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DMOC's DEITY Game #3 - Willem van Oranje

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by DMOC, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. shpeka

    shpeka Warlord

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    Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh boy. :lol:

    What a nice read. Well done, DMOC. Where did you produce all the currassier? Was it the NE city building them all the time or did you whip all your cities for a few turns?
     
  2. IPEX-731BA5DD06

    IPEX-731BA5DD06 Deity

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    On A.I stupidity, specifically Boadica and her going in and out of WHEOOHRN mode.

    She was probably trying to find a way to Sitting Bull, but couldn't. Though, this has never stopped any A.I. sitting in such mode with out Machinery, and waiting till it get Astronomy before it decides to follow through on attacking me. Sheeze...

    Very interesting game, I'm more interested in the Tech trading mechanics, as I don't usually like doing much tech trading.
     
  3. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    The heroic epic city did the majority of the work. Also, my non-super science cities (basically all the other cities besides the capital and Floodplain City) were building them. I used the whip as well.

    That's odd, since Sitting Bull directly borders her via land (although I don't know if its 8 tiles or more), and there's no mountain in the way to cause the "same landmass" glitch. Note that if Saladin or Hannibal decided to declare war on each other, they'd be in continuous WHEOOHRN mode since they're technically on the same landmass but can't get to each other via land since 2 mountains are separating them, with no room for land units to go through.
     
  4. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Round 7: 970 AD to 1100 AD [14 Turns] - The Fall of Japan, Part I


    WAR!

    War starts: turn 243, 980 AD. I'm hoping cavalry will wrap this one up quickly. And as usual, I can capture a city on the first turn of the war. I always like to do that.

    Spoiler :


    With over 92% odds on the first defender, I take the city laughably.

    Spoiler :


    The dog-pile of Tokugawa has a downside. It means that other civilizations may take him as a vassal soon. Therefore, I opted to remove that threat. This is why being the technology leader is so helpful. Oh, I'm not worried about giving Boudica Rifling, since the Rifling technology is cheaper than having to attack both Boudica and Tokugawa later.

    Spoiler :


    With the world map from Boudica, I now have a nice stopping point at 1000 AD [turn 245]. Here's the fully updated map. Notice that Sitting Bull's land is crap, as usual. I could never understand why he always gets hit with the bad land.

    Spoiler :


    The demographics are not bad for deity at this time. Of course, by the end of the war, I'll aim to be first in the important categories (GNP, MFG, Food) and respectable in military.

    Spoiler :


    Top 5 Cities & Wonders. It's interesting to note that no civilization has more than one city listed here.

    Spoiler :


    I strike a technology trade with Bismarck. The key technology here was Corporation, which is basically like a second Currency technology since it gives a free trade route to every city. Perfect! :goodjob:

    This allows me to research Steel next, although in retrospect I probably could have delayed that technology as the war was done with horses only.

    Spoiler :


    My horses arrived at Kyoto on turn 248. As incredible as it may seem, I take the city with no losses. Yes, not a single unit died. Of course, I have to thank my allies for destroying perhaps 3-5 Tokugawa units a turn.

    Spoiler :


    My Great General (the first of the game for me) caught up to the horses and is now attaching himself to one. I plan on getting a Medic III unit as I want to be able to heal rapidly.

    Spoiler :


    Meanwhile, at Home, I pop a source of silver. Incredible! This game was actually pretty odd in terms of resources popping from mines, as I got two silver, one copper, one iron, and at least a few other metals.

    Spoiler :


    While my forces were healing at Kyoto (remember, units that move in a turn can't heal that turn) I sent some healthy cavalries with Bismarck's small stack to Osaka. I intentionally asked Bismarck to "attack Osaka" so that I could "scout" the city without any Tokugawa interference. I'll have to check the game again to see who comes in turn order first - Bismarck or Tokugawa.

    Spoiler :


    A few turns later, I move a moderate stack of cavalry on the hill to see what's in Tokyo. Not much, it seems. It looks like Tokugawa's running out of fight soon. Oh well - blame the AP!

    Spoiler :


    I got the "every-50" turn report. This is why I decided to bribe Boudica out of the war. She's the most powerful civ on the planet, so Tokugawa would likely cave into her first. (The vassal mechanics are a bit more complicated that that, though, but the general rule is that civs vassal to the people who cause the most damage to them.)

