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Design your own Civ VI civ

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Morningcalm, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. N7Zebracakes

    N7Zebracakes Chieftain

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    Venice

    UA: Serenissima

    • Cannot found new cities.

    • +GPT for Commercial and Harbor districts.

    • Commercial+Harbor adjacency provides +Culture.

    • Harbor and Commercial districts provide twice the number of trade routes, each district improvement provides additional routes.

    • Can purchase districts with Merchant of Venice. If no districts can be purchased, convert into Gold. District cap is not limited

    • May purchase units/buildings of cities a trade route is currently established with, depending on districts present in that city.

    • Earns envoys at +33%

    • City center starts with ancient walls
    Unique Unit: Great Galleass

    Unique District: Rialto

    • Must be adjacent to City Center

    • Provides +points for Merchant of Venice (no idea what it would be based on. One per era+once when 50% of era tech civics have been researched? One spawns when envoys are earned?)

    • Provides +1 copy of unique resources within civ borders.
     
  2. AnonymousSpeed

    AnonymousSpeed Pink Plastic Army Man

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    I like the whole "Not Using Justinian" thing, since I'm all about those new faces.
    Hippodrome is a decent building choice, but since there's only one of them I'm not sure how much I support it. A more interesting effect might be a super dumbed down Coliseum / early zoo, with a much smaller culture and amenity boost to cities within 6 tiles.
    It's an interesting take on the Varangian Guard as well, I kind of like it.

    For a more complete idea of how I was thinking of making Byzantium under Basil II, you can click here.

    Yeah, admittedly I don't like that part, especially since Basil's empire, while it reclaimed a lot of territory, wasn't all that large in civ terms.

    This is a neat effect, I like the idea of districts getting adjacency from a unique improvement so the player can min-max the bonus more. I'm not sure if this execution of Polders is the best way to execute that idea (since you don't have a ton of freedom on where you can place them but few restrictions beyond that, which mitigates the min-maxing you can do with it).

    Interesting. I actually quite liked City State Venice in Civ5, I'd be glad to see a return to that idea.
    Did you have a leader in mind?
    With how Great People work, I'm not entirely sure if unique great people would function in Civ6, to be honest.
     
  3. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Chieftain

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    Just a random comment on Byzantium--Basil II with the Varangian Guard unique unit would be cool; especially in terms of designing an ability for the Guard that differentiates it from the Berserker. Given that many Norsemen joined the Guard to gain wealth, something like gold from conquered cities and units might work. (Could also synergize with the stalwart, spartan-lifestyle of the Macedonian Basil II, who kept a full imperial treasury and scorned wealth and scholasticism for himself). The Varangian Guard would be a welcome historical inclusion too since Byzantium at large has a long history of using mercenaries and foreign soldiers (including Goths commanded by Belisarius and Huns commanded by Mondous, grandson of Attila, to kill Nika Rioters).

    Though Basil II might work for Civ VI, I'm a big fan of Justinian (ambitious dreamer) and Theodora (a once-courtesan who nevertheless had much actual religious concern, and one of the few female rulers that really could make sense as a sole ruler, given that, like Amanitore and Dyah Gitarja, she co-ruled capably).

    Re: a potential agenda for Justinian, I don't necessarily think wanting to conquer those with his religion would work gameplay wise. It would mean he hates those who spread different religions and those who he spreads religion too, and if Byzantium is to vie for a religious victory (which she should), then there needs to be some positive for having his religion and following it (historically, Justinian frequently fought on-Christians, also liked having Christian allies, which included efforts to create an alliance with Amalasuntha, an Arian Christian Gothic queen with Roman virtues).
     
