Diplomacy is the weakest part of my game
- Thread starter Janus0
- Start date
The Rook
King
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 788
Backwards Logic
Emperor Palpatine
This is probably a dumb question, but I have to ask: How do you determine a civ's Base Peace Weight? Is it based off of diplomacy +/- 's? Civ traits? I can understand the 'future enemy' list because most have the aggressive trait, but what about the future friends list? Is it because they are builders (typically)?
Refar
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2005
- Messages
- 4,608
Its taken from XML. But you dont need to go there yoursef to look it up, as it (among tons of other stuff) is compiled in dj_anions reference sheets:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236346
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236346
I consider myself a peacefull/builder player. Not so much because I can't war but because I like to finish my games quick and the peaceful/tech way is just fastest in term of game time.
I'd say good diplo adds a lot to your winning chances. In a lot of my games I don't even need an army in modern age. Who needs armies if you can just dictate what the AI's are doing. Even if I go to war, I don't need a large army usually. Bribe my allies into a dogpile on my target, let them waste sod's and then I snatch weak defended cities. You know these AI's with a power rating that is through the roof? I like them v much.
Though I keep them bussy, bribing them into wars a lot. Being backstabbed is not pleasant.
Maybe some obvious tips:
- Try to decide on a diplo plan early in game already. I prefer allying aggressive AI's because they are easy to manipulate and the pay off can be great. Though they are usually more demanding. Still due their large armies, their tech speed is lower thus on higher difficulty I find them good to trade with. (what use is MM as an ally if you hardly have any techs on him)
- Make a long term diplo plan. Decide on what civs you plan to conquer throughout the game and try to find the AI's that will give you most benefit in the long run. Being able to 2v1 or 3v1 makes things a lot easier. Geography matters a lot.
- Help your allies, they help you. Don't be scared to give them good deals in tech trades. The more advanced they are, the better their military thus the more helpful they will be when it comes to war.
Same goes for demands, just give them w/e they want. (unless it's something really ridiculous)
- Don't try to get any -diplo. "-4 you traded with our worst enemies" is not something you want to see on your ally. Be aware of the diplomacy of all civs towards each other.
If you do have to declare war on an ai they're pleased with, make sure you can wipe them out with one declaration. Or even better try to get them out of pleased mode. (Bribe to stop trading, civics, convert, whatever is available)
I think diplomacy is a big part of the game. And imho good diplomacy requires as much thinking and planning as any other aspect.
And of course in some games you will just have a hard time diplomacy wise. It depends on the map as well. For example I find continents/fractal not challenging at all because diplo is too easy. A few games back I had a peaceful win on fractal without building any military. I'm talking about macemen being the most advanced unit I owned while launching my ship. Hence I like to play on landmasses to make it interesting.
I'd say good diplo adds a lot to your winning chances. In a lot of my games I don't even need an army in modern age. Who needs armies if you can just dictate what the AI's are doing. Even if I go to war, I don't need a large army usually. Bribe my allies into a dogpile on my target, let them waste sod's and then I snatch weak defended cities. You know these AI's with a power rating that is through the roof? I like them v much.
Though I keep them bussy, bribing them into wars a lot. Being backstabbed is not pleasant.Maybe some obvious tips:
- Try to decide on a diplo plan early in game already. I prefer allying aggressive AI's because they are easy to manipulate and the pay off can be great. Though they are usually more demanding. Still due their large armies, their tech speed is lower thus on higher difficulty I find them good to trade with. (what use is MM as an ally if you hardly have any techs on him)
- Make a long term diplo plan. Decide on what civs you plan to conquer throughout the game and try to find the AI's that will give you most benefit in the long run. Being able to 2v1 or 3v1 makes things a lot easier. Geography matters a lot.
- Help your allies, they help you. Don't be scared to give them good deals in tech trades. The more advanced they are, the better their military thus the more helpful they will be when it comes to war.
Same goes for demands, just give them w/e they want. (unless it's something really ridiculous)
- Don't try to get any -diplo. "-4 you traded with our worst enemies" is not something you want to see on your ally. Be aware of the diplomacy of all civs towards each other.
If you do have to declare war on an ai they're pleased with, make sure you can wipe them out with one declaration. Or even better try to get them out of pleased mode. (Bribe to stop trading, civics, convert, whatever is available)
I think diplomacy is a big part of the game. And imho good diplomacy requires as much thinking and planning as any other aspect.
And of course in some games you will just have a hard time diplomacy wise. It depends on the map as well. For example I find continents/fractal not challenging at all because diplo is too easy. A few games back I had a peaceful win on fractal without building any military. I'm talking about macemen being the most advanced unit I owned while launching my ship. Hence I like to play on landmasses to make it interesting.
The Rook
King
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 788
Ironically, the traits don't really affect how an AI civ behaves. Although many of the warmongers ahve the Aggressive trait, Hammurabi for instance, has a base peace weight of 8, and won't make a decision to attack when pleased.
Check the link Refar has supplied, it is HUGELY helpful.
The Rook
King
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 788
Backwards Logic
Emperor Palpatine
Thanks. I'll be checking that out next time I play.
Silence101
King
Madscientist's list a few comments back was pretty good as a general suggestion of Friendly civs - I'd probably add Egypt to the list, but he had some good recommendations. They tend to be your typical builder leaders.
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
I might be mistaken in this but it seems the YHTWOWE demerit is dependent upon the number of years that have passed so that if you get it early it will dissappear after a little while, whilst if you get it late you'll be stuck with it for a long time. This however might be an illusion that reflects the nature of the game that turns take more and more time to complete.
