[Development] Canonical City Location Suggestions

[Leoreth]

I don't think we are even close to done, I've seen half a dozen of proposals for Europe but the rest of the map seems pretty thin.

 

[merijn_v1]

My attempt at Latin America.

Spoiler :

- Panama City cannot be settled on the current map because of the jungle. The jungle could be turned into a rainforest later on. This allows Panama City to be settled, without opening the Panama Canal too early.
- Between Georgetown and Belem, Paramaribo (2E1S) could be added as the canonical Dutch settlement in that area. But I don't think
that city is that canonical to enough for being on this map. (Call it semi-canonical if you like)

Spoiler :

- Lima and Ariquipa are canonical for the 1700 AD scenario. I don't think they should be the canonical cities in the 600 AD scenario. (I think the Incan settlements are more canonical in that scenario)
- The Incan cities of Tucume and Chan Chan are only the canonical cities in the 600 AD scenario, but not in the 1700 AD scenario.

Spoiler :

- Santiago is a canonical city in the 1700 AD scenario. I think an Incan city should be in that area in the 600 AD scenario, but I don't know which one is the most canonical.

Spoiler :

- I think that only of of Port Au Prince and Santo Domingo should be present at the same time, depending on which civ settles their.
- I think that all 1 tile islands are equally canonical. Which ones are settled should depend on what civs settles in that area. Not by the canonical city placement.

 

[BenZL43]

While we're revisiting South America, I'd like to point the necessity to review Inca's CNM. Ultimately because some gamer often found a city near/on the Copper around Atacama desert and got Caqonatambu as name instead. I've tried to retrace Caqonatambu origin and found the only reference from Rhye's own development thread in 2006

Ready:

Ollantaytambo - Ullantaytanpu
Corihuayachina - Curihuayachina
Vilcas - Vilcas
Vilcabamba - Vilcabamba
Vitcos - Vitcos
Andahuaylas - Andahuailas
Ica - Ica
Atico - Acari
Juli - Lluli
Chuquiapo - Chuqiapu
Huanucopampa - Huanuqupampa
Tamboccocha - Tambuqcucha
Huaras - Huaraz
Riobamba*
Caxamalca - Cacsamalca
Sausa - Sauza
Tambocolorado - Tampupuca
Huaca - Huaqa
Chuito - Chuitu
Caiamarca - Cajamarca
Bombón - ???
Huánuco - Lauricucha
Cuenca - Tomebamba

-----

Quito - Quitu
Túcume - Tucume
Chanchan - Chan-Chan
Pachacamac - Pachacamaq
Nazca - Nazca
Machu Picchu - Machu-Pikchu
Cuzco - Qusqu
Huamanga - Huamanga
Arequipa - Ariqipaya
Tihuanaku (Tiwanaku) - Tiyawanaku
Limatambo - Caqonatambu
Coquimbo - Coqimpu

Coments: About Bombón: Wife (arqueologist) and mother in law (linguistic) don´t know where is it, or if there a quechuan translation.
Riobamba was found by the Spanish, but unlike other cities (Huanuco or Cuenca) there isn´t an Incan city below. Leave it untoch.
Also, Chan-Chan and Tucume isn´t quechuan names, but the Moche lenguage was still very strong upon the arrival of the Spanish. There is simply no quechua translation.

Also, I think border on which tile is still Peru (and which are Chilean) needs to be defined. It seems Peru is too large judging from city name choices. There are traces of Inca rule in Santiago as well in its southernmost point but so far I haven't found the exact name. Probably I won't find one until I went to the Museo Precolombino this Dec. I have to agree tho that finding Inca's name are a bit difficult.

I would love to see Antofagasta in the area as canonical too to represent the War of Pacific. Either Arequipa or Antofagasta is good but not both.

 

[iMuffin]

My attempt at Africa:

Spoiler North Africa :

Spoiler West Africa :

Spoiler South Africa :

Spoiler East Africa :

Spoiler Egypt :

 

[star15389]

Which tile would you put Khartoum on?

