Discussion: Units

[Dibukk]

Is the list of superheroes finished? The list at the beginning of the thread still doesn't mention superheroes for France, Persia, Shambhala and Spain.
If you have already decided which superheroes to use, feel free to ignore my suggestions:
France: Le Nytalope (I guess you are already using that one)
Persia: the Prince of Persia (yes, I suggest him once more )
Shambhala: I've got several ideas: I Ching, Kai-ro (a Green Lantern version), and Thunderlord
Spain: Vega from Street Fighter

Are you sure about Bruce Lee? I mean, he plays in a completely different league than heroes like Superman or Namor. You might want to look into the Great Ten, Shang-Chi, Radioactive Man (NOT the Simpsons character) or the Collective Man ("the collective strength of all of the people of China" should be strong enough).

On an unrelated topic, the French UU should be called 'Conquérant des Nuages' ('des' is needed when there is a plural like 'nuages').

 

[cfkane]

Sorry the list hasn't been updated, but Le Nyctalope will be the French superhero and Rauda Chakrin will be Shambhala's. I'll give the Persian and Spanish ones some thought.

I wasn't sure about Bruce Lee, but I wanted a character who represented modern Chinese culture rather than other people's visions of modern Chinese culture. I'll give the other suggestions some thought nonetheless.

 

[Dibukk]

I wasn't sure about Bruce Lee, but I wanted a character who represented modern Chinese culture rather than other people's visions of modern Chinese culture. I'll give the other suggestions some thought nonetheless.

Than I really advise you to look up the Great Ten. Even though they are DC Comics superheroes, they were made by Chinese and are sponsored by the government of the People's Republic of China. Interestingly, they are usually called 'super-functionaries' because the communist Chinese ethos rejects the word 'heroes' for a humbler one.

 

[cfkane]

Than I really advise you to look up the Great Ten. Even though they are DC Comics superheroes, they were made by Chinese and are sponsored by the government of the People's Republic of China. Interestingly, they are usually called 'super-functionaries' because the communist Chinese ethos rejects the word 'heroes' for a humbler one.

Very interesting! I'll see what I can do.

 

[Dumanios]

The community design worked so well last time, I decided to do the same with the superheroes. Here are the stats I have for Superman, which should serve as a standard template for the other heroes. Feel free to suggest any modifications.

Name: Superman
Combat: Hero (Hovering)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Fission
Cost: 750
Moves: 8
Combat: 40
AirCombat: 26
Free Promotions: Celebrity 3
Abilities: Ignores Terrain Cost, Can Move All Terrain, Can Move in Impassable Terrain, Immune to Nukes, can't Pillage, 25 percent chance of withdrawal, Cannot Capture Cities.

40 Strength? I don't really think that 40 Strength would cut it once 70 Strength Dreadnought Tanks,60 Strength Assult Mechs,65 Strength Gundams and 80 Strength Borg Cubes are running around.

 

[cfkane]

Okay, I'll try ramping it up. But keep in mind that the Superheroes appear in the Modern age, not the Future age.

 

[Dumanios]

Point taken,but still I do accentuate the super in superheroes.

 

[mikemits]

Have you found the art for all these heroes?

 

[cfkane]

At the moment, no. What I do have is a superhero unit that can serve as a base for other supers. I've downloaded a few textures from some modding sites devoted to a game called Freedom Force, a superhero game with a fairly extensive modding community itself. Once I get the chance, I'll post a screencap of the models for Superman, Black Adam, Marvelman and Samaritan that I have ready.

Of course, not all of the units fit the basic Superman model (hovering male in skintight costume, cape optional). For that I'll need to raid the downloads database.

EDIT: Here's the screenshot

 

[Dibukk]

I discouvered two minor spelling errors: The French UU has to be renamed 'Conquérant des Nuages' ('du' is the wrong form) and the Great General name 'Deitrich von Bern' is wrong, it should be Dietrich.

 

[Dibukk]

Alright, it's time for me to contribute for the superheroes. I'm using a strength of 50 for Superman, as cfkane stated he will become stronger (in case Superman is going to be significantly stronger/weaker than 50 balancing will be needed).

Ajak

Spoiler :

Name: Ajak
Civilization: Incas
Combat: Hero (Hovering)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Rocketry
Cost: 760
Moves: 6
Combat: 45
AirCombat: 26
Free Promotions: Blitz
Abilities: 2 first strikes, Ignores Terrain Cost, Can Move All Terrain, Can Move in Impassable Terrain, Immune to Nukes, can't Pillage, 35% chance of withdrawal, Cannot Capture Cities
Art: based on cfkane's superhero model

Doomsman II

Spoiler :

Name: Doomsman II
Civilization: Freedo-Moronika
Combat: Hero (Assault Mech)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Laser
Cost: 760
Moves: 4
Combat: 57
Range: 2
Free Promotions: Authority, Blitz
Abilities: Ignores Terrain Cost, Can intercept aircraft (100% chance), 10% chance of withdrawal
Art: large, golden version of either the Cyborg or the Assault Mecha

Kratos

Spoiler :