    Spoiler :


    Well, here's Tokyo. I captured this city easily, again. I get a free courthouse, too. That's one of the nice things about war - you can capture espionage buildings that really help you later on when the AI's are putting 100+ on you ever turn.

    Spoiler :


    I had a brief chuckle when I realized that this was probably the first offensive attack Tokugawa ever tried to do to me.

    Spoiler :


    Here's the domestic advisor, so you can see that virtually all cities are on cavalry right now. My population is low now because of the whip. It's tough that cavalries can't be drafted, since I'd be able to keep getting one from my Globe Theatre city ever turn then.

    Spoiler :


    I capture Tokugawa's second capital, Osaka. The poor guy has to deal with the fact that I've gotten his first capital and am using it as a route to his second! And again, you can see that I cleverly asked Bismarck to attack the city before me, thus wounding the units. If Bismarck had a larger stack by the city, I would have no choice but to bribe him to peace or take the city before he could.

    Spoiler :


    With Japanese culture rapidly diminishing, I take advantage of the time to pounce on some undefended longbows. I used my Great General to attack as I want him to get another experience point for his next promotion. (I also frequently have Great Generals attack the last unit defending a city for easy experience points.)

    Spoiler :


    Yet another city to fall - Kagoshima.

    Spoiler :


    Several things happened this turn. You can see that Hannibal made peace with Tokugawa. I'm pleased with that, although it means that Hannibal will likely resume teching at a high speed. I don't think Hannibal ever caused Tokugawa damage to his military so there was little risk of Tokugawa capitulating to Hannibal.

    And you can see that Tokugawa finally killed one of my units by one of his own attacks for the first time this game. A work boat.

    Spoiler :


    After Steel, I researched Scientific Method. It was high time that I got the Biology technology, and Scientific Method is its prerequisite.

    Spoiler :


    Pericles takes advantage of being first to Divine Right by building Versailles quite close to his capital, which lessens its usefulness.

    Spoiler :


    After the capture of Satsuma, I used the opportunity to nab a few more workers. I was able to capture Satsuma by moving a lot of cavalry 2 spaces away on turn 254, then attacking on turn 255. The quickness of Cavalry is just overwhelming. Recall that the war started on turn 243.

    Spoiler :


    It seemed like I was on a roll. But then, the game threw a curveball at me....

    TO BE CONTINUED ... in ROUND EIGHT!

    (note, I will get some saves up soon, but I'm trying to search through my save directory for a good one.)
     
  5. gorf37

    gorf37 Warlord

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    Wait! You have to tell us! What was the curveball?!? (awesome game so far, by the way)
     
  6. nishant1911

    nishant1911 *hugs*

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    i could never prepare my stack of cavalry soon enough.
    you should do another round showing how you got those 21 cavalries that fast.
    BTW nice round.
     
  7. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    Kossin did in one of his rounds. Use the whip in every city.
     
  8. Quaren

    Quaren Chieftain

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    He used used the gold from 2 GMs to upgrade his curiassers.
     
  9. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    I did use the whip heavily to get cuirassiers, then I used the gold to upgrade to cavalry. The nice thing was that cuirassiers are easier to whip, so I effectively whipped cavalries at cuirassier cost. But it did cost me 2 great merchants.
     
  10. Revenant

    Revenant Warlord

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    Hey DMOC, bit off-topic but I guess at this stage you won't finish the Julius Caesar game? Just read through the whole game tonight and was looking forward to seeing the end. Nice game btw. :goodjob:
     
  11. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Ok, for someone playing Deity, you have a awfully innacurate knowlegde on how AI vassaling works, DMOC :p

    So a crash course:

    There are two kinds of AI vassaling, capitulating after being beaten to pulp and a AI in peace time throwing itself to the feet of someone more powerful ( Gandhi trademark move :D ).

