Diversica for WoC

[mamba]

I cannot agree on that. I always see my box busy at load XML stage while HD LED idle(my box is quite new, 8G RAM, run a 64bit OS, disable OS pagefile, so almost everything is cache in RAM after they're read once).

The point is they need to be read once, and that one time takes more time and it is happening during the xml reading stage.

One sign of complexity is dependancy: much more cross checking and step-on calculating are need in WoC than regular XML.

WoC adds much, much more flexibility to the game, in trade of increasing of complexity and overhead.

Your CPU is fast, you will not notice that, we are talking a few milliseconds here, I doubt it adds up to even one second. There also is not that much more checking necessary, here are the steps I expect are additional

- read MLF to determine order of reading actual definitions
- read actual definitions
- for each definition, check nothing whatsoever (over what CIV already checks) unless there are dependencies
- if there are dependencies, check that all dependencies are met (i.e. all definitions it depends on have already been read)
- if all have been read, everything is fine
- if one or more definitions are missing, discard this definition

That is it, actually that is next to nothing. It does not try to figure out a way to somehow merge all those definitions in the best possible way and juggle the dependencies while doing so, I agree that would be complex.

If you want to see how much of it is due to your HD, just unpak my FPKs and move them out of assets, then you will see how much time it takes to load small art files compared to large FPKs

This might be a rule of nature; but if the overhead can easely go beyond the endurance of a regular player, that could mean the project is going too far on flexibility side.

imo the real problem would be the unpaked art, which is why I still pak it (while the WoC rule is not to do so as it then cannot be removed if you do not use it).

As to the longer loading time, given that you load for a minute and play for an hour or more, the additional load time should not matter that much.

 

[tucoow]

As to the longer loading time, given that you load for a minute and play for an hour or more, the additional load time should not matter that much.

Sure.

But for modders (just like me) trying their modification load/try/exit frequently, this load time is too long. Maybe there's better way to try (no need to start game from desktop/exit each time), and I don't know it so I'm again using a stupid way?

 

[mamba]

But for modders (just like me) trying their modification load/try/exit frequently, this load time is too long.

agreed, when testing changes, loading time does add up. I never was happy with the regular BtS loading time when doing my tests either

Maybe there's better way to try (no need to start game from desktop/exit each time), and I don't know it so I'm again using a stupid way?

About the only way to cut down on loading time is to just test / load your changes, i.e. do not add them to a large mod (like mine) right away, but load them on their own (in case of WoC this means with just the core and no modules).

Once they work the way you want them to, add them to the actual mod.

You can also unload a mod and then load it again (after you did some changes) instead of starting civ anew. I believe this is a little faster.

 

[TAfirehawk]

The stand alone WoC Core and Modules will be released when the ENTIRE WoC Standard is ready....there is more to this than you see on the surface.

But this is the Diversica for WoC thread and there are other threads for a discussion on why the WoC Team is not doing bla bla bla.

 

[mamba]

Another question is when I try the private map CarterEarth(18BtS).CivBeyondSwordWBSave, it throws a error.

Any hint?

Finally we managed to locate the problem, all maps need to have 36 civs in order to work with WoC (as that is the number of available civs in WoC), irrespective of whether the map actually makes use of them.

Here are the fixed maps.

 

[mamba]

Ok, over 300 downloads and no comments. Is everyone busy playing the mod ?

 

[mamba]

Bugfix for israeli pikeman and english early jet fighter.

Here is the bugfix for the regular version and here the one for the WoC version.

 

[ahartnett]

I love your mod but I'm having some problems using it for WoC. I haven't been able to get it to use most of WoC's features. I changed the main interface to "7" in the python.config but all that did was move the buttons to the left, it didn't change the color to WoC's color and font. Diversica also isn't using any of WoC's modules, it's just using the basic WoC 1.0. For example, it isn't using the new units, civs, technologies, the additional button for unit history, etc. Diversica is in my ...BTS/Mods/Div_WoC directory, should it be in the WoC directory to work properly?

 

[mamba]

I love your mod but I'm having some problems using it for WoC. I haven't been able to get it to use most of WoC's features. I changed the main interface to "7" in the python.config but all that did was move the buttons to the left, it didn't change the color to WoC's color and font.

Where is that config you are talking of ? Does it need a WoC module for the other font ?

Diversica also isn't using any of WoC's modules, it's just using the basic WoC 1.0. For example, it isn't using the new units, civs, technologies, the additional button for unit history, etc. Diversica is in my ...BTS/Mods/Div_WoC directory, should it be in the WoC directory to work properly?

It isn't using them for two reasons, first and foremost, I assume the module was installed into Mods/WoC, not Mods/Div_WoC. Diversica (as all other mods) only looks in its own directory.

The other reason is that even if you install the WoC module in Div_WoC, you will still need to edit the MLF xml in order for it to be loaded. If you need help with that, let me know which module you are trying to install and I'll walk you through the process.

 

[ahartnett]

Ah, I see you've answered my question earlier. I need to merge WoC modules into Diversica or vice versa. You said moving WoC's mods to Div would be easier but I'm wondering since WoC is going through a lot of changes right now, which way would be easier in the long run? I mean would I have to keep making changes to Div every time there is an update to one of WoC's modules? How hard is it to merge Div to WoC? Sorry for all the questions but I love the graphics in your mod and want to be able to use it with other mods (so I thought WoC would be the best way to do this).

 

[mamba]

Ah, I see you've answered my question earlier. I need to merge WoC modules into Diversica or vice versa. You said moving WoC's mods to Div would be easier but I'm wondering since WoC is going through a lot of changes right now, which way would be easier in the long run? I mean would I have to keep making changes to Div every time there is an update to one of WoC's modules? How hard is it to merge Div to WoC?

