Discussion: Units

[johnny139]

I'm not sure what system you're using exactly for Superheroes, and I wouldn't want (or expect) you to change what you're doing now, but, bear with me for a minute.

Now, I believe in order to build a Superhero, you first need to build a "Super Soldier" Program of some sorts. Right? Or was that scrapped? I'm not sure. BUT, if so... along with the "iconic" superhero, would it be possible to create a generic "Captain [Country]?" It would be much weaker than a full superhero, but still a powerful unit that could, I dunno, be attached as a leader or just go fight off enemies all on their own. Art probably based on Captain America, but with the "multicolor" part replacing his blue and a more generic shield.

Again, if you've gotten rid of the "building a wonder" requirement, it's entirely out of the question, but, I dunno, just thought it would be interesting to have some "mini-supers" running around with the big guys.

 

[cfkane]

Well, I always thought the "mini-supers" as you call them would just be regular heroes that function like the other characters in the game. It's true that I dropped the Super Soldier requirement, but I could imagine Captain America as a modern hero (Although he would have to be named with a special XML call so he can be called Captain England or Captain Mali if needed)

At the moment there aren't many heroes for the modern era that aren't superheroes. I had considered Wolverine, since there's already unit art for him in the database.

But then again, that's for another version.

 

[cfkane]

Okay, here's a pic of some more of the Superhero art I have so far.

From left to right, top to bottom:

Namor, XO Manowar, Doomsman II, Heinrich I, Elric, Ajak, Goku, Tarzan, Gozer, The Master, Thor, and Storm

 

[Moogi]

Looking good!

By the way, if you're looking for some modern heroes that aren't super, might I suggest adding Jenny Everywhere to the mod? As far as I'm aware, she's not really a fighter, but I love the idea of the character, and I think she would fit into the world of the mod. I suggested making her basically a Great Person jack-of-all-trades in an earlier post (i.e., giving her pretty much all the other Great Person abilities at once), so that might work.

 

[johnny139]

Storm looks a tad... how do you say... tough?

Great overall, though; I particularly like Thor. He really pops, with the colors and such. Goku, too.

 

[The_J]

Gozer looks like in the film .

 

[Dumanios]

Storm looks a bit masculine.

 

[johnny139]

I'm still not sold on Kratos as a superhero. I like God of War, but there's a problem: superheros are modern. Kratos... isn't. I liked the old idea of using Wonder Woman, since the Amazons are linked to Greek mythology. That said, I wouldn't mind if Kratos were, say, another Greek leader.

I was just thinking and reading up on things when I remembered - in the PSP version of SoulCalibur, which takes place in the late 1500s, Kratos is a playable character. It's not explained HOW, but, it's obvious he's immortal or traveling through time or something.

So, Kratos in the modern world would be justifiable.

...

Just thought I'd bring it up.

 

[cfkane]

Okay, all but five of the heroes have their stats in place, though there are several that don't have artwork yet (which can be easily filled in a later patch). The five that aren't yet programed are Gozer (Sumeria), Raudra Shakrin (Shambhala), and the Chinese, Spanish and Persian heroes. I have yet to decide on the latter two, but I think the August General in Iron would be a good fit for China.

So I just need help on stats and suggestions for these five and I can finish up the last touches of the next installment.

 

[johnny139]

I just found what I THINK could work for Persia - Malaak, Angel of Peace. As I understand it - I've yet to read too much - Malaak is an angel, sent to modern day Lebanon in the body of a young girl. When she becomes an adult, she discovers her abilities via a hippocampus or something like that. Using her super powers, she fights to end a civil war in the region. I think. Her powers are energy blasts, beams, and so forth.

I think it could work.

 

[cfkane]

Good find, but I think that would only work as a fallback. She's Lebanese after all, not Persian.

 

[johnny139]

Well, Persia had Lebanon once, right? I mean, yeah, so did Rome and Arabia and a bunch of other countries, but...

...as far as Iranian - "modern" Persia - heroes go, well, there's really not too many. There's The Prince from Prince of Persia, which is less than ideal, since he's fairly ancient and not quite super. There's also Black Raazer, neither of which are heroes; in fact, they're supervillains. And, on the whole, they've only really fought for Iraq, in the Gulf War.

On the other hand, there are the DC characters Sirocco and Super-Shayk, who, if Wikipedia is accurate, are Iranian superheroes. But I can't find a drop of information on them, so I doubt that's too useful.

If you're willing to stretch things a bit, there's Dust, who, as of late, has been a (somewhat) major X-Men character. She's Afghan, not Iranian, but there ARE some Persian-speaking ethnic groups in Afghanistan - the Hazara, for example - so, it's POSSIBLE. It would definitely be a "status-over-accuracy" choice, though.

So, not sure what you wanna go with. Personally, I think Black Raazer is the coolest - his got a black scimitar that holds ancient evil magic! - but, y'know, it's definitely a tough choice.

As for Spaniards, we have Brava, who's a woman with super strength; born in Spain, lived in Spain, moved to Peru, became a global heroine. Empath, whose power is emotional control, PROBABLY wouldn't make for a very interesting superhero, but he's there. El Aguila is a Spanish superhero based on Zorro - he spends a lot of his time in America, but DOES fight crime in Spain, as well, and would certainly satisfy the swashbuckling hero archetype. If you want to go into villains, there's Vega from Street Fighter, Gideon, another mutant, and even Cervantes de Leon from SoulCalibur, an immortal zombie pirate type guy.

Or you could always go with THE MATADOR!

