• Our friends from AlphaCentauri2.info are in need of technical assistance. If you have experience with the LAMP stack and some hours to spare, please help them out and post here.

[Development] Map Suggestions

Both do represent tropical forest. The main difference is when the tiles become usable. Jungle tiles are not usable untill late in the game, whereas rainforests are usable much earlier. Having two tropical forest types gives some control when a tropical forest become usable or not.



Yes, it is technically possible. (And its not even that hard) But unless they are different gameplay wise, what would be purpose?



You can select which forest variety you want to place in the WB. Also, the new map has even more forest varieties.

I am thinking that because the forests are different they might yield different bonuses, considering that the two forests have different functions.
Which new varieties are coming out?

Since Conifers do provide the world with soft timber, I could see a hammer bonus for these places that simulates how settlement happens especially in the Taiga (heavy production but little food)
 
Last edited:
What does Rainforest represent as opposed to jungle.
Civilopedia shows that it is less inhospitable and easier to develop than jungle, because it has no health penalty and allows the construction of most improvements. That should be enough to draw conclusions about where it should be used.
 
was it based on this map
Spoiler :
K%C3%B6ppen_World_Map_Af_Am_Aw.png
 
No, it was added for gameplay considerations.
 
No, it was added for gameplay considerations.

It seems in many cases there is already an alignment. Though I wonder if they could make to align more. The Koppen rainforest could be made to mean inhospitable jungles while the other types of tropical forests could be called rainforest.

In this case even though I separated the sounds for Rainforest/Jungle I might bring them back together unless I can find sounds that somehow sound like a deeper or less deeper jungle.
 
Last edited:
So this is how I understand this works and what is tried to represent in the game:
- Rainforest is a term that comes from ecology and describes a type of ecosystem. Ecologically, there are different types of rainforests (moist, seasonal, cloud, temperate, tropical, etc), but the game doesn't make most of these distinctions.
- Jungle is a term that came to use in English from Indian languages, I'd presume from the time of British colonization of India. In these Indian languages it would simply be a synonym of rainforest, but in English the term was used to describe wild and inaccessible (forested) areas and to evoke a romanticist sense of mystery and adventure, but also of "primitiveness" (lands devoid of civilization).

In the past I remember we had some discussions in this forum about this. I think the jungle terrain and graphics are the ones originally in the game and rainforests were added later. As I understand, Leoreth decided to use the two terrain types to distinguish how some tropical rainforests were historically more populated than others. Ecologically, there is some correlation in that some old growth rainforests do have less soil fertility and some old world rainforests have disease vectors (malaria) that have made it difficult to have dense population (and agricultural production) in these areas. So jungle tiles represent rainforest regions that were less populated and the rainforest tiles represent rainforest regions that were more heavily populated (such as the Mayan, Congolese, and Indonesian cores). If you're looking for ideas on how to distinguish sounds between the two terrains... perhaps have more nature sounds in the jungle terrains and more people sounds in the rainforest terrains?

Secondly, I wanted to comment on the idea of differentiating conifer and deciduous forests. Generally, conifers have faster growth, so they are indeed better suited for the wood and paper industries. However, conifer trees also, generally, lead to less soil formation (soil is produced from decaying organic matter, such as leaves, that conifers don't shed many of). When conifer forests are cleared the soil can't sustain farming and the lands are used as pastures for grazing animals. In general terms and in comparison, deciduous trees generally grow slower, hence they are less used for the wood and paper industries, but they lead to more soil formation, so they are normally prime areas for clearance for farming (not for grazing). Perhaps that gives some ideas on how they could be used as different tile types?
 
Which new varieties are coming out?

You can see them yourself. They are already included. Just place small patch of a few tiles of each variety and see what is different.
 
In this case even though I separated the sounds for Rainforest/Jungle I might bring them back together unless I can find sounds that somehow sound like a deeper or less deeper jungle.
You could use the same sounds but make them occur in greater frequency for jungle.
 
You can see them yourself. They are already included. Just place small patch of a few tiles of each variety and see what is different.
Sorry I must look like a stick in the mud, but how would I do that? :lol:. I assume that this all part of the new map, no one can download the new map right? Or you mean to say its also part of everyone else's file?
 
