DMOC's DEITY Game #1 - Gandhi

Imho try to get a settler asap and settle on the jungle ivory (getting 2x ivory/horses/sugar). No food resource but you can make farms. Barbs shouldn't be that much of a problem there, so you can just move a settler there with a warrior defending imho.

Ramses is rather weak military, you should be able to do a successful war with HA or phants.

Ihmo archery->bw->wheel->writing->HBR->Maths->Constr (oh yea and aggri p_p). Get 3-4 cities (preferable food/hammers), run library scientists till HA's or phants and wipe Ramses. From there you should have enough for space. :)
 
Cyrus is immensely difficult to bribe into war. While he's somewhat agressive, I believe he will not declare on anyone Pleased or above, and will not take war bribes except from Friendly civs - and only against civilizations which he already dislikes. If you get him to share a religion Persia will not be a problem.

- and since Ramesses is nigh-guaranteed to found at least one religion, that won't be a problem since he'll be spamming around missionaries.

That being said, I think a war on Ramesses (provided you can pull together a reasonable Classical army and take the horses/ellies) is not out of the question. He's bound to have some juicy wonders and little troops to defend them with.
 
I looked at the information I posted from the BTS reference tables, and it says that, for Cyrus:

Declare war: Pleased
Declare war on X: Annoyed

So he must be AT LEAST Friendly to be bribed and must be Annoyed or Furious with the other AI/human. At least, that's what I think it means. And it agrees with Paulus.

And the reference tables says Cyrus won't decide to declare on Pleased.
 
Ihmo archery->bw->wheel->writing->HBR->Maths->Constr (oh yea and aggri p_p). Get 3-4 cities (preferable food/hammers), run library scientists till HA's or phants and wipe Ramses. From there you should have enough for space. :)

Any thoughts on getting Aesthetics for trade? I'm going to need irons since Ramesses II will counter my elephants with spears.

And agriculture can go after writing.
 
At the end of the first round I listed Cyrus' (and Ramesses II's) stats and information taken from the Beyond the Sword reference tables here in the BTS forums.

It says "Declare War: Pleased" and "Declare war on X: Annoyed" for Cyrus. So he will REFUSE to be bribed to war unless he is FRIENDLY. And he will also not declare war on anyone he is CAUTIOUS, PLEASED OR FRIENDLY with. So I just have to maintain my "Cautious" status with him.
 
Any thoughts on getting Aesthetics for trade? I'm going to need irons since Ramesses II will counter my elephants with spears.

And agriculture can go after writing.

I don't think getting Aest is a good idea. What would you trade it for? The AI doesn't like to trade hbr/constr from my experience. Also counting on trades with just 2 AI's met is a shot in the dark imho. You'd have to hope one of them researches it early enough. If not it will just delay phants.
I rarely tech aest (or build GL/NE).

Hbr is a pretty good tech for trading as well.

As for spears .. I think the chances are low that Ramses will attack your sod. Trade maths for iw if possible or .. maybe you find copper somewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't phants have a decent success against spears?

Edit: Actually regarding my 1st post. 3-4 cities is my default for HA rush. Sooooo.. 4-6 for phants? Or is that too optimistic? :lol: (don't forget to build stables)

I would play a shadow if I had more time because this looks like a fun game. Good luck to you. ;)
 
I often tech Aesthetics (well, more like 90% of the time on immortal) so this would be a new experience for me.

Of course, declaring war on a deity AI early would also be new....

I guess I'll post a second round (maybe Wednesday?) where I scout out Egypt's cities to see their defenses and if they're on hills or not. This will help me decide whether it's best to go Aesthetics or Construction. Keep in mind that Gandhi is philosophical and the Great Library is even better in his situation. The numerous forests in the capital will help with production. This, of course, will all be discarded after exploring Ram's cities and seeing how they are located and deciding if an early war is best.
 
Round 2: 3200 BC to 3000 BC (9 Turns) - Egypt's Rapid Expansion


I finished my first fast worker on turn 35 and opted for a quick warrior, which would take 5 turns.



My fast worker went over to pasture the easternmost cows. My reasoning was that the fast worker could instantly start pasturing the cows while the pigs and other cows would have a delay of 1 turn due to movement. Also, a settler uses both food and hammers in production, and a 3:food:3:hammers: cow had the same value for settler production as a 5:food:1:hammers: pig.