  4. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Chieftain

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    I like the idea of the basilica as that was my first option, but it felt more like it could go to a Renaissance Italy instead. But now that I think about it, it makes since and I like your idea better while taking off a religious art slot in temple and put it with the basilica. As for the agenda maybe it would be better if he tries to have the largest army and will dislike anyone who does have a larger army than him. I don't know why I didn't think of that in the first place.:o
     
  5. AnonymousSpeed

    AnonymousSpeed Pink Plastic Army Man

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    I would disagree. Justinian is most famous for his legal reforms and for retaking huge tracks of formerly Roman territory, so a domination victory seems most fitting for him (though I did personally imagine Byzantium as a more all-rounder).
    Not every civilization needs to have such high "u r diferent religion denunce u" flavors (I am assuming flavors as well as Agendas are in play here), and one civilization who approaches religious diplomacy in a totally different way would be fine. It would also give the darn Crusade belief some frickin' use.
    Lastly, Agendas don't need to be 100% accurate to the leader's actions. Yeah, Trajan likes big empires, but he also went to war with the pretty big Parthian Empire and, though I'm not an expert on his life, probably didn't beat up every little guy he saw.

    Eh, I was never entirely sure of my infrastructure for Byzantium, to be honest.
    I personally don't feel that agenda is very interesting, but hey, they can't all be winners.
     
  6. N7Zebracakes

    N7Zebracakes Chieftain

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    This was actually copied from an old reddit post from shortly after the Civ6 launch. In hindsight, I think they're much better suited as a powerful CS for this game, despite how much I loved them as a Civ in 5. My love for them makes me want to make them unique and powerful, so as a City State:

    • Venice cannot have a Suzerain. Instead, each envoy generates points per turn for a Merchant of Venice, a unique unit that allows several functions. Only 3 MoV available per era.
      • Merchant of Venice can found a Rialto district in a city. Rialto must be adjacent to a city center, provides an extra trade route (+1 more per era since founded), and +1 adjacency bonus for any adjacent districts. Provides +Great Admiral points for adjacent harbours.
      • Merchant of Venice can levy a CS military that you are suzerain of, or is neutral, without your own funds.
      • Merchant of Venice can purchase a Great Person of 1000 G or less

    That out of the way, if they WERE a leader, a few aspects of my original post would need to be modified, I feel like. Civ6 just is not suited for a tall playstyle.
     
  7. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Chieftain

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    Assyrian Empire (Assyria)
    Leader: Ashurbanipal
    Agenda: Collector-Loves to acquire more Great Works than any other player. Dislikes civilizations who acquire more Great Works than him.
    LA: Royal Library-Provides an extra slot of Great work at the palace and libraries gain a great work of writing slot. Combat strength against opponent if they have great work.
    UA: Iron Age Warfare- Iron is revealed at the beginning of the game. Only one copy of a strategic resource is required to produce a unit.
    UU: Siege Engine- (Replaces the battering ram) Has abilities of both Battering Ram and Siege Tower.
    UI: Lamassu- Provides faith and gold. Combat strength when adjacent to city center and to all units who pass it.

    Iroquois Empire (Iroquois)
    Leader: Jigonhsasee
    Agenda: Mother of Nations- Likes to be allied to as much civilizations as possible. Dislikes civilizations who will not want to make an alliance.
    LA: Peace Gathering-May make an alliance with another power at Political Philosophy. Receives major warmonger penalties when declaring war but may make peace faster.
    UA: Deohako- Farms provide extra food if 3 built are adjacent to each other starting with Irrigation. Woods also provide extra food.
    UU: Mohawk Scout (replaces Scout) Has ranger promotion at start. More combat strength.
    UI: Longhouse- +3 Housing and gain an envoy when built.

    Mayan Empire (Maya)
    Leader: Pakal
    Agenda: Ajaw- Likes civilizations who produce much faith along with science.
    LA: Inscription Temples- Temples can hold a great work of writing slot that also provides science when writing is researched.
    UA: High Priesthood- Defeated units provide faith. Holy Site Specialists provide science as well.
    UU: Atlatlist (replaces Archer)
    UB: Triadic Pyramid (replaces Shrine) provides extra faith as well as science when Holy Site is next to rainforest.

    Portuguese Empire (Portugal)
    Leader: Joao II
    Agenda: Discoverer- Likes to be the first to reveal new areas of the map and control most water tiles. Dislike Civs who reveal more of the map than him and control more water.
    LA: The Navigator Nephew- Naval units cost less to build and receive +1 movement. Reconnaissance units get double experience.
    UA: Mare Clausum- Trade routes in your borders cannot be pillaged even on water. Culture bomb when a Feitora is built.
    UU: Nau (replaces Caravel) Has greater sight. Produces gold when built.
    UI: Feitora- Built on Coastal Water. Yields Gold and Production for every adjacent luxury resource. + 4 Fortified Strength.

