desire is deviant?

[Live trash can]

This discussion will maybe not interest everyone, but if anyone is interested in discussing it I am happy.

How should we understand desire?

I live the life of an ascetic more or less. I try only to live the path of one wishing to realize the world at its best.

I think that is why I have wanted to play Civ; I try to build a world where people are happy and the world is looked after in a sustainable way.

And so I ask: is there good desire? Is what I want to do a way of desiring? I feel I get much from living a "pious" life. Living out desires gives short term happiness but distracts from more "genuine" things.

 

[Borachio]

sooner murder an infant in its cradle than nurse unacted desires

William Blake

But I can't say I much understand what he's on about.

I think when people castigate desire they're talking about the kind of desire which is utterly selfish, which sees other people as merely objects destined to satisfy their desires.

They're not talking about the desire to see a better world, for instance.

 

[Synobun]

Desire is tempered by one's personality. How you act, in most cases, is of more consequence than what you wanted.

What you describe is still desire. Funnily enough, it might be more self-absorbed than the alternative you presented. You feel so strongly about your desire to make a better world that you believe it to be superior to the desires of others.

 

[Live trash can]

Funnily enough, it might be more self-absorbed than the alternative you presented. You feel so strongly about your desire to make a better world that you believe it to be superior to the desires of others.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Think of desire as a continuum. At one end is greed, lust, power and selfishness. At the other is love for others more than oneself, personal sacrifice, caring and giving. We all act in multiple places along that continuum at any given time. The more time we act towards the "better" end of it, the nicer the world is.

 

[Live trash can]

I suppose people are a little different also. Imagine a person who becomes a monk in whatever religion. He finds his meaning in living a pious life without much of what many other people treasure.

That being said, I believe there are great differences between monks so it is kind of hard to generalize. In some countries I think monks are held in high esteem. In the west they have become almost invisible.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Monks have their place on the continuum. Not acting badly contributes to a better world.

 

[Hygro]

Dead grandfather heuristic applies. Your dead grandpa is better at not desiring than you could hope to be, so surely the best expression of a person isn’t to be worse than their dead form.

 

[warpus]

And so I ask: is there good desire? Is what I want to do a way of desiring? I feel I get much from living a "pious" life. Living out desires gives short term happiness but distracts from more "genuine" things.

I have a desire to help those less fortunate than me.

I also think it's important a well-balanced life. If you don't give in to some of your inner desires, they will end up defining who you are and consuming you from within. I realize that there are monks who push all desires away and live a chaste life, and if that's your path in life then go ahead and take it, if that's what truly makes you happy. But it is a challenging path, which in many cases ends up pushing people towards the vices they are trying so hard to avoid

 

[Live trash can]

I also think it's important a well-balanced life. If you don't give in to some of your inner desires, they will end up defining who you are and consuming you from within. I realize that there are monks who push all desires away and live a chaste life, and if that's your path in life then go ahead and take it, if that's what truly makes you happy. But it is a challenging path, which in many cases ends up pushing people towards the vices they are trying so hard to avoid

I have had some weird experiences with dreams. Dreams in which I am exposed to a desire which I never have desired in waking life. And which opens up new avenues in waking life. It feels a bit like being backstabbed, as I had never felt those weird feelings before until they showed up in my dreams.

Luckily for me, they got mitigated over time... It's like where the **** did they come from?

 

[warpus]

Since your conscious is trying to be so pious, perhaps your subconscious is rebelling against it.

 

[Live trash can]

Since your conscious is trying to be so pious, perhaps your subconscious is rebelling against it.

hehe

So I should be a slut?

that is very interesting

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

It depends. I'd say some desire is healthy and deserved (food, shelter, water, love) etc. We do have a tendency to let a lot of the more granular desires eat at us, especially when those desires are based on faulty assumptions or ideas about what reaching them might involve. Or when they're stupendously unrealistic. I know I've certainly let myself get eaten alive by desires for unrealistic and honestly silly things. I would probably agree with the Four Noble Truths in that giving up all desire will release us from a cycle of suffering. I'm just not sure that's entirely realistic or even the best result. I guess when you can differentiate between passionate goals and ridiculous longing you can manage them well enough.

 

[warpus]

hehe

So I should be a slut?

that is very interesting

As a compromise, what if you are pious for 6 days of the week, but a slut only on Tuesdays?

Or just rub one out every once in a while to keep your urges in check

 

[Live trash can]

warpus:
I think it is important to do what you think is right! And I think living a pious life is the right thing. Reverting to my old habits - after a brief excursion during the Christmas-holidays - is restoring my peace and contentment.

GoodEnoughForME:
Yes. Silly desires are what I am critizing. And I feel they are detracting from a more "enlightened" life. What I think of as a more genuine life. That might sound lofty but it is what I actually believe.

 

[Berzerker]

even the desires of saints are selfish, helping others feels good

 

[warpus]

warpus:
I think it is important to do what you think is right! And I think living a pious life is the right thing. Reverting to my old habits - after a brief excursion during the Christmas-holidays - is restoring my peace and contentment.

It seems to be the right thing for you, so do your thing and good luck

However, for the record, your username is making it hard to take you seriously as a celibate zen master

 

[Borachio]

However, for the record, your username is making it hard to take you seriously as a celibate zen master

Really?

Strikes me as a highly appropriate one.

As for sexual desire, I think the human race would quickly die out without it.

I find it very hard to believe that any otherwise healthy person between the ages of 14 and 60 (say) could live without it entirely and remain sane.

Though I don't believe I ever seriously tried it myself.

It is rather nice to do without it these days though. But that's more because I've had the lack of it thrust upon me rather than seeking it out.

 

[Live trash can]

It is rather nice to do without it these days though. But that's more because I've had the lack of it thrust upon me rather than seeking it out.

Me too have had certain ascetic rules forced upon me, but I am highly thankful for it!
I wonder how my life would have been without it.

In one of his works, The Republic, Greek philosopher Plato portraits an old man being asked about his old age saying (something like): I am actually glad of being done with the whole sexual thing. It is like getting peace from a crazy tyrant.

 

[Borachio]

Yeah. George Melly: “The consolation [for growing old] is losing your libido. It’s like being unchained from a lunatic".

I've no doubt that George Melly got the idea from Plato.

Most people, though, probably aren't at the mercy of their libido so much as that.