However, in hindsight, it was a mistake to do this...Ramesses II founded a city where I wanted to have my second city.



I don't know if this is Ramesses II's third or fourth city...hopefully third. :crazyeye:

So I should have pastured the pigs because my plan NOW is to grow the capital quickly to size 3-4 and start settlers. The pig should have been improved before the cows....



I ended this round, since I wanted to have your input. My current force of 3 warriors (only 1 of which is actually doing the exploring) has found this land.



I have marked a great city to the east with floodplains and stone (excellent for Oxford University purposes). I will want to settle that city ASAP. As an alternative, I could settle that city on the desert tile next to the stone. Take note of how kind the map generator has been in this game in granting me no fish. :goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:

My gold city could also be settled one land tile to the east. This would have the advantage of blocking off Ramesses II even further because of a weird mountain range that goes south. It also gets an oasis.

I have a few questions:

  1. What population size should I grow my capital so it starts to produce a settler for my second city?
  2. Do I go for the gold city close by or the floodplains city far away as my second city?
  3. Should I produce Stonehenge (for cash purposes) for 4 more turns until Archery comes in or do I make a fourth warrior which, conveniently, takes 4 turns to produce?
  4. Should I make a second worker before my first settler?
  5. What tech should be after Archery?

My answers:

  1. Size 3 for the first city, then possibly grow a little more to produce a few more settlers in a row.
  2. The gold city, because it helps prevent Ramesses II from expanding further in my way, has a happiness resource, and will have less maintenance costs than the floodplains city.
  3. I would produce Stonehenge for 4 more turns to get cash needed to fund expansion. Extra warriors would likely increase unit costs and die anyway.
  4. No, because there isn't that much land that needs to be improved apart from the pasture resources in my capital.
  5. Bronze Working, to help with chopping settlers, workers, and possibly archers.

The information on AI's is repeated here, with a new section for Wang Kon, the fourth civ on this continent (including us). Also, all three AI's are currently cautious towards each other except that Cyrus is Pleased with Ramesses II (but Ram doesn't like him back).

Wang has founded Buddhism.





The save:
 

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Round 3: 3000 BC to 1800 BC (49 Turns)


Not a single response between this round and the previous one? :( Maybe I need to start posting more lengthy updates then.

Anyway, my plan THIS round was to do some serious expansion and hopefully get the land that is east of me in my posession.

My fast worker went off to pasture the pigs while my capital built a fourth warrior (which I opted over Stonehenge because I reasoned that having an extra fogbust would prove invaluable). In fact, barbarians were hardly a problem in this round. Despite the fact that a close AI to me built the Great Wall, I have only killed one barbarian unit, a warrior, and lost no unit yet! Of course, part of this may have been that I was constantly following the other AI archers that were around and the barbarians attacked them.



I also began to admire the 3-move fast worker this round. The fast worker went from the eastern cow all the way to the pigs and started working on a pasture in only 2 turns. For comparison, a normal worker would have taken 4 turns.

A few turns in the round, I researched Archery. The next tech for me to choose was a difficult one but I ended up choosing The Wheel, even though I had planned on selecting Bronze Working from my plan last round. I did some quick math and found that the fast worker would be idle for about ten turns after finishing up all the Animal Husbandry resources. I didn't want that, so I figured that it would be best for my fast worker to build some roads. This way, the settler would also be able to reach the second city site faster.



With the pigs improved, growth in the capital was accelerated.



I got some news in terms of how I ranked with others among power....



I'm rounding out the list at #7, which is really no surprise at this stage. Ramesses II is, apparently, #6 in power while Cyrus is among the top in this game. Again, no surprises here.

I also deviated from my previous plan last round in that I decided to grow Delhi to size 4 before starting on the first settler, so another archer could be produced.



While I was doing that, the AI's were obviously doing their own thing, like founding more religions.



I would have prefered that Judaism had been founded in Ramesses' western city on the coast since now my second city will experience greater cultural pressure. On the upside, Egypt and Korea now have conflicting religions.

I eventually finished researching The Wheel and then opted for Bronze Working afterwards. Also, by this time, I had gained visibility into everyone's power rating due to my adjustment of the espionage points assigned to different civilizations.