    I thought about it and edited Joao's agenda to make it not as redundant as the hidden agenda explorer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017 at 10:40 PM
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  8. Phrozen

    Phrozen Chieftain

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    That is the terrain where Polders are made since they are recovered land with dikes and windmill Archimedes screws acting as pumps. They are able to be built on the Dutch preferred start location, coasts and turn otherwise not great tiles into decent ones. I see the Dutch as the premier economic civ from the mid-game on establishing trading posts through the world and using their UU to defend their city state allies or use their city state allies as a staging ground for an invasion of another civ.
     
  9. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    I like it except for two things: First, the UI, which is just too similar in every respect to Egypt's sphinx. I'd replace them with Walls of Nineveh (akin to Civ5's Walls of Babylon), which would be aesthetically appealing and unique; would also pair nicely with an Ishtar Gate wonder. Second, the UA fits the Hittites much better than Assyria; iron had been around for some time by the time Assyria rose to prominence. I'd go with something that emphasizes their reputation for brutality in warfare, perhaps gaining culture and faith for conquering cities (like Alexander's science for conquests).
     
  10. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Chieftain

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    Formerly Roman land didn't necessarily share his religion. He did not war with Persia, and the Ostrogoths because they shared his religion. Wanting to restore the empire to its former size has little to do with religion and more to do with the territories of the former Roman Empire. Byzantium has always been known for both domination and religion, and it's perfectly possible for Justinian to want to spread religion for a religious victory in my view--else, why all the Christian wonder construction? Why the internal debate between Theodora and Justinian re: Christian sects?

    Spreading religion is already combative enough, I think making it boost an enemy's willingness to war with you just makes things worse from a gameplay perspective. Of course agendas don't need to be 100% accurate but I never said they had to be.

    Yeah I think lamassu are perhaps too similar visually and gameplay wise to the sphinx as envisioned. Walls of Nineveh could work (though Babylon if introduced would probably have some UI relating to the Walls of Babylon). A royal library like could work as well (since the Library of Alexandria has taken the Library of Nineveh for the library slot). Assyria was also known for shipping out the population from conquered territory in brutal forced marches. But also well known for being masters of siege warfare.

    As to the other Assyrians suggestions, I think a combat bonus against those with Great Writing works well due to the relative rarity of Great Works early on and in view of Ashurbanipal's thirst to collect such in his life. Maybe he gives you +diplomacy positive modifier points for giving him Great Works of Writing in trade?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 2:57 AM
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  11. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Chieftain

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    I agree with the UI, I just wasn't too sure what to put and I thought a Lamassu made the most since and tried to differentiate it. I have avoided Wall replacements because it seems like they would just get replaced by Medieval walls. I might not be too keen on the history but did the Hittites use iron for warfare at all? I know they discovered how to use iron to make tools but I thought that it was Assyria who started using them for their weapons. Any case, I can remove that you can get iron from the start.

    I already gave Babylon stronger walls with their UA and an Edubba as their Library replacement. This was one of the hardest infrastructure to come up with as I wanted to make Assyria different from Babylon. I also considered a Menagerie but not sure how it would be implemented. I guess an Arena replacement but act like an early Zoo to help with early war weariness problems.
     
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  12. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    Yes, they did. Two things gave the Hittites a huge edge in conquering the region: iron weapons and better chariots. But tech spreads (something I wish would somehow find its way into Civ--the religious pressure model would actually work really well for tech diffusion), so soon the Hittites were back to being outclassed by the traditional centers of power in Mesopotamia and Egypt--even though they had to import their iron from Nubia, Anatolia, and Iran. Iron tools had existed in small quantities since the Late Bronze Age and were nothing new, though Hittite ironworking techniques made them cheaper.
     