I'm sorry if this has been anwered already, but is it possible in any way to actually play this map in whatever state it currently is in? I mean, even if it's not in any realistisc plausible way possible to play a meaningful game on it.
 
No, please don't play on the new map. It is not playable in the branch I am maintaining and if anyone makes a version that is playable, please don't play on it.
 
Sorry I must look like a stick in the mud, but how would I do that? :lol:. I assume that this all part of the new map, no one can download the new map right? Or you mean to say its also part of everyone else's file?

They are all in the new map branch on git. Everyone who has acces to that branch can view them. I assumed you have acces to it because your are quite active in making suggestions for the new map lately.

I also made them available as a separate modcomp:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/merijns-graphic-modcomps.635332/#post-15193309
(The colors in the modcomp version are slightly different than the ones used in DoC because DoC uses a different forest texture pack
EDIT: The bottom image is how it looks in DoC)
 
Last edited:
You could use the same sounds but make them occur in greater frequency for jungle.

I like this idea but it seems in order to do this I have to copy the files and make a new entry (in order to edit the frequency) because these options are in the 2D, and 3D scripts so if I use the same sound for the feature type there is no way to adjust the frequency for just one of the types.

What I did is that I gave the Rainforest default jungle sounds again, and then added the new sounds to the Jungle soundscape, I am testing how it works. It seems having two loops causes them to play together, but I adjusted the volume of the new loop so it sounds a bit more like a 3D sound. (The loop is mostly an Ecuadorian bird with its unique sound going on for 60 seconds)
 
I don't think you'd have to copy the audio files themselves, even if you make copies of the XML entries.
 
I don't think you'd have to copy the audio files themselves, even if you make copies of the XML entries.
oh,
I thought i had to copy the files
So its possible for two entries to use the same source and not break the code?

Fireaxis sure did a good job at programming Civilization IV!
 
Pretty sure, yeah.
 
Now revisiting Scandinavia.

Spoiler West :
scw.jpg

-Added moorland in South Swedish Highlands, sparsely populated area with stony, infertile soils and taiga-like terrain.

-Added islands off the Swedish west coast (Orust, Tjörn, archipelago of Göteborg).

-Added the river Dalälven (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalälven).

-Made Stavanger tile flat to (over)represent Jæren, largest flat lowland and some of the best farmland of Norway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jæren). We could maybe also make the area around the Trondheim fjord flatter. By Norwegian standards there are large lowlands and rich agriculture there.

-Mixed in some tundra tiles on the Norwegian coast for visual variation and to impede mobility in mountainous areas. Also more cold/grey islands (some Lofoten islands are freakishly mild for the latitude so we can still keep some green there). Snowy trees in the hills north of Oslo (inner Norway is cold).

-Added a new land tile to allow for a less awkward Tromsø which is also able to reach the whale. This also allows extending the Scandinavian mountain range by adding a couple of extra peak tiles representing the relatively high mountains south of Tromsø as well as the Lyngen Alps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyngen_Alps) etc. east of it. In reality the mountain range don't really start to drop that much in height until the Altafjord.

Spoiler East :
sce.jpg

-Tried adding some small but kinda significant rivers in southern Finland (Kokemäenjoki, Kymijoki, Vuoksi), not strongly in favor of including any of them.

-Added islands in Saimaa lake. In reality it's absolutely littered with them.

-Added Ruskeala marble for Saint Petersburg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruskeala#Quarries)

-Rerouted the Kemijoki river in Northern Finland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kemijoki_river_map.png), not really sure about it. The course it has currently looks pretty odd to me though.

-For some variation and to block pointless cities in the far north there could be snow terrain there. Winters in the area are really long (https://www.researchgate.net/figure...n-from-2000-to-2011-for-Europe_fig8_240721686).

-Instead of a preplaced fish there could be a crab/fish spawn near Murmansk in 1900. The Kola peninsula wasn't really populated before the 1900's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Peninsula#Demography) and had very little urbanization.
 
Back
Top Bottom