If my suspicion is correct then you can be a little more careless in your trades earlier on. It is also true that the early diplomacy between civilizations is more volatile than the diplomacy later on as the different factions expands and switches religions and civics as they encounter each other and aquires new technologies. I tend to be more careful with trades as the game prolongs.
If my suspicion is correct then you can be a little more careless in your trades earlier on. It is also true that the early diplomacy between civilizations is more volatile than the diplomacy later on as the different factions expands and switches religions and civics as they encounter each other and aquires new technologies. I tend to be more careful with trades as the game prolongs.
futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
I've gotten better at diplo over the past number of months. I used to be poor at it as well.
I have two tips:
1) Choose your friends and enemies. Seems simple, but it isn't always. You have to be prepared to bend over backwards, doing ANYTHING for your friends (which means being ready to war with them whenever) and doing NOTHING for your enemies. Trying to please everyone often ends up pleasing no one. Check for peoples' worst enemies and DO NOT trade with your friends worst enemies. Just think in real life: Would you befriend your best friend's worst enemy?
2) Warfare is one of your greatest allies. Part of good diplo imo is being a bit of a puppet master. Try and pit the AIs into war with each other. If they're hating each other and at war with each other, they're not hating and going to war against you. Of course you will get asked by your friends to join in the fun, so you have to be prepared for either legit or fake war. Religion can be a factor here so if you happen to found a couple mid-to-late religions and the early ones haven't dominated your continent, then spread them strategically where you give yours to your allies and another to your enemies.
I have two tips:
1) Choose your friends and enemies. Seems simple, but it isn't always. You have to be prepared to bend over backwards, doing ANYTHING for your friends (which means being ready to war with them whenever) and doing NOTHING for your enemies. Trying to please everyone often ends up pleasing no one. Check for peoples' worst enemies and DO NOT trade with your friends worst enemies. Just think in real life: Would you befriend your best friend's worst enemy?
2) Warfare is one of your greatest allies. Part of good diplo imo is being a bit of a puppet master. Try and pit the AIs into war with each other. If they're hating each other and at war with each other, they're not hating and going to war against you. Of course you will get asked by your friends to join in the fun, so you have to be prepared for either legit or fake war. Religion can be a factor here so if you happen to found a couple mid-to-late religions and the early ones haven't dominated your continent, then spread them strategically where you give yours to your allies and another to your enemies.
Artichoker
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,711
Religion is most often the key to diplomacy. There are basically 3 categories:
1) No state religion
This is the easiest type of rival civ to deal with. Maintain a positive image with these civs by having Open Border agreements and resource trades. You should target your friendly diplomacy at these civs, since they could be potentially friendly/unfriendly. If you play it right, they will be friendly, however. The best thing about these civs is that you can choose whatever state religion you want, and still have good relations with them.
2) Different state religion
This results in a borderline war situation, if you don't have strong positive factors to counteract the religion penalty. You can either adopt that civ's religion, to improve relations with that civ, or make that civ an enemy. Look at the religions of your closest neighbors. Then decide which neighbor will be your ally. Choose that neighbor's religion, and aim your war efforts on the "heathen" neighbors. If every religion choice results in enemies that are too powerful, then don't adopt a religion, or adopt Free Religion.
3) Same state religion
If you own the holy city for that religion, that is the best scenario. Most often, however, AI civs will adopt their own religion, and they will have the holy city for that religion. One thing you can try is develop a long-term friendship with that civ to build many pluses for diplomacy. After you get tired of that religion, switch to your own religion and hope that the pluses counteract the minuses.
1) No state religion
This is the easiest type of rival civ to deal with. Maintain a positive image with these civs by having Open Border agreements and resource trades. You should target your friendly diplomacy at these civs, since they could be potentially friendly/unfriendly. If you play it right, they will be friendly, however. The best thing about these civs is that you can choose whatever state religion you want, and still have good relations with them.
2) Different state religion
This results in a borderline war situation, if you don't have strong positive factors to counteract the religion penalty. You can either adopt that civ's religion, to improve relations with that civ, or make that civ an enemy. Look at the religions of your closest neighbors. Then decide which neighbor will be your ally. Choose that neighbor's religion, and aim your war efforts on the "heathen" neighbors. If every religion choice results in enemies that are too powerful, then don't adopt a religion, or adopt Free Religion.
3) Same state religion
If you own the holy city for that religion, that is the best scenario. Most often, however, AI civs will adopt their own religion, and they will have the holy city for that religion. One thing you can try is develop a long-term friendship with that civ to build many pluses for diplomacy. After you get tired of that religion, switch to your own religion and hope that the pluses counteract the minuses.
fjordan
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2007
- Messages
- 210
Another tip: if you gift a tech, no matter how backward, upon first contact, you always get an instant +4 "trade relations" modifier. Makes it much easier to stay pleased after that. It is a bit of a gamble though, you don't always know who's worst enemy your new friend is.
OTAKUjbski
TK421
Is that a bug / exploit?
Also, I'm pretty sure you can open the Diplomatic Advisor window while the trade window is active, so you should be able to check relations before gifting anything.
futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
I didn't think you could open the advisor window. Can anyone verify that that is possible? Also, I don't think the +4 bonus is an exploit afaik.
semirami
The Wolf
You can open the foreign advisor, or any other advisor. The +4 bonus is true.
OTAKUjbski
TK421
)
fjordan
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2007
- Messages
- 210
Well, for your comfort, it will fade away pretty quickly if you keep it at that. And even if you use F4, you don't know his relations with people you have not met yet. I believe you will get the negative modifier once you meet the rest, but I am not sure about that. Still, it is something I always consider.
Similar threads