As the capital reached size 4, I began on a settler while my fast worker built a road towards the new city site (previously, he had built a road on the pigs and a forest tile next to it so the pigs could get connected to my capital). I would have liked a second fast worker, but I needed to get a second city QUICKLY. My warrior also managed to scout out Cyrus's borders, and they're too close for my taste.



I really hope I can beat him to some of the city sites up north...particularly near the gold. On a side note, I suddenly gained the ability to trade resources with Cyrus on turn 62. I have no idea why, though, as there aren't any rivers I can see from my cities that would extend into his territory. Another surprise was that Cyrus was already asking for Open Borders on turn 65....

I had other things to do, though. I founded my second city, settling it 1E as I originally planned, and began a monument while working the forested plains tile.



There were several reasons for me founding Bombay in this location:

1) The city 1W would be even more culturally threatened.
2) The city 1W cannot immediately work the gold.
3) The current city will be able to block the east nicely, working together with several peaks (see those three peaks in a nice, vertical line?).

I had my lone fast worker go and instantly mine the gold. I desperately needed an additional commerce resource because I wasn't working any riverside tiles yet. In fact, I was still generating the default palace+capital city center 9 :science: before I founded this city!

Oh, by the way, I finally finished Bronze Working after going through several turns of 0% research to gain cash. Fog busters and fast workers aren't cheap!



I selected Agriculture as my next technology....



And is there copper near me? Yes!



A city located 1W of the unforested plains hill is looking like a great early production center.

In other news, Judaism had spread to Bombay. I converted immediately to gain diplomatic points with Ramesses II.



Judaism actually spread to Delhi the very next turn so both of my cities had my state religion! Ramesses II was also "pleased" with me and Wang Kon, who had a different religion, was still "cautious," but considering that I can't find his borders, I'll assume he's far away and thus, I can worry about him less. Unfortunately, Cyrus decided to ruin the fun and found Confucianism on turn 80 (2000 BC). So now there's three religions here on the continent. I may have to convert out of Judaism to avoid getting negative modifers with any AI. (although none of the 3 AI's at this point is annoyed with any other AI) Switching back to no state religion won't be a problem for me, since Gandhi is Spiritual. Speaking of which, I need to figure out when I should switch to slavery. Random events are off in this game, so I don't need to worry about slave revolts, but the "medium" upkeep of the Slavery civic keeps me from adopting it.

I decided to end the round at 1800 BC when I need to make a critical decision. I have made a third settler who is now ready to found a blocking city. Unforunately, Cyrus already founded Tarsus 2 turns earlier. The question is -- do I settle my planned city?



If I settle there, that will make the city very likely to culturally flip to Cyrus if I don't immediately pump up some culture in it. That means a monument ASAP, which will probably be whipped while the city works that corn.

Anyway, here's some other information:

Delhi, training my third fast worker, which will probably be followed by another settler:



Bombay, working the gold because that tile alone provides almost 50% of my civilization's total research:



The map:



Proposed city sites, numbered in the order I plan to found them:



So do you agree with this? Also, I'm going to need some kind of an economy here. :lol: Should I cottage some cities? Farm them and run science specialists instead? If I cottage, I'm going to have to research Pottery right after Agriculture. If not, I could probably skip Pottery and research it after Writing.

Some other points of interest:

-Ramesses II built Stonehenge (2825 BC)
-Cyrus built The Great Wall (2275 BC)
-Wang Kon built The Oracle (2200 BC)
-My three continent mates have 5-6 cities each so far
-I have open borders with all 3 AI's but no foreign trade routes yet
-No one has Alphabet

Here's the save if you want to look at it. But I would really appreciate just a few comments about my game.
 

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I wouldn't put it right in cyrus' face, as tempting as the gold might be. I'd keep the gold(probably settling 1ne or 1e, and fill with a 4th. He might be hard to bribe in a war, but it ain't so hard to make him declare when he's cautious.

You can forget about #4 even by now :p The spice will be in cyrus border and you'll just piss him off by trying to flip(supposing, by absurd, that he won't settle some city closer to it anyway, before you do). Cap. should provide decent production.

I'd make #3 #2. You get 1 happy and can be cottages asap. Plus, stone, spiritual, ramses who'll probably get the ap from the gp sh will produce... SM might be interesting.

I'd go 1ne from #1 with next settler, settle #3, settle 1n from the current position of your settler, or where your settler is, stop abit(you'll have to anyway, since you'll be broke. Though I'm not sure if that gold is actually worth the hassle, but...