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  13. clapyourhands

    clapyourhands Chieftain

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    This mod civ is already finished in terms of coding, its just the art that's left. I'm not great with numbers though and would love some feedback.

    The Tongva


    Leader: Toypurina

    LA: Martyr of the Valley

    Units receive a +10 defensive bonus while on their home continent. When targeted by a declaration of war, gain 25% Culture for 20 turns.

    Agenda: No Trespassers

    Likes civilizations that stay close to home and don't interfere overseas. Dislikes civilizations that settle on or spread religion to her home continent.

    UA: Golden Coast

    Embarked civilian units gain +1 Movement per active Trade Route. Intracontinental domestic trade routes gain +2 Food; intracontinental international trade routes gain +2 Gold and +2 Culture.

    UU: Ti'at

    Replaces the Scout. Is a naval unit. Has extra sight and recieives bonus movement and strength while on coastal tiles. Can improve maritime resources.

    UI: Ki

    Can be built on Marsh, flat grassland, or flat plains and provides 1 Housing. Provides the same bonuses as a farm on flat featureless terrain, but does not improve with subsequent technologies. Provides +3 Food and +2 Gold when built on a Marsh, or +2 Food when built adjacent to a Marsh. Also provides +2 Gold if built adjacent to the coast.

    Playstyle

    Strong bonuses focused on trade and coastal settlements, but not island settlements. Encouraged to stay on one continent and spread all along its coast; civilian embarked units receive bonus movement, allowing Settlers and Builders to quickly outmaneuver other civs and barbs up or down a coastline. They can be accompanied by a Ti'at, which has bonus movement and strength on the coast. It is a Scout replacement, however, so even its boosted strength is not that high (though defensively it’s respectable on its home continent). Lack of a terrestrial scout also hinders the Tongva with inland forays. The idea is to send a Settler and a protecting Ti’at up the coast, find a place with plentiful sea resources, then settle and use the Ti’at to improve the resource and kickstart city productivity. The Ki is worse than a farm alone in terms of yield, though it does provide a bit more housing. This helps alleviate the crowdedness coastal cities tend to have. They become great improvements with marshes, however, and respectable ones on the coast (though coast tiles are valuable land for wonders and resorts later in the game, so build with caution). Playing against, the Tongva do not fare well with warfare. Their UU is not militarily oriented, and pillaging their trade routes will cripple most of their uniques. They likely will have lots of Gold saved up though, so they should be able to get units out quickly.

    Brainstorming

    For the record this civ was mostly finalized before Indonesia and Khmer were revealed, so the overlap with the coastal housing is coincidental. The Ki draws similarities with the Civ V Dutch polder, but there are already a couple shuffled UAs and UUs between V and VI, so one more won't hurt. The Civ VI incarnation of the Tongva is based on my Civ V one, with some changes to involve adjacency bonuses and the new leader-specific abilities. Since Toypurina was most famous for leading a rebellion against the Spanish missions, which Civ VI Spain is encouraged to build on foreign continents, I thought it would be interesting to tweak her agenda such that it in a sense opposes Spain. She dislikes civs that settle/spread religion on her home continent (ie: what she revolted against in the first place). Her ability is reminiscent of Australia's without the "liberating a city" trigger; it also lasts longer, but with half the percentage (a culture boost upon war declaration is arguably worse than a production one as well, though it could very well last beyond the war). The Tongva UA provides bonuses to intracontinental trade routes, as the Tongva were famed for being coastal traders all along the California coast. This also contrasts nicely with Spain, who has bonuses to intercontinental trade routes (though this was coincidental, the bonus was formulated before the comparison with Spain was). I would have liked the Tongva to be able to pursue a diplomatic victory, as Toypurina was renowned for her diplomacy and a trade focus would lend itself well to such a victory type, but I settled for culture as a next-best option. If/when diplomacy is introduced I'll likely retool the abilities to focus more on that.

    _____

    WIP

    The Kumeyaay

    Leader: Cinon Mataweer


    Ability: Kumeyaay Mat’taam

    ???

    Agenda

    ???

    UA: My Uuyow (Sky Knowledge)

    Start with Astrology unlocked. Holy Site adjacency bonuses are matched in Science yield.

