[Development] Alternative Map during 1.17

[1SDANi]

I'm not sure about this, but I think the tip of the Malay peninsula should be much further down (1-2 tiles?). But I also think this wouldn't be possible without shifting the rest way too south.

Spoiler :

View attachment 533657

Another reason why someone who's good at art stuff should make a strait feature asset asap

 

[Preacher_ua]

Can i ask when new map is going to release?

 

[TJDowling]

Can i ask when new map is going to release?

You can. The answer is someday.

 

[Publicola]

Can i ask when new map is going to release?

I'm pretty sure Leoreth's plan was to release it with version 1.18. He's currently on 1.17, which is laying the groundwork (lots of groundwork) for that later mega-release.

 

[Temujin8k]

For the Straits feature, I was thinking, maybe there would be this pseudoroad-like feature that connects the centers of two diagonally adjacent water tiles with an invisible line which alters the height map along it, effectively making a cut on the perpendicular land tiles and creating a strait. Maybe this invisible feature could also allow these I can't do it myself though since I have no experience in game graphics design. I think @merijn_v1's previous experiments with the diagonals would help a lot here.

 

[1SDANi]

For the Straits feature, I was thinking, maybe there would be this pseudoroad-like feature that connects the centers of two diagonally adjacent water tiles with an invisible line which alters the height map along it, effectively making a cut on the perpendicular land tiles and creating a strait. Maybe this invisible feature could also allow these I can't do it myself though since I have no experience in game graphics design. I think @merijn_v1's previous experiments with the diagonals would help a lot here.

Straights as a type of route on water tiles? That would in turn leave the tile open for features and would make for a design that's far more adaptive to the environment. The majority of the work is already done for us as well.

 

[Temujin8k]

Straights as a type of route on water tiles? That would in turn leave the tile open for features and would make for a design that's far more adaptive to the environment. The majority of the work is already done for us as well.

I was originally thinking of implementing it as a feature that simply works similar to roads, but with what you said I think that's a better way to deal with it. The idea is to alter the height map along that line and to make that connection passable to water units, which normally would require a city instead. Maybe this can help with the trade winds feature that Leo wants to implement too, I guess?

 

[1SDANi]

I was originally thinking of implementing it as a feature that simply works similar to roads, but with what you said I think that's a better way to deal with it. The idea is to alter the height map along that line and to make that connection passable to water units, which normally would require a city instead. Maybe this can help with the trade winds feature that Leo wants to implement too, I guess?

If I remember the previous heightmap related discussions correctly, coasts, plains, hills, and mountains are the only things that can affect the game's heightmap. If that's true, I highly doubt replacing one of those would be worth the comparatively tiny benefits granted by a slightly better looking feature that will only be used in a few places on the map.

 

[merijn_v1]

I managed to look at the new map in game, for once, and I noticed one small detail: the murex snails have some water ring pattern under them that doesn’t look great. It is also not animated. The other shellfish resources have no pattern or have one that is subtle and animated.

Fixed this in a PR. I added the wave animation from the clams.

 

[Kewlipo]

Just a quick question, has the Amazon been touched at all? I always thought it out of place for there to be a bunch of marsh- maybe marsh with jungle would look better?

 

[Leoreth]

Krieger-FS covered it in their suggestions, and I included them, mostly. Have you compared it to the latest state of the branch?

 

[TJDowling]

Just a quick question, has the Amazon been touched at all? I always thought it out of place for there to be a bunch of marsh- maybe marsh with jungle would look better?

I thought that would be good too, honestly, the marsh feature is kind of lacking aesthetically and marshland without any trees seems to apply to pretty specific geographic locations that aren't jungles. Problem is you can't stack jungle on marsh so someone would need to create an entirely new feature with both which may be a tough sell as it is entirely non-essential to gameplay.

 

[ozqar]

Well actually, isn't there a marsh terrain and a marsh feature? That means it could be easy to apply jungle (and actually also savanna, rainforest, conifers, and forests features would be realistic) over the marsh terrain. I'm not sure though about gameplay implications with being able to clear or not the marsh.

 

[Leoreth]

I would bet @merijn_v1 is willing to give a combined marsh + jungle trees feature variety a try. I agree it would look better as part of the Congo or Amazon.

 

[TJDowling]

Well actually, isn't there a marsh terrain and a marsh feature? That means it could be easy to apply jungle (and actually also savanna, rainforest, conifers, and forests features would be realistic) over the marsh terrain. I'm not sure though about gameplay implications with being able to clear or not the marsh.

Oh that's why there is always a bit leftover when I remove the marsh terrain!

 

[Krieger-FS]

Well, when I've made my suggestions to the Amazon, I've have left/put some marsh (terrain) + jungle/rainforest on map, particularly in the "river paths" proposed (rainforests near major rivers to allow unit movement and city founding). At that time I was thinking both in aesthetic perspective (some variety to otherwise all-grassland terrain) but also in gameplay terms (limit the growth and productivity of Amazon cities). Nonetheless, a combined jungle+marsh feature would be great.

On a side note, the Congo basin in the latest version is quite similar to the previous Amazon map, full of marshes. I don't really know much about the area, but it wouldn't be the same case of Amazon? I read on wiki that some of the largest swamp forests in the world are located there, but it would be nice to have the Congolese rainforest properly represented with more jungle/rainforest titles.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, but please differentiate between aesthetic and actual gameplay concerns when discussing this. I know the marsh feature art is more designed to represent temperate and arctic swamps, but that can be addressed by extra art varieties, hopefully. I want to avoid that Microbiology suddenly unlocks the ability to clear entire jungles and unlock prime cottage grasslands.

 

[merijn_v1]

I would bet @merijn_v1 is willing to give a combined marsh + jungle trees feature variety a try. I agree it would look better as part of the Congo or Amazon.

Sure.

Yeah, but please differentiate between aesthetic and actual gameplay concerns when discussing this. I know the marsh feature art is more designed to represent temperate and arctic swamps, but that can be addressed by extra art varieties, hopefully. I want to avoid that Microbiology suddenly unlocks the ability to clear entire jungles and unlock prime cottage grasslands.

There are already 3 varieties of the marsh feature in the mod. But only 1 is used.

 

[Leoreth]

I ... did not know that.

 

[ozqar]

Yeah, but please differentiate between aesthetic and actual gameplay concerns when discussing this. I know the marsh feature art is more designed to represent temperate and arctic swamps, but that can be addressed by extra art varieties, hopefully. I want to avoid that Microbiology suddenly unlocks the ability to clear entire jungles and unlock prime cottage grasslands.

I'd propose to rename marshes to bogs then: "Bogs are widely distributed in cold, temperate climes, mostly in boreal ecosystems in the Northern Hemisphere."

I think it would be interesting to represent other types of wetlands. Marshes are actually quite positive for food production: "Marshes have extremely high levels of biological production, some of the highest in the world, and therefore are important in supporting fisheries."

Finally, swamps are basically forested wetlands (as opposed to marshes, which are dominated by grasses or shrubs). But swamps exist all over the world and for all types of forests (see coniferous, mixed and decidious in tropical to temperate regions, tropical peat forests, etc.).

There are more varieties, but I simplified things to those three main types. I'm not sure what could be their differences in game, besides having different types of food production and tech requirements for clearance, but just wanted to throw it out there as an idea.