Eastern river says cottages, western part says specialists, so probably it'll be a mixture of both. Drop the barracks, build a worker if you don't grow bombay.

p.s. and it's noone's fault you're a slowpoke with updates :p
 
No real comment as this is above my level, but I agree with you on the fast worker. I really miss it when I finish a game as India and play with somebody else. IMO the best UU in the game.
 
Playing a game as asoka atm, gotta love that fast worker. In the modern ages i just send them into a telemarketing centre:lol: (racism isnt cool) Bad luck with that city spot, i would reccomend going into your shell a bit and then killing your way out, always seems the best option for me;). Also keep an eye on your bpt it looks a bit low;). Anyway from the looks of things IMO you're screwed already, diety's scary enough without everything going your way. All i can say is, good luck! I believe in you?
 
It is also litle bit more over my level, but i really like detailnes of your posting so keep coming, i like to learn from these stories.:goodjob:
 
I wouldn't put it right in cyrus' face, as tempting as the gold might be. I'd keep the gold(probably settling 1ne or 1e, and fill with a 4th. He might be hard to bribe in a war, but it ain't so hard to make him declare when he's cautious.

You can forget about #4 even by now :p The spice will be in cyrus border and you'll just piss him off by trying to flip(supposing, by absurd, that he won't settle some city closer to it anyway, before you do). Cap. should provide decent production.

I'd make #3 #2. You get 1 happy and can be cottages asap. Plus, stone, spiritual, ramses who'll probably get the ap from the gp sh will produce... SM might be interesting.

I'd go 1ne from #1 with next settler, settle #3, settle 1n from the current position of your settler, or where your settler is, stop abit(you'll have to anyway, since you'll be broke. Though I'm not sure if that gold is actually worth the hassle, but...

Eastern river says cottages, western part says specialists, so probably it'll be a mixture of both. Drop the barracks, build a worker if you don't grow bombay.

p.s. and it's noone's fault you're a slowpoke with updates :p


Good points. I'll probably stop the barracks build in Bombay and start a fast worker. The reason I didn't make another f.w. was that I wanted to avoid the unit upkeep cost at that time.

I'm not sure where you are suggesting I found my third city when you say 1ne and e since my settler is 2w from my desired city location. If you mean 1ne and e from the tile that I plan to found my next city, those city sites will still be bordering Cyrus but they also lose a corn in the first ring which I could use to whip cultural buildings.

@bobbyboy29: Any ideas on raising my BPT?

Oh yes and it seems I'll have to go Pottery -> Writing to get at least some cash going in. But when writing comes my capital will immediately run 2 science specialists for a total of 6:science: and Great People Points.
 
Not a single response between this round and the previous one? Maybe I need to start posting more lengthy updates then.

Keep it coming, us weenies are hanging on your every word....

If I settle there, that will make the city very likely to culturally flip to Cyrus if I don't immediately pump up some culture in it. That means a monument ASAP, which will probably be whipped while the city works that corn.

I'd settle your next city where you'd planned to. Yes, you'll need culture say a monument and library early, but isn't that going to be a commerce city anyway ? main reason to settle elsewhere would be fear of pacal ? - can't comment on this but I'd usually get my butt kicked rather than actually have the city flip...(on monarch where I play). or is pacal creative ?
 
DMOC ... i think the spot 1e or 1ne he is talking about is 1e or 1ne of cityspot 1 AND place a city where your settler are atm (or 1n)
 
1ne will lose the corn obviously(yes, I meant from your current planned position), but it's also flippable from the 2nd pop of his city on. That itself wouldn't make me give up a corn either, but it'll also induce - border tension early, before you manage to sweeten him up. This might be a marathon habbit, but diff. religion and border tension would guarantee me a declaration before lib.

Mind you, even if cyrus can be a competent warmonger contrary to the other 2, all 3 have same warmonger respect, so normally they start pleased with each other. Ok, they're each the founder of their own religion, but still... won't take much to become worse enemy of one of them since they're naturally pleased with each other and probably already obed with each other and from here relations between them will only go up. Also, the other continent is all budhist, which doesn't help either.

And again, I'm not 100% sure the river is worth the short term drain(at least the southern part, the northern floodplains sure are). Especially with the lack of food.
 
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