 

[iMuffin]

Which tile would you put Khartoum on?

I didn't put it in because I couldn't find a good place for it. It should be roughly 1N3W of Aksum, but more importantly it should be where the white and blue nilecome together to form the Nile, which is 1S4W of Aksum. In order to have it in the correct location the Nile should be redrawn, I think there were some suggestions in another thread which make it more viable.

 

[Crimean Lord]

I really like magnificent idea of speading Earth's Map: I prepared some changes for Central Russia and Ukraine
P.S. Also I think new Map need some deers in the Russian North and one other hand - much more oil in the Siberia and Far East territories

 

[Maharaja Ranjit Singh]

China is already pretty large, and in fact it is in the original map. I think China is fine as it is. As it looks, it can support many large, productive cities.

Genghis Khaiser, the city placement for South Asia, in particular Lahore, needs to be altered. Lahore is actually very close to Amritsar (only 50 km away); however, I would replace Amritsar with Lahore because Lahore has greater historical significance than Amritsar. Yes, Amritsar is the holiest city in Sikhism and has the Sri Harmandhir Sahib, but Amritsar become prominent after the Harmandhir Sahib was founded in 1589 - Amritsar was founded in 1577. Lahore is ancient and has huge influence in terms of Punjabi culture and was considered the crown jewel of Punjab, targeted by the Ghorids, Turks and Mughals.

Another city in the Punjab region; Multan. Multan, like Lahore has historical significance and was a target of invaders. More so, it had economic and religious importance in Punjab for Islamic Medieval traders.

Also, I would place a city in the Rajasthan region; Ajmer. Ajmer was founded around 1200 AD, therefore it should spawn from there. It is important to consider a Rajput influence in India since they were the main adversaries of the Ghorids and Turks from the 12th and 13th centuries. For the 1700 AD, Ajmer should be replaced with Jaipur. Jaipur was founded in 1727 and became an important city for the Rajputs, Marathis and British.

In red is the proposed location for Lahore; in purple is the proposed location of Multan and in yellow is the proposed location for Ajmer/Jaipur.

Thank you for your consideration.

 

[evergreennightmare]

shouldn't hyderabad be about 2-3S from there?

anyways here's two tentative versions of mesoämerica, one denser than the other.
moving the mayan spawn point from yax mutal to lakamha is something that should be considered as we now have enough space, and that's where pacal was from

* two names are cut off - xoconōchco and huītzitzillān
** i'm using acute accents in place of the correct macra, which aren't supported, i guess

 

[ganker14]

Here my suggestion for italy. Some cities maybe are a little bit misplaced (like ravenna which should be south of venezia), but it was the only way to include the most important cities.

I also propose some dynamic name changes (in case of cities who loss importance over time, i'm not including those cities who had a different name in roman period, like Frusino->Frosinone, etc.)

-Anzio nowadays is not more than a little town, Latina is a much more important city who was founded by Mussolini in the 20/30's (after removing some marshes in that area), so i think Anzio's name should switch to Latina after the industrial/global age (or maybe in case of state party).

-Udine should be Aquileia if founded by romans, and then its name should change in the middle ages.

-Napoli should be Pompeii if founded by romans, and then its name should change in the middle ages.

-Venezia could be Venesia until the XIX century (the historical birth of italian modern state), the same for Genova, that could just be Zena until XIX century.

-Roman Macerata was Ricina.

I also changed a sheep resource to an olive one, i'll explain why in the other thread.

 

[BenZL43]

I think Ashgabat, the capital city of Turkmenistan, worth a status of canonical city.
At least it had rich history back from silk road (Konjikala) or capital of Parthian Empire (Nisa).

The problem is.. the city is supposed to be situated in the middle of unviable desert right now.

 

[merijn_v1]

I combined all canonical map suggestions into one map. This gives a clear indication which areas still need to be filled up.

- Central USA
- Central Africa (for Congo especially)
- Russia
- (Some parts of) Indonesian Archipelago
- Southern China
- Central India

EDIT:
Both Budapest an Belgrade should be 1 NE.