Name: Kratos
Civilization: Greece
Combat: Hero (Melee)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Mass Media
Cost: 740
Moves: 2
Combat: 45
Free Promotions: Amphibious, Authority, Commando, Leadership, Resurrection I
Abilities: +50% against Heroes
Art: uses two blades, thus probably based on Archer

Le Nyctalope

Spoiler :

Name: Le Nyctalope
Civilization: France
Combat: Hero (Spy)
Domain: Land
AI: Spy
Prereqs: Scientific Method
Cost: 730
Moves: 4
Combat: 35
Free Promotions: Commando
Abilities: Invisible, +2 Visibility Range, 2 first strikes, Immune to first strikes, Exposes rival spies, can see invisible units, 20% chance of withdrawal, Can't pillage, Cannot capture cities
Art: --

Marvelman

Spoiler :

Name: Marvelman
Civilization: England
Combat: Hero (Hovering)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Fission
Cost: 750
Moves: 6
Combat: 50
AirCombat: 26
Free Promotions: Celebrity III, Leadership
Abilities: Ignores Terrain Cost, Can Move All Terrain, Can Move in Impassable Terrain, Immune to Nukes, can't Pillage, +25% City Defence, 15% chance of withdrawal, Cannot Capture Cities
Art: already done by cfkane

Namor

Spoiler :

Name: Namor
Civilization: Atlantis
Combat: Hero (Melee)
Domain: Land, Sea
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Ecology
Cost: 260
Moves: 4
Combat: 43
Free Promotions: Amphibious, Sentry
Abilities: Invisible to Most Units, Can Move over Water, Can See Submarines, +100% vs. Submarines and Naval units, Can Attack without Declaring War
Art: --

Omega Red

Spoiler :

Name: Omega Red
Civilization: Russia
Combat: Hero (Armored)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Plastics
Cost: 760
Moves: 4
Combat: 50
Free Promotions: Commando
Abilities: Immune to first strikes, Hidden nationality, 15% chance of healing completly after combat victory, Causes collateral damage, Immune to Nukes, Cannot Capture Cities
Art: --

Samaritan

Spoiler :

Name: Samaritan
Civilization: Utopia
Combat: Hero (Hovering)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Mass Media
Cost: 760
Moves: 15
Combat: 45
AirCombat: 34
Free Promotions: Celebrity III, Garison I
Abilities: Ignores Terrain Cost, Can Move All Terrain, Can Move in Impassable Terrain, Immune to Nukes, can't Pillage, 35% chance of withdrawal, Cannot Capture Cities
Art: already done by cfkane

Storm

Spoiler :

Name: Storm
Civilization: Zulu
Combat: Hero (Hovering)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Ecology
Cost: 750
Moves: 7
Combat: 43
AirCombat: 30
Range: 4
Free Promotions: Celebrity II, Blitz
Abilities: 3 first strikes, Ignores Terrain Cost, Can Move All Terrain, Can intercept aircraft (75% chance), Can bombard city defenses (-15%/turn), 15 percent chance of withdrawal, Cannot Capture Cities
Art: --

Tarzan

Spoiler :

Name: Tarzan
Civilization: Mali
Combat: Hero (Melee)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Biology
Cost: 230
Moves: 2
Combat: 37
Free Promotions: Amphibious, Guerilla II, Mobility, Woodsman III
Abilities: Ignores terrain movement cost, +100% vs animals, beasts and beast heroes, can't pillage, Cannot Capture Cities
Art: based on Warrior

Teth Adam

Spoiler :

Name: Teth Adam
Civilization: Egypt
Combat: Hero (Hovering)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Fission
Cost: 740
Moves: 9
Combat: 46
AirCombat: 28
Free Promotions: Blitz
Abilities: Hidden nationality, Ignores Terrain Cost, Can Move All Terrain, Can Move in Impassable Terrain, Immune to Nukes, 35% chance of withdrawal, Cannot Capture Cities
Art: already done by cfkane

The Master

Spoiler :

Name: The Master
Civilization: Transylvania
Combat: Hero (Spy)
Domain: Land
AI: Spy, City Defense
Prereqs: Refrigeration
Cost: 750
Moves: 4
Combat: 40
Free Promotions: Authority, Sentry, Resurrection II, March
Abilities: Can explore rival territory, Invisible, Exposes rival spies, 30% chance of healing completly after combat victory, Immune to Nukes, 40% chance of withdrawal, Cannot Capture Cities
Art: based on Zombie, Nosferatu or Frankenstein's monster

Thor

Spoiler :

Name: Thor
Civilization: Vikings
Combat: Hero (Hovering)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Electricity
Cost: 760
Moves: 7
Combat: 53
AirCombat: 20
Free Promotions: Celebrity II, Resurrection II
Abilities: Ignores Terrain Cost, Can Move All Terrain, Can Move in Impassable Terrain, Immune to Nukes, Cannot Capture Cities, Can bombard city defenses (-20%/turn)
Art: --

X-O Manowar

Spoiler :

Name: X-O Manowar
Civilization: Celts
Combat: Hero (Melee)
Domain: Land
AI: Attack, City Defense
Prereqs: Plastics
Cost: 270
Moves: 3
Combat: 55
Free Promotions: Blitz, March, Mobility, Woodsman II
Abilities: Immune to First Strikes, Immune to Nukes, Causes collateral damage, +70% against Melee units
Art: high-tech armored version of the Axeman

More to come.

