Diety AI gets FREE TECHS - this is just over the line

[Jehoshua]

modding it would be defeating the purpose of playing deity.

You should just accept the bonuses and be done with it, or go to a lower difficulty if its too hard.

thats my opinion



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Also offer anyone interested a spot in the Bunka clan (children of the emperor, life and death amongst the clans of japan) in the stories and tales forum. Its really fun

DONT JOIN THE EVIL SHIHAI

 

[Airey]

So, you argue that you want Deity hard, admit that percentile bonuses would be harder, but claim that I want Deity to be easier when I am arguing for percentile over flat bonuses?

Surely you can see my confusion with your attack of my position.

First of all, nobody is attacking you. You are just putting words into people's mouth.

I didn't say I want Deity hard. % bonuses are harder. It's a simple fact, like law of gravity, not sure what is there to admit.
I didn't say you want Deity to be easier. I am just suggesting Deity players in Civ IV can over come Deity AI with extra settler on turn 0. They surely can out-tech Deity AI with starting Tech bonuses. No where in my post did I mention anything about you. Except for the lame try on the joke (ie. "can't handle the truth" from the movie). Bottom line: if player is good, they're good.

Again, I am arguing for flat -> percentile bonuses for the AI, not to make Deity easier.

If flat bonus is already a problem to over come, not sure what is to be expected by giving Deity % bonus.
It just makes Deity even harder.

ie. parameter: tech path Pottery - Writing - Philosophy
AI gets free Pottery, tech rate increase at normal rate
- human actually have opportunity to catch up and be on par in techs with AI @ 50 turns, 100 turns

- if AI gets % bonus @ turn 1, takes them 5 or 7 turns (just random number) to finish Pottery....etc
- how is it possible for human to overtake that?! the AI tech rate is just going to compound exponentially

The vast majority of players would not understand that at all (the programming part).
Most people just pick a difficulty level and play.

Maybe someone can do a mod and make oneself feel "fair."
But Deity is not fair. To argue starting on "the same playing field" while giving era % bonus to AI is fair?
Since when does fair have to do with Deity There is a "fair" level, it's call Prince.

Sorry guys, I just don't see the relevance in changing something just so that the player "feels fair" @ turn 0 have to do with anything in trying to beat deity. Maybe just over analyzing this game a bit too much. Only programmers know what AI starts with what...just mod by renaming "Price" to "Deity" is prob the easiest solution.

 

[The_Quasar]

The vast majority of players would not understand that at all.
Most people just pick a difficulty level and play.

Maybe someone can do a mod and make yourself feel "fair."
But Deity is not fair. To argue starting on "the same playing field" while giving era % bonus to AI is fair?
Since when does fair have to do with Deity There is a "fair" level, it's call Prince.

Sorry guys, I just don't see the relevance in changing something just so that the player "feels fair" @ turn 0 have to do with anything in trying to beat deity. Maybe just over analyzing this game a bit too much. Only programmers know what AI starts with what...just mod by renaming "Price" to "Deity" is prob the easiest solution.

I quite agree... there IS a level playing field, called "Prince". If that is what you want, play at that level. If that is too easy, then complain about the AI, not the bonuses on other, higher levels!

However, there are some of us that want more of a challenge, we WANT the AI to cheat to make it challenging, and the harder the better.

 

[JohnnyW]

First of all, nobody is attacking you. You are just putting words into people's mouth.
[...]
Maybe someone can do a mod and make oneself feel "fair."
But Deity is not fair. To argue starting on "the same playing field" while giving era % bonus to AI is fair?
Since when does fair have to do with Deity There is a "fair" level, it's call Prince.

Sorry guys, I just don't see the relevance in changing something just so that the player "feels fair" @ turn 0 have to do with anything in trying to beat deity. Maybe just over analyzing this game a bit too much. Only programmers know what AI starts with what...just mod by renaming "Price" to "Deity" is prob the easiest solution.

You see, it's statements like the ones you make in the above post why I believe you are attacking my position, or just plain don't understand what I'm saying even after I made it as clear as I possibly could with my 3 point breakdown.

I would try harder to make you comprehend what I've written, but I don't see a point if a 1), 2), 3) point expression of my thoughts wasn't clear enough.

 

[alpaca]

I don't really mind. The difficulty settings are internally called handicaps, and that's actually what they are. They change the rules for the weaker player (the AI) relative to the stronger player (you) so that the weaker one has a chance to beat the stronger one. As far as I'm concerned, anything that does this is good and I don't really mind any particular kind of bonus as long as it doesn't totally warp gameplay.

The extra techs, workers and settler for the AI are more or less equivalent to a game where you start some 30-40 turns later (there are still the production bonuses and such, though) than the other players. This actually changes gameplay a lot less in my opinion than the production and happiness bonuses they get. The areas where it does change things is that you now have an easier time to sell the AI luxuries and that you can steal workers. Both of which are, however, things that should be fixed in different ways.

 

[civfan99]

modding it would be defeating the purpose of playing deity.

You should just accept the bonuses and be done with it, or go to a lower difficulty if its too hard.

thats my opinion



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Also offer anyone interested a spot in the Bunka clan (children of the emperor, life and death amongst the clans of japan) in the stories and tales forum. Its really fun

DONT JOIN THE EVIL SHIHAI

I agree with this I mean if its to hard just bump it down a lvl.

 

[ori]

Moderator Action: Please everyone stay on topic - the suggestion to not play at deity is not on-topic and besides has been given often enough.

 

[MadDjinn]

The flat tech advantage used to be a problem pre-december patch with respect to the early wonders. The AI would beeline all of them and it was hard to even get to the tech before they were gone. But even then, people would be able to get them.

Post-December patch, the AI doesn't beeline wonders as much. Once in a while a civ will do the GL by turn 39, but that's rare. I can consistently beat the AI to both the GL and the Oracle no matter the civ. (map start does affect the timing though - some start locations just suck)

The AI may hit classical before me, but I will hit medieval before them. The reason that AIs don't get a science help is that they will spam RAs with everyone due to the other help that they have. RAs are what get them up into Industrial competitively; and keep them tech count close to anyone who doesn't streamline for science. 1900AD (standard speed) future era is normal for deity.

Finally, yes you can make a smarter AI. At least smarter than the one provided. It'll not be as good as a human, but it might be able to work well enough to drop some of the handicaps.

 

[Airey]

I would try harder to make you comprehend what I've written, but I don't see a point if a 1), 2), 3) point expression of my thoughts wasn't clear enough.

Fair enough. What you wrote was clear.
I just failed to see the handicap in-game effect on the early game, until reading these:

The extra techs, workers and settler for the AI are more or less equivalent to a game where you start some 30-40 turns later (there are still the production bonuses and such, though) than the other players. This actually changes gameplay a lot less in my opinion than the production and happiness bonuses they get. The areas where it does change things is that you now have an easier time to sell the AI luxuries and that you can steal workers. Both of which are, however, things that should be fixed in different ways.

The flat tech advantage used to be a problem pre-december patch with respect to the early wonders. The AI would beeline all of them and it was hard to even get to the tech before they were gone. But even then, people would be able to get them.

Post-December patch, the AI doesn't beeline wonders as much. Once in a while a civ will do the GL by turn 39, but that's rare. I can consistently beat the AI to both the GL and the Oracle no matter the civ. (map start does affect the timing though - some start locations just suck)

both are valid points