isn't Bhall dead ?

Reasons I would vote none of the above. Sorry.

On second thought, 1000 slums would be ok if all civs had access...

 

[Pandemonis]

Vote for your favorite entry. Voting remains open until December 9th.

Arcane Academy
by zxcvbnm

Spoiler :

Requires: Arcane lore, lvl 6 arcane unit
800 Hammers
+10% production speed with each mana sphere the builder has access to
+3 great sage, unlimited sage or 3[?] sage
(+1 free reagents, the training of the Academy allows the mages to create their own reagents)
(+2 Culture)
doubles the rate arcane units gain xp inside the city, (very valuable for getting high-level archmages)
+3 Unhealthy because of the dangerous residue of magical experiments left around, (you know, the mages aren't very good in cleaning up their mess...)​

An interesting wonder, but the free resource should be handled by Guild rather than by wonder - especially in the term of something as fundamental as Reagents. The other parts (extra XP, free sages for extra unhealthiness) are quite balanced. Doesnt seem like something the AI cannot handle.


City of a Thousand Slums
by Kol.7

Spoiler :

-20% Culture
+20% maintainance

Evil civs only

Allows the city it is built in to access the third ring of tiles around it (ala Sprawling trait)

Allows a civ to create a very large and powerful town. Would work well any civ with god-king if the slums were built in the capital, especially the calabim who I kind of had in mind when I was thinking about this.​

As mentioned a lot already, the alignment is just breaking the game for something that needs to be fixed. Getting one super-city for non-Kuriotates, or an Uber-City for them, is surely interesting both in terms of gameplay and lore, and with a Good-only, malus on production and science, it would make an interesting challenge for a Super-GP city. Anyways, as is, just plain broken - even though seducing indeed...

Conclave of Blades
by TravellingHat

Spoiler :

A college for training wizards in the arts of warfare against enemies both magical and mundane, though such lessons take time (hence the whacking production penalty!).

Tech Required: Warfare
Other requirements: Mage Guild, Training Yard
Double Production: Enchantment Mana
Cost: 800
GPP: Great Commander +2
Specialists: Can run one sage

Edit: Military production times doubled. Would that be -50%?
New adepts built in this city receive Enchanted Blade, Magic Resistance and become eligible for weapon upgrades.
New melee units built in this city receive Enchanted Blade.​

While I really like the idea, it's very unbalancing the game - all adepts (or is that arcane units ?) get lots of bonus, while as is, it only encourages to not build any melee units. Seeing how the AI (cannot) handle its Arcane units, it seems like it cannot handle this.

The Holy Ale Great Brewery
by Pandemonis

Spoiler :

"Beer is living proof that [insert god's name here] loves us and wants us to be happy." Dwarf saying (Actually a genuine quote from Benjamin Franklin)

Requirement:
Crafting, city must have a brewery.
Cost: 700
+2 Culture, +4 Gold
+2 GPP (Merchant)
Provide a Brewery in each city of the civilization, regardless of access to river.​

Not the sexiest idea on Erebus, but simple, early, balanced, tho powerful wonder, and it sounds like the AI can easily understand it. Plus, it's got a Monty Python reference, too.
(I hear it would unbalance Dwarves, I might not completely disagree, but RoK is not breaking Dwarves like FoL is breaking Ljosalfar, so I'd say that there is room for that kind of bonus).

Mirror Mirror
by formless blob

Spoiler :

This scrying mirror allows the owner to search his empire for the fairest maidens. The magic of the mirror is such, that any maidens found are spellbound to head to their new master. These maiden can then be sold to the local nobility for great profit.

Cost: 800
Prerequisite: Omniscience
Effect: +3 Happy in this city, +1 Unhappy in all other cities you own. The revenue created is equal to +1 per city you own.

Balance suggestion: To make it more powerfull, the bad effect could include, or only apply to, enemy cities.​

Despite the Princess rule, an interesting tweak. Still, too late to be of any interest. If very early on the tech tree, (and much cheaper), it would be tremendous tho: consistent and early boost of happiness for one of your city, with the assurance that it is going to be more of a problem as you develop...
As is, too late to be relevant; but thumbs up tho.

