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DMOC's DEITY Game #4 - Suryavarman II

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by DMOC, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

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    I like the 3E city too. Easy to whip, can share tons of food, has lots of forests, and can eventually run a lot of scientists once irrigated. Nice site.

    When I first saw the map I thought you could have potentially settled 1S to get the bananas and dye in your BFC and farm them to grow and whip your capital more. Looking back it probably would've cost you a hefty amount of workers turns, but it seems like a decent start as it gives the workers something to do before BW and it makes the city viable before Fishing. Then, once you get Fishing and you settle your 3E site, you can pump out workboats/settlers/workers and find commerce elsewhere (such as the Gold, which I'd put as a 3rd city site, simply because 3E is close enough to the cap that it isn't that expensive of a 2nd city on Deity with the increase maintenance, plus it is better for Settle/Worker/Workboat pumping).
     
  2. vanillasine

    vanillasine Warlord

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    yeah i noticed this map generator blankets the planet in forest -- mathematics early for some extra hammers seems like a good idea here.
     
  3. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    Without any workable commerce tile, BW is very expensive to research, but if you research Fishing first and work multiple 2:food:2:commerce: coast tiles, it can help research BW faster. It only takes 5 turns to build a workboat working that plain hill mine + 2 center tile :hammers:. So you will have your 2 boats out before BW is even researched. This order gives faster commerce.

    I do not like whipping the capital especially without a granary. you need the full pops to work commerce tiles here, and i think it is better to get 2 workers out chopping instead of whipping.

    About the gold city, yes, even if you just work the gold and have it build a worker, that would almost double your research. The capital is food and hammer rich, no need to worry about your settler production.

    With a commerce poor capital, a fast secondary commerce city is very helpful to research the important early techs and support the REX.
     
  4. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    You've convinced me to settle 3N of the capital instead of 3W. It will be interesting to see how it turns out. So this way would gain commerce but sacrifice some early chops ....

    Perhaps I could settle the 3 clam site as the third city.
     
  5. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    3N of Capital to share 1 clam is certainly an option. But since we intend to use the capital as an early GP farm, I doubt there will be much sharing once the happy caps lift.

    So another option for the gold city is 1N of gold after exploring more to the west; it looks coastal and it certainly will pick up many more land tiles. It could be food poor but as long as it helps with the early tech and REX that alone justfies it.

    It is also a bit early to discuss all the settling decisions, more exploration is needed to allow more strategic considerations about AI locations, blocking, and possibly better city locations. e.g. As soon I see a marble, I would divert the scout to explore all around it for food since it is a must settle spot. if we locate a nice spot around the Marble, I would send my first Warrior to fortify around it to prevent a barb city spawn near it.
     
  6. Kikka

    Kikka Chieftain

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    Pls do some more scouting cause BW can make u change city priorities.
    Consider a extra WB to do even more scouting
     
  7. Mec AntiKythera

    Mec AntiKythera King

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    3E and building WB's soon or 3N both look strong to me.
     
  8. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Round 2: 3650 BC to 2840 BC [18 Turns] - The Ubiquitous Vegetation

    Well, it looks like I rolled a pretty tough map, or perhaps it's just standard for this script.

    I decided to go with ABCF's strategy of Fishing first, then Bronze Working, due to the low commerce. (There's no workable tile that provides a single commerce other than the city center and the coast.)



    After Fishing was done, I selected Bronze Working.



    I started on a workboat as soon as I finished the warrior. I suppose I could have started this a turn earlier and finished the warrior after this workboat, but I wanted to make sure I got a warrior out to the west to provide some fogbusting. There seems to be an awful lot of open land on this map.



    After narrowly avoiding being next to an archer, my scout has now parked himself here for strictly fog-busting purposes. It also helps that this looks like a good spot where other civilizations could meet us.



    Here's the capital once it grew to size 3. I made sure that it always worked the 6F corn. Note that I'm emphasizing production, and have the plains hill in my capital mined.



    With nothing else to do, my worker goes to the gold to get it mined while the capital builds its second workboat. This is another awesome facet of being Creative, the capital gets it's second border pop on turn 25.



    Interesting ... so we are going to border the Vikings. I suppose it's time to regenerate so we end up next to a peaceful leader.

    Kidding!

    In all seriousness, should I go and meet Ragnar? He could plan an early war vs me and it doesn't look like he's coastal, so no early Sailing + trade routes just yet.

    Also, we have met Willem van Oranje. Another leader I don't like to have in a game .... ugh. :mad:



    I stopped on turn 29, because this is when I have to make some important decisions.

    First of all - a settler in production? Or would it be better off with another worker, and then having both workers available to chop quick settlers? To be honest I would prefer the settler myself. It's only 8 turns. I may need to stick in another warrior there. I only have two. One's in the capital and the other is fortified to the west.



    The map as the Khmer know it. We have met Mehmed II. So we now have 3 leaders (Mehmed II, Ragnar, Willem van Oranje) that I personally dislike ... :cry:



    With the two clams being worked, I'm getting 4 extra commerce a turn, which is good. Looking at the map, there doesn't seem to be a great city spot other than the three I've pointed out (the new city site has corn and marble). I made a mistake on the marble city placement (I think it should be 1 south so it can eventually work banana, or perhaps 1 west) but otherwise the general location looks appealing.