    AI capitulation will only occur if one of their enemies gathers 40 net war sucess points ( possible master war sucess - possible vassal war sucess ). If there are more than one civ that fulfill that and there is no other impediment ( master power too low, higher vassal power than alive civs power average or my favourite pet peeve regarding this, the fact the master is warring someone more powerful than the possible vassal ), all of the civs with atleast 40 net war sucess on the vassal can become masters, but there is a bias that favours the civs that beaten them more. BTW war sucess counts reset to zero in the moment a war ends, so they don't port themselfes to other wars. Vassaling like this forces a peace treaty that is warring on the vassal if they are in peace with the master ( and obviously forces the vassal to DOW everyone that is warring with the master )

    Peaceful vassalization, OTOH is a trade between two free civs where one of them sells it's freedom in exchange for a big bro. As any trade, it depends of the disposition of the master->vassal and of the vassal->master and if any of them will refuse to make a normal trade with the other due to disposition, it will probably not be eligible for this trade as well. As it is a trade during peace, no war considerations are involved . If this kind of vassalization happens, both master and vassal share the wars the other party had.

    In short, from the moment you bribed Boudica out of the war, Toku can't capitulate to Boudica ( no more war ). The only way he could vassalize to Boudica was via selling itself to her ( :lol: ), but ,due to the fact that Toku is not exactly Miss congeniality and that were warring some turns ago, it is highly unlikely they would acept a peaceful vassaling trade. You were fearing a very unlikely scenario :p
     
  12. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Hello, r rolo. :)

    Just curious, but when you say "I was fearing an unlikely scenario" that was Toku vassalizing to Boudica, that's specifically why I bribed Boudica out of the war. I knew that Tokugawa would not friendly-vassal, I was worried that he would capitulate (as in war). Not sure what you're saying here. :confused:

    By the way I learned what you said in your post a while ago. ;)

    Revenant - sorry that game has become too large for me to play. The amount of units I have to move is overwhelming.
     
  13. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Sorry, your wording regarding both t 243 ( when you bribed Boudi out ) and t251 ( the 50 power count pop up ) made me believe that you were still fearing Toku cap after Boudi was bribed out :D My mistake then ... not that the info might not be useful for some lurker ;)
     
  14. Caeserportugal

    Caeserportugal Prince

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    DSoing nicely DMOC wow the tech rate is pretty fast Rifling before 1000 AD:eek: By this rate you will reach Modern tanks by 1600.
     
  15. framserv

    framserv Chieftain

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    Hey DMOC, just checking to see how you are doing - must be time for round 2 to be posted :).

    Seriously though, awesome game. Top quality play and rapid updates, what more can we ask for.

    I guess the rapid teching is inevitable at Deity because the AI's tech rapidly and trade it around, am I right in thinking that 1000AD rifles are pretty much impossible at Monarch or Emperor?
     
  16. nishant1911

    nishant1911 *hugs*

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    i guess not.;)
    you can reach liberalism around 300 AD by bulbing philosophy and education, research it till only 1 turn left, trade feudalism and machinery from AI, research till gunpowder and replaceable parts,complete liberalism-rifling.
    one can easily complete it around 800-900 AD.
     
  17. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    All right, good to know. Hopefully someone did learn.

    Actually, I think that's exactly right. :)

    Expect round 8 to be up by tonight.

    Ironically enough, it is actually easier to research faster on deity than on monarch due to tech trades. However, on Monarch and Emperor I do think getting Rifling by 1000 AD is doable, because what you lack in trades you can make up by likely having more land and fewer penalties.

    Yes, that's an option. However, I prefer the Liberalism - Biology slingshot myself. :goodjob: I have only pulled that off in a game once, and it was immortal, not diety, IIRC.
     
  18. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Round 8: 1100 AD To 1360 AD [38 Turns] - The Fall of Japan, Part II

    (Continued from last round)

    I bribed Bismarck to peace with Tokugawa. It's really helpful to be the tech leader.

    Spoiler :


    Afterwards, I had the choice of Biology vs Steam Power. I chose steam power, in order to unlock Willem's powerful unique building. I don't think it's a top 5 unique building (such as the ikhanda, rathaus, etc.) but it's still a great one.

    The other choices weren't appealing.

    • Democracy? No thanks, I don't need the civics right now.
    • Physics? Sure it unlocks a lot of great techs, but I am concerned about getting the production of my civilization up NOW, which Steam Power helps with.
    • Communism? I don't anticipate needing extra spy points.
    • Military Science? No need for grenadiers.
    • Divine Right? Do I need to explain ....