Pan's Meadow
by Rex rgis of Ter

Spoiler :

Cost 250
+5 Culture
+2 GPP (Great Artist)

Requires Way of the Forest, Fellowship of Leaves State Religion

The Meadow brings great Joy to the Lands surrrounding the Meadow. Every Forest, Ancient Forest, etc., gains +1 Hammer.​

I really like the lore idea, but the gameplay proposition is just indecent. FoL do not need any bonus already, even if it is meant for only one of their city. The cost/benefit is ridiculously advantageous, and the +1 hammer is just too powerful (FoL+Elves+Ancient Forest+Pan's Meadow=crazy).

Port Royal
by Frozen Vomit

Spoiler :

(can have any name actually - if there is a legendary harbor like this in ffh lore.)

Requires: Blasting Powder
?
+2 Culture
+2 foreign trade routes
+100% trade income in this city
+2 GPP (merchant)

+2 relations with civs who have foreign trade
-2 with civs that have mercantilism

City can not be blockaded, enemy and hidden nationality ships take damage when they are in the cities fat cross.

(Gives line of sight to every city with a harbor when the civ uses foreign trade. Not sure about that one...)

"Look at it - a marvel of civilization. Ships are coming in and bring goods and rumors from all seven (?) oceans. On a busy day like this you could surely think that this is the center of Erebus." - Geert ?, Harbormaster

"High and insurmountable are it's walls and far roar it's cannonballs. Many a proud ship was lost in the calm water of this bay - fortresses like this clearly mean the end of piracy" - ?, Lanun Captain

Great idea, especially for the Lore and my personal like of the Lanuns. However, +2 trade routes + +100% trade makes it already huge (ie. = two wonders combined). Add blockade and you end up with an uber wonder. It's also a pretty late one, and Id like to see more earlier on. While the diplomacy modifiers makes it tasty, Id really prefer its power singled out to blockade and accessible way earlier.

Sacrifice to Bhall
by CXDamian

Spoiler :

900 Hammers
Requires: Summoning
Requires: Neutral or Evil Alignment
Grants peace to barbarians for 15 turns(if not already at peace, if so ignored)
Spawns 1 random Planar Gate unit(barbarian) in each of the players cities, with mobility 1​

I like the idea of a peace-with-barbarian ritual, and the combination with random spawns. I think the major support for such a ritual is the reason this entry is not getting much votes.

Regarding the post saying that we should vote on the general idea rather than the exact implementation, Id just like to say that I voted on the exact game mechanics proposed, as I find most of them unbalanced

 

[onedreamer]

I disagree with whoever said you should vote based on what I said. Many of these wonders are unbalanced, you should vote for whichever one you voted for based on the effects of the wonder once it is balanced.

Could you now also enlighten us on how can we vote on wonders once they are balanced if we don't know HOW are they balanced ?? To this extent, let's propose Wonders names, the most interesting will win. We will take care later of the effects and balance...............

 

[Xuenay]

I find it interesting that people are saying that restricting the City of a Thousand Slums to Evil civilizations would make the Evil ones unbalanced. So far, I had thought that restricting the Altar Victory to Good and Neutral civs gave the Evil ones a serious handicap and the City would go towards fixing that - but then again, I'm a builder.

Even if there wasn't an imbalance, I like the thought of there being more things differentiating between the alignments. Being Good or Evil should have more effects than just a diplomacy modifier and access to a couple of civics.

 

[onedreamer]

you shouldn't balance having a 1 more victory option with making achieving ALL the other 5 easier. That's rather an imbalance.

 

[Xuenay]

you shouldn't balance having a 1 more victory option with making achieving ALL the other 5 easier. That's rather an imbalance.

Depends on how much easier...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I never allow an Altar victory, but still think that evil civs are at a disadvantage for not having the altar. Its bonus isn't winning the game, it's making priests extremely productive.

 

[Grey Fox]

I never allow an Altar victory, but still think that evil civs are at a disadvantage for not having the altar. Its bonus isn't winning the game, it's making priests extremely productive.

How about the +1 STR to disciples and +happy and +10 xp to disciples that can upgrade to Recon?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yeah, that too (but the +1 holy strength isn't just for disciples, every unit gets it, and can regain it by waiting a turn in the city)