Maybe you are, but it seems to ave worked on you judging by your post above. Also I want to stress this thread is not just about Russian misinformation. Its about it globally wit a focus on the 2020 election in the US. Russia is very guilty yes but they are not alone by any stretch.
Maybe you are, but it seems to ave worked on you judging by your post above. Also I want to stress this thread is not just about Russian misinformation. Its about it globally wit a focus on the 2020 election in the US. Russia is very guilty yes but they are not alone by any stretch.
It’s easy to throw blame around on random groups of people. Politicians normally do it to divert attention. Doesn’t get you closer to understanding processes behind modern crowd influencing techniques, and what causes them. Also, I’ll have you know that guilt is binary. One can’t be ‘very guilty’. It’s either guilty or not guilty. Assigning magnitude to guilt is manipulation. A cheap one.
It’s easy to throw blame around on random groups of people. Politicians normally do it to divert attention. Doesn’t get you closer to understanding processes behind modern crowd influencing techniques, and what causes them. Also, I’ll have you know that guilt is binary. One can’t be ‘very guilty’. It’s either guilty or not guilty. Assigning magnitude to guilt is manipulation. A cheap one.
I'd like to nitpick this, for two (sets of) reasons.
1. This isn't a courtroom. Defining guilty as a binary doesn't help understand the nuance behind a particular interaction, or set of interactions. Certain actions are more inexcusable than others, and thus weighing the guilt relatively helps people understand the spectrum of events being discussed.
2. People assign magnitude to claims all the time and it's barely ever picked up on. It's a common enough, a human enough thing. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of it, but it seems weird to pick on it here just because . . . Russia is being mentioned? Or because it relates to the US election of 2016? I'm not sure; I don't want to assume. There will be a reason for your objection though, as much as there's a reason for Estebonrober using "very guilty" in the first place. None of us are robots, we all good at complex reasoning and our decisions are not often made in a vacuum.
Oh, Gorbles, just a simple demonstration of how opinion is manipulated through assigning magnitude where one is completely irrelevant. If Russian citizens are guilty, then their behaviour is completely, utterly inexcusable and worthy of universal condemnation. Being guilty is enough, lol. No need to go very guilty.
I've read through most of the thread and in particular the latter part. What is it about the Russians I am supposed to be so wary of? I don't think I once saw any Russian propaganda over the last five years, but I've certainly heard of it being this crisis that has utterly destroyed our republic!
Or is it that Trump won, Clinton lost, and the Trump opponents (not necessarily pro-Clinton) have tried to glom on to any excuse that absolves them of having a candidate that can't perform as well as Obama?
Guilty means Russians are spreading propaganda.
Very guilty means "Their corruption of the entire planet is palpable for just about every citizen on the planet" (c)
Oh, Gorbles, just a simple demonstration of how opinion is manipulated through assigning magnitude where one is completely irrelevant. If Russian citizens are guilty, then their behaviour is completely, utterly inexcusable and worthy of universal condemnation. Being guilty is enough, lol. No need to go very guilty.
I honestly can't tell if this is meant to be sarcasm or not. Singling out Russian citizens is odd, at any rate
Besides, there's a far better example of my issues with the binary, or reductive, presentation of a complex issue. Take amadeus' post, above. Not only does it have the spectacular line of "well i haven't seen it" (inferred as "therefore it doesn't exist", which would be an assumption if not for the final line of the post), but it reduces the complexity of the 2016 election to either interference happened, or it didn't happen and Trump's opponents are looking for excuses. Both could be true! It could've happened and Trump's opponents could still be failing to analyse why Trump won.
I dislike binary thinking in general, for complex situations. It's nearly-always far too reductive. Occam's Razor is a principle, not a law to apply to everything on Earth!
(it also helps disinformation - by reducing the scope of discussion to "did happen" or "did not happen", it means you can argue around a point without commiting wholly to it, but so long as you present it as being close to one or the other, it's seen as acceptable)
Guilty means Russians are spreading propaganda.
Very guilty means "Their corruption of the entire planet is palpable for just about every citizen on the planet" (c)
Russian citizenry doesn;t seem to be guilty of muc at all actually, except the soviet era cynicism they are so well known for. . .which is spreading and it is a form of plague to political discourse.