 

[Leoreth]

That's useful, thanks.

 

[Publicola]

I combined all canonical map suggestions into one map. This gives a clear indication which areas still need to be filled up.

I tried loading this, but my game hard-crashed when I clicked to try to load it through the World Builder screen. I'm wondering if it's a problem with my game installation, or if this file requires the latest Git version of DOC in order to load.

 

[merijn_v1]

It requires the map branch of git.

The map has several new elements, which are currently not in the main mod. Such as new resources, new terrain types and new feature types. Lacking the information of those new elements will cause the crash.

If you really want to try it, but do not want to use git, you can download it from this page. (The green button "clone or download") It will download all the files from that branch. Make a backup of the original mod (by renaming the mod folder) and unpack the zipfile.
https://github.com/dguenms/Dawn-of-Civilization/tree/map
If you do this, you might get an error saying that it failed to read the WB file. At the bottom of this post you can find what to do.

 

[merijn_v1]

I placed the location of Budapest and Belgrade wrong on the map. Both should be 1 NE, like in the image below.

Spoiler :

But maybe the situation in the image below is better. Budapest is still moved 1NE, but Belgrade is on the place on the spot I initially placed it. The path of the Danube is slightly different, so Belgrade remains riversided.

Pros:
I think it's better for gameplay to have the cities have less overlap.
Belgrade is more to the west, which is more accurate.

Cons:
The shape of the Danube is slightly less accurate.

Spoiler :

 

[Leoreth]

Was about to propose the lower image when I saw the first one. That location of Belgrade looks more accurate to me, and it's more important to have it there connected to the Danube than maintaining the current flow of the river.

 

[Finbros]

How about CNM like this?

(Greece is oversized by the cost of moving Albania NW, Montenegro 1N and reducing Bosnia by tile.)

So we can have Vienna, Budapest, Istabul, Thessaloniki, Athenai; Venice and (Epidamnos/Dyrrachion/Durres or Ragusa) and (Sofia or Belgrade (slightly displaced) or Bucharest (too)).

 

[borhap88]

Here my suggestion for italy. Some cities maybe are a little bit misplaced (like ravenna which should be south of venezia), but it was the only way to include the most important cities.

I also propose some dynamic name changes (in case of cities who loss importance over time, i'm not including those cities who had a different name in roman period, like Frusino->Frosinone, etc.)

-Anzio nowadays is not more than a little town, Latina is a much more important city who was founded by Mussolini in the 20/30's (after removing some marshes in that area), so i think Anzio's name should switch to Latina after the industrial/global age (or maybe in case of state party).

-Udine should be Aquileia if founded by romans, and then its name should change in the middle ages.

-Napoli should be Pompeii if founded by romans, and then its name should change in the middle ages.

-Venezia could be Venesia until the XIX century (the historical birth of italian modern state), the same for Genova, that could just be Zena until XIX century.

-Roman Macerata was Ricina.

I also changed a sheep resource to an olive one, i'll explain why in the other thread.

I'd like to make a little proposal. I'd change "Catanzaro" with "Cosenza" ("Consentia" if founded by Romans). The reason behind my request is that two tiles representing Calabria (the tip of Italian boot) should reflect the medieval and modern administrative division of this region. It was splitted in a northern district (Calabria Citra or Latin Calabria) and a southern one (Calabria Ultra or Greek Calabria), with significant cultural and linguistic differences. Cosenza was the capital of the northern district, Catanzaro and Reggio Calabria (pretty more important than Catanzaro), alternately, of the southern one. Furthermore, Catanzaro has no clear historical references before medieval age; on the other hand, Cosenza was the capital of the Brutiians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruttians), a proud native italic people who fought against Greeks, then were allied with Hannibal against Rome and were definitively submitted to Rome only under Augustus.

 

[Lokki242]

Tried my hand at placing every major/strategically viable/gameplay useful modern city!

I used Rome for Chad, Harappa for Sudan, Phoenicia for Nigeria, because why not. Mostly cities are loosely grouped by modern borders.