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[Development] Alternative Map during 1.17

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I think just letting all ships (or at least transport ships) ignore open borders is a better idea. If you are at war you can still use these chokepoints to block access.
     
  2. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    New update:
    - adjusted shape and terrain of the Iberian peninsula
    - moved the Scandinavian peninsula 1E to reduce the size of the Baltic Sea

    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot0112.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0111.JPG

    Sweden wasn't as misshaped as I thought after looking at a Robinson projection, but Scandinavia in general is misleading because that part of the map is squished vertically, and the Scandinavian peninsula is kind of bent to make everything fit. This makes e.g. Norway look a bit weird but leaving it like this is better than making it bigger. I also added one land tile at the Polish coast near Gdansk to give more shape to the coastline. Considered a lagoon near Kaliningrad too but it looked out of proportion with the Baltic states, especially because it would have required changing the course of the Neman. The Baltic States are squished too and would have one additional row if correctly proportioned, where this might have worked better, but there just isn't enough space on the map.
     
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  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Merged a pull request by merijn_v1: improved dates model
     
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  4. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    I like the idea of adding Deep Oceans to encourage navigational paths to be closer to RL.
     
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  5. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I'd actually invert this, to be honest. Remove the faster Ocean movement speed and add a trade winds feature that increases movement speed.
     
  6. Genghis Khaiser

    Genghis Khaiser Prince

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    Probably too soon to mention it but I checked the map and moving the land made some spawn maps be off. For example, England spawns at sea and the Netherlands don't spawn at a coastal tile.

    Also, how will the Moors spawn in Andalucia? Inland or in a coastal city?
     
  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Moors are intended to spawn at the Cordoba spot. But there's not much point in fixing the spawn locations for now.
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    New update: placed Citrus and Dates on the map.
     
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  9. Genghis Khaiser

    Genghis Khaiser Prince

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    Is it a coastal spot?
     
  10. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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  11. ozqar

    ozqar King

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    I think it would be good if the map and city locations allowed Seville and Cordoba to coexist. Seville is historically too important for Spain to not have it (that's where all the colonies were managed, not in Madrid), and it's really a pity for the Moorish capital to be destroyed (since it will likely hold wonders and since in reality the Moorish cities were never destroyed). If the map can't be adjusted, I'd rather have a coastal Cordoba (eg, move it 1E) than no Cordoba or no Seville.
     
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  12. Krieger-FS

    Krieger-FS Warlord

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    Few suggestions to citrus (orange) placement in the Americas (obviously spawning as colonial/post-colonial resource):

    Major producer areas:
    - São Paulo state, preferably in replacement of banana resource. This Brazilian state is the largest world producer nowadays.
    - Florida, preferably in mid-south state. Another world-leading orange producer.

    The combined orange production of Florida and São Paulo account to 85% of the world market, so it can be two resources in each state (although in São Paulo case the area could become a bit resource cramped).

    Other important production areas:
    - California
    - Texas
    - Minas Gerais (Brazilian state)
    - Veracruz (Mexican state)
     
  13. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I find your conclusion contradictory to your argument.
     
  14. ozqar

    ozqar King

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    Huh? Maybe you misread 1E as 1W? Or maybe I'm mistaken in my interpretation of how you intend to use the map? For clarification, I'm assuming that on this map you intend to have Seville either on or north of the wine and Cordoba west of the stone. Is that correct?

    My point is, the map should ideally allow both at the same time, if my assumption for city locations is correct, then that can't happen My recommendation is that 1) if the map can be edited, maybe you have a solution to have them both there rearranging city locations based on a different map shape. 2) if the map can't be edited, then keep Seville on its spot (either on the wine or north of the wine) and move Cordoba to the tile of the stone. That allows both cities.
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Oh you're right, I'm sorry. Having a costal city in western Andalusia is so counterintuitive to me that seeing coastal immediately implied the Sevilla spot to me.

    And you're right. Cordoba would be 1W of the stone, Sevilla 1N of the wine. On the wine should be Cadiz.

    I see no way to edit the map in a way that makes Andalusia large enough for that to happen. Even if I were willing to distort Africa for that (which I am not as it's nearly not important enough to distort an entire continent) it would throw Andalusia out of proportion with the rest of the peninsula.

    I think there are more historical accuracy problems with moving Cordoba 1E, in particular giving it not only sea access but also making it Mediterranean instead of Atlantic facing, but even when doing that you only technically allow Cordoba and Sevilla to coexist. I certainly would not found both of them and neither would the AI, and it would be weird to strongarm the AI into doing so because it's just not a good choice. Those cities are just too close to coexist on this map, and they aren't nearly unique in that, and it would be wrong to bend over backwards to allow them both in this one case.

    I agree that Sevilla is more important later in history but in this case the difference can be represented in different scenarios.
     
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  16. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    Maybe make Cordoba coastal and have Sevilla be the Spanish rename? Would be quite weird having Cordoba be a coastal city though...
     
  17. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Well it's not like Sevilla wasn't an important Moorish city either. It's just that it's the Caliphate of Cordoba so their capital should actually be the real Cordoba.
     
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  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    What do you think about changing Bamboo Forest from a Forest variety to a separate feature type? The only place it appears is South China (plus a few tiles in Korea and Japan). And in the past we had some discussion around using jungle to prevent ahistorically early settlement of South China (combined with delaying some of the resources to spawn later). But Bamboo Forest presents a good solution to this already. The stats could be the same as regular Forest, but it could require a later tech to be removed, for example Medicine.
     
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  19. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    New update:
    - placed resource varieties around the map
    - restored Tea in South America
    - removed one tile from SE Spain
    - adjusted terrain in Tibet
    - adjusted terrain in the Arctic
     
  20. soul-breathing

    soul-breathing King

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    Actually Bamboo forest is not more difficult to chop than normal forest. In East Asia we use bamboo to produce chopsticks, baskets and many weapons such as arrows since ancient time. So I think it's not necessary to move to a later tech. At the same time, the hammers after chop bamboo could be less than forest. 15 hammers for bamboo, while 20 hammers for forests.
    I prefer to add marshes and rainforests in South China, and turn to normal forests, bamboo and normal tiles later.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019

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