I've read through most of the thread and in particular the latter part. What is it about the Russians I am supposed to be so wary of? I don't think I once saw any Russian propaganda over the last five years, but I've certainly heard of it being this crisis that has utterly destroyed our republic!
Or is it that Trump won, Clinton lost, and the Trump opponents (not necessarily pro-Clinton) have tried to glom on to any excuse that absolves them of having a candidate that can't perform as well as Obama?
You probably did see Russian propaganda if you were on facebook or twitter, its not like it comes with a disclaimer. Anyways the purpose of the thread is about misinformation in general its not supposed to be just about Russian government.
It’s easy to throw blame around on random groups of people. Politicians normally do it to divert attention. Doesn’t get you closer to understanding processes behind modern crowd influencing techniques, and what causes them. Also, I’ll have you know that guilt is binary. One can’t be ‘very guilty’. It’s either guilty or not guilty. Assigning magnitude to guilt is manipulation. A cheap one.
Think of it like breaking a diet. If you have a snickers bar you are probably guilty of breaking the diet, if you eat a sleeve of oreos you are very guilty of breaking the diet. Degrees are important.
After all the US is very big on propaganda and has been for 100 years, its just that this level of pernicious propaganda is overwhelming all sense in the world. The rich oligarchs and kleptocrats around the world are winning.
The Kremlin has long been an innovator in this area. (A 2011 manual for Russian civil servants favorably compared their methods of disinformation to “an invisible radiation” that takes effect while “the population doesn’t even feel it is being acted upon.”)
You probably did see Russian propaganda if you were on facebook or twitter, its not like it comes with a disclaimer. Anyways the purpose of the thread is about misinformation in general its not supposed to be just about Russian government.
I think broadly speaking domestic misinformation does more harm than any deliberate foreign intervention; I'm not accusing you of taking the other side, just that I wouldn't suspect any foreign interference to be the game-changer in an election.
Following politics on Facebook or Twitter will either make you the dumbest or the most cynical person in the world. Thankfully, it has had no effect on me because I not get dummy from politics on internet I get smarterer.
I think broadly speaking domestic misinformation does more harm than any deliberate foreign intervention; I'm not accusing you of taking the other side, just that I wouldn't suspect any foreign interference to be the game-changer in an election.
Following politics on Facebook or Twitter will either make you the dumbest or the most cynical person in the world. Thankfully, it has had no effect on me because I not get dummy from politics on internet I get smarterer.
Yea the point of the thread and article is largely about domestic misinformation campaigns. I have significantly less interest in all the Russian garbage then I do the Trump Campaigns stated intention of using whatever Psyops warfare stuff they can muster in 2020.
of course since Russia is so good at this in their homeland they are pertinent to the discussion.
Among those named in the lengthy document titled Ukraine, Disinformation, & the Trump Administration, put together by Fox News senior political affairs specialist Bryan S Murphy, are frequent guests Rudy Giuliani, John Solomon, Victoria Toensing and Joe diGenova.
This is the kind of thing I’m talking about. Yes. A lot of it is just noise too. Just to cloud the discussions. There is no intent upon even setting a narrative sometimes. Giuliani himself has been guilty of throwing lies out and then called on it later just totally denies it being a problem that he told lies. Not even trying to adjust the lie or anything.
I heard analysis about that from Aaron Mate - they were troll farms in pursuit of money with clickbait, they spent around 100k with a majority of it spent after the election and some of it unrelated to politics. If you want people to click your link you need to appeal to their interests. I remember watching testimony shown on Jimmy Dore of a Google bigshot telling a congressional committee about 3k was spent on their site.
This is the kind of thing I’m talking about. Yes. A lot of it is just noise too. Just to cloud the discussions. There is no intent upon even setting a narrative sometimes. Giuliani himself has been guilty of throwing lies out and then called on it later just totally denies it being a problem that he told lies. Not even trying to adjust the lie or anything.
Yea the point of the thread and article is largely about domestic misinformation campaigns. I have significantly less interest in all the Russian garbage then I do the Trump Campaigns stated intention of using whatever Psyops warfare stuff they can muster in 2020.
of course since Russia is so good at this in their homeland they are pertinent to the discussion.
After all the US is very big on propaganda and has been for 100 years, its just that this level of pernicious propaganda is overwhelming all sense in the world.
Do you think US propaganda is not directed at you or not influencing your opinion?
And by the way, have you read a single positive article about Russia in US mainstream media, for the last three years?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
