RFormica
Imperator Silvae
So... Maybe:
-Extra combat strength when fighting (idk what)
-Free builder upon settling cities; extra production for builders
-Something like gain +15 combat strength within 10 turns of founding a city, etc.
-Others?
Design your own Civ VI civ
- Thread starter Morningcalm
- Start date
So... Maybe:
-Extra combat strength when fighting (idk what)
-Free builder upon settling cities; extra production for builders
-Something like gain +15 combat strength within 10 turns of founding a city, etc.
-Others?
I wouldn't mix the combat bonus and the city founding bonus to influence each other. Doing them like two abilities in one would be better.
Amrunril
Emperor
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- Feb 7, 2015
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Haida
Unique Ability: Land’s Bounty: +1 Housing from Camp and Fishing Boat improvements. All luxury and bonus resources that provide food provide 1 additional food.
This ability allows the Haida to construct large population centers without necessarily relying on large scale agriculture. It also encourages them to look at the map differently than other civs, with more emphasis on resource access and less (comparatively speaking) on good farming locations.
Unique Infrastructure: Crest Pole (Monument Replacement): Each city that constructs this building gains the benefit of an additional pantheon belief of your choice. You may select beliefs claimed by other civilizations but must select a different belief for each city.
As one of the most iconic examples of Pacific Northwest art and culture, I wanted not only to include totem poles but also to give them an ability more distinctive than a simple faith/culture boost. This design highlights the unique character of individual poles, and, like the civ ability, it encourages Haida to look at the map differently than other civs. Furthermore, it allows the creation of cities with unique specialties, whether in utilizing specific resource types, building units/wonders, generating great people or even serving as strategic healing positions.
Unique Unit: Sea Canoe (Galley Replacement): This unit cannot be seen except when adjacent to it. Traders plundered by this unit are transferred to your control rather than being destroyed, unless they would exceed your trade route capacity.
While I didn’t give the civ a primary military focus, the UU was a good opportunity to reference the coastal raiding culture (I also took inspiration from the fact that a masted ship appears over the horizon sooner than a flatter ship like a canoe). It acts as something of a hybrid between Melee and Raider class naval units, and the trader ability allows the Haida to invest in an early fleet with less impact on their economic development than other civs would face.
Leader Ability: Architectural Craftsmanship: Gain .5 culture per adjacent forest tile for each of your granaries or district buildings that provides housing. Upon entering the modern era, gain tourism as well.
This ability further references the Pacific Northwest artistic tradition to create a culture civ with a distinctly different focus than Great Artist civs like Russia and Kongo or wonder civs like France. The housing specification is primarily a way of limiting the number of buildings it applies to without individually listing them, but I think it does generally reflect the sorts of buildings you might expect to be more decorated, and it adds a very subtle push towards housing/tall cities and towards building encampments.
Unique Ability: Land’s Bounty: +1 Housing from Camp and Fishing Boat improvements. All luxury and bonus resources that provide food provide 1 additional food.
This ability allows the Haida to construct large population centers without necessarily relying on large scale agriculture. It also encourages them to look at the map differently than other civs, with more emphasis on resource access and less (comparatively speaking) on good farming locations.
Unique Infrastructure: Crest Pole (Monument Replacement): Each city that constructs this building gains the benefit of an additional pantheon belief of your choice. You may select beliefs claimed by other civilizations but must select a different belief for each city.
As one of the most iconic examples of Pacific Northwest art and culture, I wanted not only to include totem poles but also to give them an ability more distinctive than a simple faith/culture boost. This design highlights the unique character of individual poles, and, like the civ ability, it encourages Haida to look at the map differently than other civs. Furthermore, it allows the creation of cities with unique specialties, whether in utilizing specific resource types, building units/wonders, generating great people or even serving as strategic healing positions.
Unique Unit: Sea Canoe (Galley Replacement): This unit cannot be seen except when adjacent to it. Traders plundered by this unit are transferred to your control rather than being destroyed, unless they would exceed your trade route capacity.
While I didn’t give the civ a primary military focus, the UU was a good opportunity to reference the coastal raiding culture (I also took inspiration from the fact that a masted ship appears over the horizon sooner than a flatter ship like a canoe). It acts as something of a hybrid between Melee and Raider class naval units, and the trader ability allows the Haida to invest in an early fleet with less impact on their economic development than other civs would face.
Leader Ability: Architectural Craftsmanship: Gain .5 culture per adjacent forest tile for each of your granaries or district buildings that provides housing. Upon entering the modern era, gain tourism as well.