    UB: Solstice Observatory

    Unlocks with Astronomy. Replaces the Library. In addition to normal Library yields, it provides +2 Faith, and farms within the city where it is built also provide +1 Faith.

    UU: Trail Runner

    Replaces the Scout. Doubled movement when starting in friendly territory; this movement is shared with coupled civilian units.

    The Kumeyaay are a southern California/very northern Mexico tribe most famous for their intricate astrological calendar. They devised a way to use the stars and constellations to tell time and plan their harvests accordingly, alongside a system of astrological beliefs. Gameplay-wise, I thought it would be very interesting to have a Native American civ that coupled Faith and Science. They don't get a religion-founding bonus, and their library replacement unlocks later, but they get powerful bonuses to both yields once they're up and running; starting with Astrology also helps with this. The Holy Site bonuses also allow them to focus on just getting a religion in the early game without worrying about falling behind in science. Still working on the LA and agenda.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 3:38 PM
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  14. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Chieftain

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    Just thought of this idea today. Edubba: (Replaces Library) Still grants more science than library. When built you have access to send a Babylonian Scribe to another civilization for 15 gold.
    It acts as another early game delegate for Babylon for diplomatic visibility. If Catherine can have a Flying Squadron than Hammurabi can have his scribes. :D
     
  15. AnonymousSpeed

    AnonymousSpeed Pink Plastic Army Man

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    No, but you did say that Justinian tried to form alliances with some Christian nations, which in the context of discussing this idea for an agenda does seem to invoke that point.

    I see no reason why Justinian has to forgo warmongering in order to have a religious focus as well. I think the agenda would be fine for gameplay, because its an opponent you'd have to approach your interactions with differently. The Crusade belief implies that this sort of thing isn't something that's not supposed to happen (not that what's "supposed to happen" is all that important, but the idea isn't out of the question). Many of the lands Justinian conquered had undergone significant conversion, and whether or not fighting other Christians was his more basic intent it did end up being the result.

    Oh, I don't mean to question why Polders are like that. I was pointing out that they invoked an idea (adjacency from a unique improvement), but weren't what I think the fully realized version of that idea would be, in my opinion.


    I never liked the Walls of Babylon unique building. To me, it's like having the Empire State Building as a unique building for America. I think the Walls of Nineveh would even more obviously suffer from the issue of "turning one instance of a thing into something you have everywhere." I couldn't tell you exactly why, but I feel that would be the case. Admittedly though, there is only one British Museum.

    Oh hey everyone here's a design for Canada but it's just names because I couldn't think of any cool or neat effects for them.
    Canada
    Spoiler :
    Unique Ability: Hudson Bay Company

    Unique Unit: Mountie

    Unique Building: Hockey Rink

    John A. Macdonald
    Capital: Ottawa

    Leader Ability: The National System

    Agenda: Great Coalition


    Here's an ability I thought was neat and fit for Portugal but it's currently just a little design note.
    Portugal
    Ability that's somewhere in there: Naval units gain experience for uncovering territory as Recon units do.


    Coherent and well researched and properly named things are hard. Or at the very least time consuming. I ain't got the time or patience to read the whole of Joao II's wikipedia page, convert his feats into Civ6 game mechanics, and make that meld with everything else, just to share the above idea.
     
  16. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Chieftain

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    This is like a Cyrus situation where an agenda not fitting a leader is construed to fit him due to one instance where such an agenda would make sense (in Cyrus' case his "surprise war" ability can only (sort of) make sense in the context of the attack on Babylon. With Justinian you have the same thing with the Goths. But his issue with them wasn't that they were Christian--his issue with them was that they occupied formerly (Roman Empire) territory, and the original Roman Empire was hardly Christian until Constantine.

    You imply this agenda idea of yours won't force Justinian to "forgo warmongering in order to have a religious focus". Quite the contrary is true. With this agenda Justinian would need to spread his religion to have a more powerful personality-based reason to go to war, which would predicate his war patterns to a larger degree based on where he spreads his religion. You also get the nonsensical result of people like the Persians having positive modifiers while Christian allies posing no religious threat of their own would be under attack. The issue isn't purely one of historical interest--it's also about having consistency within the game's current AI state.