    Spoiler :


    More AI silliness. Pericles finally decided to help out his ailing master (where were you anyway? Lousy vassal ....) and he puts a small stack right next to my cavalries. Excellent! Experience fooder.

    Spoiler :


    My defenses in the northern cities (Kyoto, Osaka, Tokyo) were pretty weak, especially considering that their defenders were old cavalry usually healing. In fact, while transporting units from one city to another I left Kyoto undefended.

    Spoiler :


    Another city to fall. I don't remember whether Sitting Bull's stack (which was not large enough to take the city anyway) attacked or just bomarded defenses. I think this was the third or fourth capital I took from Tokugawa.

    Spoiler :


    With my shrewd capturing of cities, I actually box in Nagoya, preventing Tokugawa from adequately boosting the defenses. :goodjob:

    Of course, the defenses weren't that great to begin with!

    Spoiler :


    Well well, looks like the AP once again came to Sitting Bull's rescue. I could never understand how he remained to be vassal-free after all of this time.

    Spoiler :


    When Kagoshima came out of revolt, I soon had the city build an east-indiaman. Tokugawa had one island city by this point, and I want no part in dealing with "we yearn to join our homeland" unhappiness.

    Spoiler :


    Notice in the screenshot below that I have neglected to connect my cities with Bismarck's territory. I actually did this to try and slow down Bismarck, so if he were to come south with an attacking stack for Tokugawa, Boudica, etc., they would be delayed a turn (due to lack of roads) which meant fewer chances of a one-sided war.

    Spoiler :


    All right, I know this is a risk but I wanted to distract Peter and Boudica. Boudica was the more powerful civiliation at that time, but with the techs I gave Peter, I think he was the more advanced.

    Spoiler :


    I finally got a few cannons to join the army, and made them move ahead of the stack, so that the horses could catch up to them.

    Spoiler :


    Well well well ... Pericles agrees to be a vassal of Bismarck. I guess the war was just too much for him.

    Spoiler :


    At Home, I finish a dike! Excellent! I think one of the best benefits of the dike is not the extra water hammers but the fact that you can build them on those capitals that are cursed with the "river coming up one tile next to it, then having a lake instead."

    Spoiler :


    Here I am trying to capture a former Greek city. The cannons finally did something for once - they bombarded defenses. Cannons and cavalries really do not make a good combination due to the movement disparity.

    Spoiler :


    With the war coming to a close, I have split my stack to simultaneously attack Athens and Sparta.

    Spoiler :


    Knowing that other civilizations would probably try to annoy me by settling the extra land, I did so first.

    Spoiler :


    Look at all of this ... TWELVE unhappiness from the war, and one from emancipation! I need to wrap this one up quickly ....

    Spoiler :


    Of course, while the war was going on, I spied on Boudica vs Peter, prepared to bribe either of them out of the war if necessary. What's funny here is seeing Boudica have a huge stack of infantry, yet not attacking Peter's wounded stack of cuirassiers!

    Spoiler :


    With a new, economical growth about to happen after the war, I bit the bullet and survived the three turns of anarchy.

    Spoiler :


    Ironically enough, Bismarck is the first to take a city in the Peter/Bismarck vs Boudica war.

    Spoiler :


    Finally. Yokohama is Tokugawa's last city.

    Spoiler :


    He's done for.

    Spoiler :


    And to gain additional security, I sign a defensive pact with Hannibal.

    Spoiler :


    Post-War Map.

    Spoiler :


    Domestic Advisor

    Spoiler :


    Technology

    Spoiler :


    Information. I am getting +1 with Boudica now ... hopefully that will go up!

    Spoiler :


    Demographics

    Spoiler :


    Power graph

    Spoiler :


    I have a save below, and I THINK it's for this game.

    Oh and last thing ... the curveball in this round was Pericles sending his 6-unit stack to me.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. raxid

    raxid Warlord

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    Worst curveball ever. You're lucky this is a very entertaining read otherwise... =p
     
  20. Revenant

    Revenant Warlord

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    Wow Bismarck's power really shot up there. I thought it was only ever the human player that had such dramatic rises in military power.
     

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