EDIT: Oops, sorry, I didn't realize I was double-posting. My bad.
EDIT 2: Added Ajak, Namor and Omega Red
EDIT 3: Voila, another update! This time I added Kratos, Marvelman, Teth Adam and X-O Manowar. Plus, I updated Le Nyctalope. Any feedback would be highly appreciated!

 

[johnny139]

Hmm, I was thinking about a possible addition, along with superheroes - supervillains. Perhaps, after you've build a superhero, there's a possibility that a supervillain will appear at one of your cities and begin terrorizing things. Normal units have a disadvantage against them - if you want to beat this guy, you better roll out tanks, and lots of 'em - while superheroes have an advantage. It would be a generic unit, I imagine - like, just an average evil guy in a cape - though individuals would be interesting.

The argument for it is, well, it gives your superhero something to do outside of wartime, adds a disadvantage to the production of a massively powerful unit... maybe make it so that spies can cause a supervillain to appear in a foreign city, distracting your opponent's hero during a war. Plus, with fewer barbarians and such late in the game, some random-spawn enemies would be nice, y'know?

Not sure if it's feasible, but I think it's an interesting idea.

 

[cfkane]

That's not a bad idea! Once I get the next installment out (which will add superheroes) I suppose I could do a version that focuses on barbarian units.

Though it may need to be just one or two supervillain characters; I don't want to do a counterpart for each Superhero. It was hard enough finding just one for each culture.

Plus, I'd been planning a series of late-game barbarian units. The zombies are already in place, and I was planning on adding alien invasion events. You know, Tripods, Triffids, Daleks, things like that. But that's for a later time.

 

[mikemits]

Hi everyone.
I really dig the supervillains idea.I believe that coming up with a supervillain for each superhero isn't hard at all,the work is propably already been done.Every hero worth his/her salt has at least an archnemesis(however the artwork must be a huge pain).
I don't know either what I'm about to suggest is feasible but I think it's interesting so hear me out.
Each time a nation builds a superhero,the option to build the corresponding supervillain is unlocked for all the other nations...for example when America builds Superman every other nation can build Lex Luthor.The minute the villain is built,a war breaks out between the two nations (or their relations take a big hit.If you follow comics,think of the relations between US and Latveria).
In the example above,I understand that Superman's first choice rival would be Doomsday,as they appear to be equally powerful but chosing Lex brings up some interesting possibilites.My idea is that Luthor would not be great at fighting but would provide insane science bonuses ( not free technologies but a greatly accelerated research rate). That way,the nation with superman would have to try to take down the Luthor unit ASAP,instead of just going to war with another nation or even waging just an imperialistic war with superman at the frontlines as another heavy powered unit.Of course,that would mean that the player would have to use superman against Luthor (meaning each hero unit would have bonuses against its' rival). Superman and Luthor are just examples,read Conan and a wizard,Namor and Richards etc.
Hope I wasn't too confusing.If that's the case I'll be happy to try and clear everything up.
All in all,I propose that when a hero is built,the villain unlocks for every other nation (so noone can built a villain first and have the bonuses without at least one other player having the power to bring them down) and that the villain is more suitable for staying in cities and such instead of going to war (thus having a lair).

On an unrelated note,something that I meant to ask you guys ages ago but just popped in my head again..in the latest patches of ffh2,when a hero appears every nation gets a box with the heroe's picture and a small bio.Could that be transfered to Fictionalization?

 

[cfkane]

The last part seems doable.

But again, late game barbarian units are already planned and should give the superhero units something useful to do in peacetime. Plus, the Superhero units are already countered by other superheroes. I'm not wild about the supervillain idea.

 

[cfkane]

I've decided to ditch Kulan Gath as Hyborea's hero. I initially changed it to Red Sonja but instead I decided to use a character from a different prehistoric fantasy series: Elric of Melnibone. His sword, Stormbringer, is said to be able to slay gods (Warcraft fans may know Elric as the basis for Arthas' backstory). I'm also leaning towards the August General in Iron from DC Comic's Great Ten for China's hero.

I've also been working on some art for the units, and I should be able to post a screenshot of what I've done so far in the not too distant future.

 

[Moogi]

I'm still not sold on Kratos as a superhero. I like God of War, but there's a problem: superheros are modern. Kratos... isn't. I liked the old idea of using Wonder Woman, since the Amazons are linked to Greek mythology. That said, I wouldn't mind if Kratos were, say, another Greek leader.

 

[cfkane]

Yes, but it was pointed out to me that the mod has already established the Amazons as separate from the Greeks with the Alliance with Thermiscyra, so it would be inconsistent.

 

[mikemits]

Hey cfkane,can you give us a ETA?

 

[Moogi]

Yes, but it was pointed out to me that the mod has already established the Amazons as separate from the Greeks with the Alliance with Thermiscyra, so it would be inconsistent.

Didn't notice that. Okay, Kratos, you can stay.