So, there's a lot of choices; mostly of them are pretty obscure, but they're Spanish, they're superheroes, so, there you go. I like El Aguila, myself - he's not quite Superman-level in strength, but he's got a cool power (electricity!) and he's the most straightforwardly heroic and Spanish of them all.

And August General in Iron makes for a good Chinest choice, if I hadn't mentioned it.

 

[cfkane]

A zombie pirate?

Must.

Use.

 

[Dumanios]

Needs Steampunk Mechas, Tanks and Airships.

 

[cfkane]

We already have a steampunk airship. It's the French LU. It just doesn't have artwork yet.

 

[The_J]

In one of the FfH2 modmods (don't know which one) the Kuriotates have an airship UU, which could maybe fit here.

 

[Dibukk]

First of all there has been some confusion how Kratos can be used as a modern day superhero. Don't forget that Kratos is, in fact, a god. And since when are gods mortal?

Well, It's time to finish the superheroes, so here are some ideas. Personally, I think that Cervantes de Leon, the Prince and August General in Iron would be the best choices.

August General in Iron

Spoiler :

Name: August General in Iron
Civilization: China
Combat: Hero (Armored)
Domain: Land
Prereqs: Industrialism
Cost: 740
Moves: 3
Combat: 55
Free Promotions: Authority, Medic II
Abilities: Immune to Nukes, Exposes rival spies, Can't Pillage, Cannot Capture Cities

Cervantes de León

I don't know SoulCalibur myself, but an immortal Spanish zombie super-pirate? That's a dream coming true!
I did some research (all hail Wikipedia!) and it seems, correct me if I'm wrong, Cervantes is really more of a skilled swordsman than a pirate sailing around with a ship. Thus I decided against making him a sea unit.

Spoiler :

Name: Cervantes de León
Civilization: Spain
Combat: Hero (Melee
Domain: Land
Prereqs: Combustion
Cost: 760
Moves: 2
Combat: 42
Free Promotions: Amphibious, Blitz, Resurrection II
Abilities: Hidden nationality, Immune to First Strikes, Immune to Nukes, Cannot Capture Cities, +30% against Heroes, 20% chance of healing completly after combat victory

The Prince

Johnny139 said that the Prince would be no perfect choice as he is "fairly ancient and not quite super". Well, both of these problems can be solved by considering the Prince's most important ability - the power to manipulate time. In terms of gameplay this grants him a high chance of withdrawal (think of his reversal abilities) plus first strikes and Resurrection.
Furthermore, the Dagger of Time made the Prince immortal (plus I suppose that time manipulation is a rather effective anti-aging skill) and his powers are undenieable if we consider that he battled power demigods and such.

Spoiler :

Name: The Prince
Civilization: Persia
Combat: Hero (Melee)
Domain: Land
Prereqs: Mass Media
Cost: 740
Moves: 3
Combat: 37
Free Promotions: Resurrection II
Abilities: 2 first strikes, Immune to first strikes, 70% Chance of Withdrawal, City Raider I

Not sure what to do about Raudra Chakrin and Gozer.

 

[johnny139]

Cervantes, yeah, that seems about right - may want to tone down his strength a bit, though, as I doubt he'd be too much stronger than the Prince or Tarzan. Then again, he can take on Kratos, too, so, yeah, actually, mid-to-low 40s wouldn't be off. Do we have a "Vampirism" ability, though, where you regenerate health from destroying units? That's Cervantes' thing - Soul Edge steals, well, souls, to nourish him - so, it would make sense.

No idea how to do up stats, but for Gozer, well, he/she'd be pretty darn strong, I think, and fast at attacking - first strikes, blitz, like that. Maybe a high chance of withdrawal, via dimensional control and such? Start with Industrialism, since they needed that building and stuff to summon him/her. Something like that.

No idea on Raudra, though. Never heard of the guy.

 

[Dibukk]

Cervantes, yeah, that seems about right - may want to tone down his strength a bit, though, as I doubt he'd be too much stronger than the Prince or Tarzan. Then again, he can take on Kratos, too, so, yeah, actually, mid-to-low 40s wouldn't be off. Do we have a "Vampirism" ability, though, where you regenerate health from destroying units? That's Cervantes' thing - Soul Edge steals, well, souls, to nourish him - so, it would make sense.

No idea on Raudra, though. Never heard of the guy.

I've canged Cervantes a bit, lowering his strength to 40 (somewhere in the middle of Tarzan and Namor/Storm and as strong as The Master) and adding a Vampirism ability. If there is a real Vampirism promotion, by all means, add it!

Raudra Chakrin is a Shambhalese king prophesied to unite the world under Shambhalese rule at some point in the future. He is described as a "living Buddha" meaning he is the state of perfect enlightenment. Buddhist experts sometimes interpret this as him having great supernatural powers. Imagine him like a powerful Bodhisattva (you know, the Shambhalese LU).

Speaking of which, I've been thinking and I came to the conclusion that it would make more sense to swap the Bodhisattva (Shambhalese LU) and the Shaolin Monk (Buddhist LU). Shaolins were monks coming from the Himalayas and, more traditionally, from Henan Province, Central China. Thus they a geographically near Shambhala but quite a distance away from Buddhist realms such as, say, India and the Khmer. On the other hand, Bodhisattvas are common to all types of Buddhism, not only to the Shambhalese form of Tantric Buddhism. Furthermore, I think that Buddhism itself is more peaceful than Shambhala, thus a combat unit fits the latter better.

 

[cfkane]

Hm, you're right. I'll change that right away.