    On another note, I sincerely hope Canada never makes it into Civ. Australia and Brazil are bad enough.
     
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  17. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Chieftain

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    That's cool, I had this in mind.
    UA: Forest and Fur Industry- Extra gold for camps found in forests and tundra. Extra Production from lumber mills. (Name could be better)
    Same building and unit. Not sure of a leader though.
    For Portugal I just went with the fact that Joao II wanted to follow in his uncle's, Henry the Navigator, footsteps and explore the world.
    P.S. Australia is my favorite to play as and Brazil was my first. I'm not opposed to them or Canada although I definitely wouldn't mind many others first.
     
  18. AnonymousSpeed

    AnonymousSpeed Pink Plastic Army Man

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    If you find the contents of this post provocative, please let me know what about the way I expressed these ideas bothered you so I can be better in the future.

    However, Justinian came after Constantine and that Christianization. He was still waging war on his fellow Christians.

    I've already explained why I feel that wanting to reconquer territory wouldn't be a particularly good agenda, and thus why an alternative such as this might be considered.

    If it's the flavor that bothers you, his denunciation would be more about his desire to unite the religion under a single ruler. Even if it's not Justinian with such an agenda, I imagine that would be the "in-character" presentation of the leader's intention.

    The scenario you present features Justinian both waging war and spreading religion. In addition, the most effective religious strategy would be to have a large empire (admittedly that's the best strategy for everything, but I digress).

    Perhaps it is not the most effective ideal route for pursuing a religious victory, since you can use Inquisitors on conquered cities of different religions, but the faith generation would still be important, and having a systematic approach to how Justinian works isn't inherently bad. In game terms, it leaves it open for Justinian to pursue either religious or domination victory, conquering one target while spreading his faith to the next.

    I'll admit that it doesn't make a lot of sense, but I think it's misguided to try and apply a great deal of real world logic to Civilization.

    The agenda system is already somewhat arbitrary, and creates tension or friendship were it otherwise wouldn't occur. I feel that such is the point of the system, that's how it's intended to shake things up. The nonsensical (but not horribly inconsistent in my opinion) results of the agenda would create the sort of atypical scenarios requiring atypical handling that the system is suited towards providing.

    I recall you saying you dislike the agenda system though, so if this point doesn't convince you, that's fine.

    I do not wish to spark an argument, but I find this immediate hostility towards post-colonial civilizations somewhat rude. I respect your opinion, even if I will voice my disagreements with it, but I think people who would like to see Canada would feel somewhat aggravated by that terse, almost dismissive expression of your sentiment.

    I tend not to like ideas like Forest and Fur Industry, to be honest. I don't think it really affects how the civ would be played all that much, and simply boosting gold and production is very flat. Camps do make sense for the bonus, but I feel there's a better way to go about that bonus. Some way. Don't ask me how, I already said I don't have ideas. The best I could come up with was district adjacency from Tundra and Camps.
     
  19. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Chieftain

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    Justinian did not, to my knowledge, begin wars out of a desire to rule a unified Christendom. His desire was to recapture the territory of the Western Roman Empire, and that (in its scope) largely preceded Constantine and his Eastern Roman Empire.

    The Goths were Arian Christians. Arianism was regarded as a heresy by Byzantium, which was at the time of Justinian Orthodox Christian. So the idea of Justinian regarding war on fellow Christians as a good thing is misleading at best. Arian Christians weren't regarded as fellow "Christians" as such by the Byzantines, and what your agenda would lead to is Justinian waging war on fellow Orthodox Christians. A more accurate religiously flavored agenda for Justinian would be a replica of Philip II's agenda (Philip II, a Catholic Christian, resented Protestant Christians, including Elizabeth I, on whom he unsuccessfully unleashed his Armada).

    Further, as earlier stated, Justinian's Wars on the Goths were not motivated by the Gothic religion as much as a desire tom conquer the territory of Italy itself. Hence Justinian's willingness to entertain the idea of a Gothic alliance, and his war with the Ostrogoths who killed his Gothic ally (Queen Amalasuntha).