Neither one should really be that complicated, but merging Div to WoC will be more work upfront (but no work afterwards) while merging WoC modules to Div will be a little work each and every time.

First and foremost, you should copy the Div_WoC/Assets/*.FPK files to WoC/Assets. You will need them as they contain all the Diversica art.

Also copy the Div_WoC/Assets/Sounds directory (incl. subdirs) to WoC/Assets.

Next, you should copy the Div_WoC/Assets/XML directory (incl. subdirs) over to WoC/Assets/XML. As Diversica/xml is a superset of WoC/xml, there should not be any issues because of this.

Finally, you will need to merge the Div_WoC/Assets/Modules dir with WoC/Assets/Modules and especially the MLF files (for the rest it is just a matter of copying the files, but the MLFs will need to be edited).

There also might be some overlap between what is contained in Diversica and what some WoC modules offer, e.g. I have a Poland (or Hungary or ...) civ and a similar civ will most likely be part of one module (either already or eventually). In these cases, delete the WoC version and go with the Diversica one. Chances are the main difference is the unit specific art and maybe some leaders.

Merging the MLFs will be the most complicated part. Your best bet is using the Diversica MLFs and to add the additional WoC definitions at the end of each Diversica MLF (in the order they appear in in the WoC MLF). If there is no corresponding WoC MLF, simply keep the Diversica one, if there is no corresponding Diversica MLF, simply keep the WoC one.

That should be it (never tried it, but I would be surprised if it did not work).

EDIT: do not include EDU in the merged version, chances are it creates some difficulties, at best it is completely superfluous.

Eventually the WoC modules will need to ship with changed MLF (as they go beyond what is included in the core MLFs), in those cases, you would again need to merge their additional definitions with your current MLFs. As they most likely will overwrite the existing ones upon installing them, you should always keep a backup of your current MLF files.

 

[ahartnett]

Where is that config you are talking of ? Does it need a WoC module for the other font ?

It's the MainInterface_Civ4pythonModulesInfos.xml under Pythonconfig. There is a text file next to it with numbers 0 -16 and how they will change the interface. I only tried a few but only found 1 and 7 to work. If you change Div to 7, some buttons will move to the left but the color and fonts won't change since, like you said, they're based on a mod (I ran the game between installing mods to see if it was working and the font wasn't changed until one of the mods installed). I don't care about the color change, I'd rather use blue marble's civscale to change that, but I do like the bright white font.

 

[ahartnett]

Neither one should really be that complicated, but merging Div to WoC will be more work upfront (but no work afterwards) while merging WoC modules to Div will be a little work each and every time.


EDIT: do not include EDU in the merged version, chances are it creates some difficulties, at best it is completely superfluous.

Eventually the WoC modules will need to ship with changed MLF (as they go beyond what is included in the core MLFs), in those cases, you would again need to merge their additional definitions with your current MLFs. As they most likely will overwrite the existing ones upon installing them, you should always keep a backup of your current MLF files.

Thanks for all the help but I couldn't get it to work - it probably would for someone who knows what they're doing. I got it to run once but Austria and Pirates were missing from the choice of countries. I don't know what i did but couldn't get it to run again. So, hours later, and after reading your edit, it sounds like it might be easier to go the other way and add the mods to Div. Would I have to keep changing MLFs if I add the mods to Div every time WoC makes a change? If so, I think I'll just play the game as it is and wait for the front end to come out!

 

[mamba]

Would I have to keep changing MLFs if I add the mods to Div every time WoC makes a change? If so, I think I'll just play the game as it is and wait for the front end to come out!

Every time you copy a directory from WoC/Assets/Modules (or one of its subdirs) to Div_WoC/Assets/Modules, you would need to add that directory to the MLF file of the directory you copy it to (you should add it at the end of the MLF).

If there is no MLF in the directory you copy to, you do not need to edit anything.

 

[ahartnett]

Every time you copy a directory from WoC/Assets/Modules (or one of its subdirs) to Div_WoC/Assets/Modules, you would need to add that directory to the MLF file of the directory you copy it to (you should add it at the end of the MLF).

If there is no MLF in the directory you copy to, you do not need to edit anything.

Thanks, I did it that way and it's MUCH easier. I should have listened to you in the first place. I did find the fonts, if you're interested. The actual fonts are in ..modules/interface/UIdarkblue/resource. The file that changes them to Times Roman is ...UIdarkblue/resource/Civ4/Themes/Civ4theme_Common.thm. The line that changes them is line 371(you can find it by searching with "SF_CtrlTheme_Civ4_Control_Font")- I got that from Fabrysse; I don't have a clue what I'm doing. I tried changing the colors by changing the background color (i do that all the time with no problem) but it turns it black and white. I may end up taking the dark blue directory out so I can get other colors and lose the fonts that I wanted to begin with.

 

[mamba]

OK, real life is taking its toll on me. For the time being I will not continue with this mod or visit the forum on a regular basis. I will return, I just am not sure when exactly (definitely sometime later this year, my guess is sometime in October).

I hope there aren't too many problem with the current version and I hope there are plenty of new units by the time I return

 

[Lord Tirian]

For some reason, the download for the WoC version doesn't work.

Cheers, LT.

 

[mamba]

For some reason, the download for the WoC version doesn't work.

Filefrot has a habit of dropping uploads after a while. Usually this is not an issue as I have a new version uploaded before they do so.

In any case, I have reuploaded it again, please try again.

 

[Lord Tirian]

In any case, I have reuploaded it again, please try again.

Worked. Thanks a lot!

 

[mamba]

Minor bugfix, get it here.