This ability further references the Pacific Northwest artistic tradition to create a culture civ with a distinctly different focus than Great Artist civs like Russia and Kongo or wonder civs like France. The housing specification is primarily a way of limiting the number of buildings it applies to without individually listing them, but I think it does generally reflect the sorts of buildings you might expect to be more decorated, and it adds a very subtle push towards housing/tall cities and towards building encampments.
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@Amrunril Overall, I like it, but I have two suggestions. First, I'd change "totem pole" to "crest pole." I know, they're popularly called totem poles, but no totems were involved--a totem being an animal that a group of people supposedly descend from; PNW crests were much more akin to a medieval coat of arms--I don't think anyone speculated the Welsh descended from dragons, after all. I love the ability you attached to it, though. Second, the Haida were more traders than raiders (it was the "Washington Indians," as the Tlingit call the Coast Salish and Wakashan, who chiefly did the raiding and slaving); perhaps make the sea canoe cheap, fragile, available from the start, and able to go on ocean tiles. Since the Haida were traders, maybe work in some bonus trade routes for them from some other source--perhaps for every city center adjacent to the coast, which would incentivize placing settlements in the same place the people of the PNW did pretty much without exception.
Amrunril
Emperor
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Thanks for the feedback. I went ahead and changed the Totem Pole name. As for the raiding/trading, I went with this design primarily because it was something that would fit in the unique unit slot, and I thought the infrastructure and civ/leader ability slots were relatively full, but it would definitely be possible to create a different version of the civ (or an alternate leader) with more of a trade focus.
Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
Re: the Haida idea, I see the leader bonus, but what leader would you suggest?
They work, but I still think Sheiyksh of the Tlingit is a better option. The civ design would be the same--Haida and Tlingit cultures are quite distinct, but in terms of mechanical bonuses I think they would translate the same. On the other hand, Sean Bean could probably pronounce "Haida" correctly, whereas he'd probably pronounce "Tlingit" with a T instead of a K.
So the correct pronunciation is Klingit? Tlingik? Klingik?They work, but I still think Sheiyksh of the Tlingit is a better option. The civ design would be the same--Haida and Tlingit cultures are quite distinct, but in terms of mechanical bonuses I think they would translate the same. On the other hand, Sean Bean could probably pronounce "Haida" correctly, whereas he'd probably pronounce "Tlingit" with a T instead of a K.
Amrunril
Emperor
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Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
Well, at least the Haida have actual figures who can be perceived as leaders for their civilization. They are not, as Zaarin would have the Tlingit be, led by someone who was more a title rather than a man.
Sheiyksh I of the Tlingit. What was this leader known for? What did this leader accomplish? What agenda would this leader have? There is such a scant record on this leader, and his impact on world history so very tiny (if we are talking about Gush X’een), that I can't possibly see how Tlingit would end up in Civilization. The Olmecs led by a stone faced chieftain would be only slightly worse at that rate.
Sheiyksh I of the Tlingit. What was this leader known for? What did this leader accomplish? What agenda would this leader have? There is such a scant record on this leader, and his impact on world history so very tiny (if we are talking about Gush X’een), that I can't possibly see how Tlingit would end up in Civilization. The Olmecs led by a stone faced chieftain would be only slightly worse at that rate.
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/kliŋgɪt/ "cling-git" or /kliŋkɪt/ "cling-kit"--though ironically in Tlingit it's actually /ɬiŋkɪt/. There are so many "tl" sounds in the PNW that the English-speaking explorers just threw one in there where there wasn't one.
I think it'd be a shame to include the Haida or the Tlingit and not feature their spectacular armour (about which I learned on this very website: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-armour-thread.511587/page-8#post-13512659).
I think a Warrior replacement makes the most sense, and I like the idea of a raider focus rather than just promoting a militaristic style of play like the Eagle Warrior.
Perhaps they can embark from the beginning of the game and get bonus movement when disembarking. However they don't have a boosted combat strength like the Berserker. Their armour gives them resistance to ranged units, which lets them pillage with more impunity.
Spoiler Tlingit Armour :
I think a Warrior replacement makes the most sense, and I like the idea of a raider focus rather than just promoting a militaristic style of play like the Eagle Warrior.
Perhaps they can embark from the beginning of the game and get bonus movement when disembarking. However they don't have a boosted combat strength like the Berserker. Their armour gives them resistance to ranged units, which lets them pillage with more impunity.
Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
Frankly, I think given the scant record for the Haida/Tlingit and their really minor importance on the world stage, it would be a shame to take a major civilization slot away from a more deserving Native American group. Yea, the Haida and Tlingit, like the Eskimos/Aborigines/Pygmies and any number of other groups are interesting culturally, and would diversify the game's cultural representations, but that doesn't warrant including them as a major civilization in Civilization VI, particularly with the agenda system being what it is, and given the scant record for Haida and Tlingit leaders. I think they are better included as citystates for now, perhaps with abilities alluding to the fur trade or something more culturally native.
I would rather the Civilization slot went to a differently group, whether a different Native American entity (the Iroquois Confederacy) or a civilization never before represented, like the Ashanti or Benin, who had empires.
Nonetheless, I am glad there I see interest in the Haida and Tlingit, as they are interesting; I just don't think they fit as a major civilization.
I would rather the Civilization slot went to a differently group, whether a different Native American entity (the Iroquois Confederacy) or a civilization never before represented, like the Ashanti or Benin, who had empires.
Nonetheless, I am glad there I see interest in the Haida and Tlingit, as they are interesting; I just don't think they fit as a major civilization.
@Morningcalm I get where you're coming from, but is influence on other regions the only metric for inclusion? The PNW natives achieved a level of cultural and social sophistication that is best described as medieval, which is quite fascinating given that they were hunter-gatherers technologically; culturally they had no equals in North America. Also I don't think they fit well for a fur trade mechanic. They dealt in sea otter furs, but they weren't really a part of the more massive fur trade in the interior that was dominated by the Cree (who I'd also love to see as a civ). If they were included as a city-state, a crest pole UI would be the most likely suzerain bonus in my eyes.
Yeah, I don't think City-States really do justice as cultural representations. Unique Improvements (and potentially units - a Swiss Pikeman mercenary for instance) go someway, but there are just too many different aspects that you don't want to reduce to a +1 faith or +1 culture on a tile.
I agree that influence on other regions should not be the criterion for a civ. It should be influence on its own region, and the Haida were very influential and powerful in the Pacific North-West. And the same goes for African empires, most of which did not really influence other regions, but were still important in their own right.
The criteria for a civilization should be:
1. Being an important regional power during civ's height
2. Being an actual civilization, a nation with its own established culture and identity
3. Having good leaders that can be incorporated into the game
4. Having unique components, UUs, UIs, etc...
5. Having a list of settlements for a proper city list
I believe the Haida answer to all five criteria.
The criteria for a civilization should be:
1. Being an important regional power during civ's height
2. Being an actual civilization, a nation with its own established culture and identity
3. Having good leaders that can be incorporated into the game
4. Having unique components, UUs, UIs, etc...
5. Having a list of settlements for a proper city list
I believe the Haida answer to all five criteria.
Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
I never said influence on others was the only factor in picking a major Civ. Having at least *somewhat* well attested leaders is of vital import in Civ VI, given its agenda system for interacting with leaders, and the inclusion of individualized but leader abilities.
Also, I disagree with IgorS' statement above as to Haida meeting his five criteria. The Haida do not have "good leaders that can be incorporated into the game". Show me where such people are.
As far as Haida influence goes, how populated was their territory? How much did they interact with people's who were not Haida? I think we would be overstating Haida influence by including them in the game. For good or ill, most nearly all civilizations included in the past were major regional powers, influential beyond their borders (Venice, Huns, Polynesia, etc), or has major climactic interactions with others (Zulu, Aztecs, Iroquois). Haida lack such interactions.
As far as citystates go, many civilizations and nations are represented via citystates. Maybe this is too small a representation in your eyes, but having the Haida as a major civ in Civilization VI would be overstating their influence, let alone their interaction with others.
Also, I disagree with IgorS' statement above as to Haida meeting his five criteria. The Haida do not have "good leaders that can be incorporated into the game". Show me where such people are.
As far as Haida influence goes, how populated was their territory? How much did they interact with people's who were not Haida? I think we would be overstating Haida influence by including them in the game. For good or ill, most nearly all civilizations included in the past were major regional powers, influential beyond their borders (Venice, Huns, Polynesia, etc), or has major climactic interactions with others (Zulu, Aztecs, Iroquois). Haida lack such interactions.
As far as citystates go, many civilizations and nations are represented via citystates. Maybe this is too small a representation in your eyes, but having the Haida as a major civ in Civilization VI would be overstating their influence, let alone their interaction with others.
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