    I repeat again the nonsensical quality of Justinian (under your agenda idea) becoming fast friends with Persia, which was Justinian's lifelong enemy (he frequently paid them off so he could focus on his western Wars).

    The fact that the agenda system is currently flawed isn't a reason to introduce another ahistorical and not-common-sense agenda to the game. If you want an agenda with leaders declaring war on those of the (exact) same faith you should look elsewhere.

    Free of your agenda, Justinian's war patterns could more naturally be both military and religious in nature. We already have leaders who (while otherwise somewhat peaceful) aggressively pursue religious victory (Jadwiga for example). Justinian could simply be a more aggressive version of that, albeit with an agenda relating to his legal code, his love of religious wonders, or so on.

    I thought you wanted Basil II anyway, so mostly this discussion is superfluous. I am posing on this in depth to avoid a potential repeat of something as ahistorical as Cyrus' agenda, especially where (as here) you are trying really hard to get an AI to target the Crusade belief (frankly a better fit for your agenda would be Enrico Dandolo of Venice, who with Crusaders sacked Constantinople, but even that's not a great fit gameplay wise).

    Re: Canada, you're taking it a bit too personally. My issue is less with Canada as such and more post-colonial nations in general. Elsewhere in this forum a few weeks ago when the concept of a different Civ vanilla lineup was discussed, I indicated that if I had my way the US would not be in Civ (not that it should really matter, but I am a US citizen and fan of US history, though I prefer the ancients like the Inca and Palmyra). That doesn't mean I think it's horrifying to see Canada Civ designs in this thread (especially given that we've had Trump, Spongebob etc in the spirit of fun). But rather I prefer other Civ ideas. Everyone has their own preferences.

    Speaking of, I wouldn't mind Babylon (as earlier discussed in this thread by Alexander's Hetaroi) being in the game but if Hammurabi is to be its leader he could be given a backstabber flavor. The scribes for diplomatic purposes wouldn't quite work since it would seem a bit of a repeat for Catherine's, but I like the idea of Hammurabi being presented as a diplomatic power player at large. Hammurabi was the (backstabbing) Bismarck of his time, frequently turning on allies and conquering them after they aided him. In my Civ idea earlier in the thread I portrayed him as the Bani Matim (aka improvement lover) which he also was. But that doesn't mean his loyalty score can't also be rather low.

    "Edubba" is a nice flavorful find for a potential Babylonian infrastructure distinct from Civ V's Walls I guess (it does seem a Sumerian word though; that said it does seem mentioned in the context of "old Babylonia" so I guess it could work). :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 at 9:46 AM
  20. Nagato

    Nagato Chieftain

    Joined:
    Thursday
    Messages:
    2
    Some comments I can not read and leave unanswered

    I understand who prefers ancient historical civilizations, just like me. But I can not understand this exaggerated hatred against postcolonial civilizations (mainly Australia and Brazil), why would they be so bad? Brazil is the fifth most populous country in the world, and one of the largest economies on the planet, has a rich and diverse culture, and can easily represent the native Indigenous of that country, who will hardly be included in the game. Australia, for its part, is an important postcolonial country with a great economy, the Aborigines will hardly be included in the game, would Scythia (meh civilization that needs to use Russian cities because it does not have enough list of cities) a civilization more interesting than Australia just because it is not a postcolonial country? Some of these comments sound offensive to people in these countries. After all, what is the parameter to tell if a country is a" worthy" or not? People will want to arbitrate based on their personal convictions, which will not be relevant argument, the game is not made to satisfy desires of a person. I'm sure Brazilians, Aussies and Canadians would like to have their countries in the game to play with them, it's just normal for people want to play with their countries. I don't not like Scythia just as I did not like Shoshone in CivV, but I'd rather ignore them rather than hate them. If we are to totally exclude the postcolonial nations from the game and pretend they are not part of the story, then we will exclude America as well and we will lose out to many American players who would like to play with America.

    Anyway, sorry to divert the subject of the forum, I'm just responding to a comment that sounded me a bit unpleasant.
     

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