    I'm still edging on settling 3N of the capital as the first city, and then perhaps settling the 2 other cities indicated. The problem is, they don't provide much blocking value, although I guess I don't need it now, as I haven't met any AI to the west of me yet (all the 3 leaders that I'm aware of are to the east) and there isn't a great blocking city for Ragnar. Furthermore, he's one of the last leaders I'd want to settle next to.

    I plan on researching The Wheel and then Archery, if the bronze isn't under that plains hill in my capital. There seems like too much empty space to risk surviving on warriors. I'm hoping the extra military units I build can help me explore more to the west, near the floodplains.

    Last thing - should I whip the settler? I would guess not, since there's no granary and I would have to burn a turn in anarchy, whereas I could swap to slavery after the settler is produced and before my second city is created.

    I've got the save attached. It looks like a challenging game.... :goodjob:
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    Good round. I think you made the right call leaving your scout where it is. You're better off fog busting I think than meeting that idiot neighbor.

    I'm torn now on settling 3N or 3E. I think I'm going to switch my suggestion from 3E to 3N, but your capital is strong enough that you might even be able to get both cities up and running quickly.

    Another idea just for funsies is settling on the dye. Have it build/chop a lighthouse and a library. Then at size 6 it could work the three lake tiles, a farmed banana, and 2 scientists. The city wouldn't be great. But it's an idea. Shrug.
     
  10. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    Looks like a few barb archers already roaming around, will need some more warriors before the settler. Why not grow to happy cap (5) so you can work one more coast tile?

    Once BW is in, an extra worker will be really handy for chopping settler/archers.

    3N has so many water tiles diminishing the long-term potential of the 2nd city; besides, your capital will need to work that clam for building settlers.

    That corn/marble/banana/river site is super nice, it can be a monster HE/prod city. looks like a really cool REX game; cheap workers/granary/library+free border pop... delicious (if you can manage the commerce ;).
     
  11. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

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    With seeing the gold mined now and work boats built, i would kick your butt if you'd go for the hill city instead of 3N ;) Worker can chop a bit, and you can get the 3rd city out fast, but this map will be a bit rough on commerce and no FIN or PHI leader, soo i would jump on that gold like a chocolate tree :D
    Edith just saw your other question, settler first i'd say no 2nd worker cuz your city site is ready to go. I usually do a 2nd worker first if iam not sure yet where to settle.
     
  12. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    I shadowed once game created with planet generator and from what I remember this script tends to place a lot forests (like really a lot), but can have vast areas completely without resources.
    That's why you see it a little bit "weird", it's true, this is weird script and I would not recommend it anyone to use, but I understand that you're too used to normal scripts, so should be ok ;-).
     
  13. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

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    If there's no copper surely you have to go directly to archery? The barb will be in shortly and on the corn farm like a chocolate tree!

    I like this unusual script, we've all played plenty of fractals. It's the same for the AIs after all, so if there's a ton of forest you would think the human would be more intelligent about chopping and get an advantage. Especially with expansive workers :hmm:
     
  14. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    I was debating 3e or 3n as well, but 1n of the gold works as well. I want to work the gold ASAP so I'm not too keen on working the clams to grow now.

    I think I should be fine after 1 settler is done, but afterwards, I'll definitely produce 2 warriors minimum afterwards, and perhaps that can be done while the capital grows to size 5. Working that extra coast is just 2f and 2c so I'm not sure it's worth the delay. I'll certainly work it later once I get a lighthouse in the capital.

    I agree, this game looks like it can be very fun. But AI's can grab up land easily ... so I better hurry.

    Yeah, I'll settle the gold city first.

    Well, hopefully all of us enjoy this game. :goodjob:

    Yes, definitely Archery.

    I've played the next round, and things look okay. We haven't died yet .... :sad:
     
  15. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    I would give serious consideration to skipping archery and using warriors for barb protection. There are many forested hills and choke points that make this viable with the approaching deity AI rex.
     
  16. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Round 3: 2840 BC to 1640 BC [31 Turns] - Barbarian Spearmen

    Once Bronze Working was completed, my worker instantly chopped. I wanted to chop this tile so that I could eventually put a mine over it. I researched The Wheel in order to connect my cities.



    There is copper, but it's not in a location that I want to settle with my second city.



    I settled Hariharalaya so that it could work the gold tile immediately. I was thinking about having access to the clams, but I'm going to be sharing that tile with another city 3e of the capital, so there's going to be a bit too much clutter. It's better long-term for this city. I started on a worker.

    As the screenshot shows, I switched to slavery last turn.



    It's 12 turns for a worker, not bad for a size 1 city. My worker built some roads to connect Hariharalaya to Yasodharapura.



    On turn 40, I researched Archery. I needed this for defense vs. the barbarians. It's only 3 turns thanks to the gold.



    Also on this turn, I began a settler. I want to get 3 cities before 2000 BC again. :goodjob:



    Unfortunately, my warriors reveled that the west would not be as free as I thought. This convinced me to settle my second city west, and to save the 3 clam site for later. The good news is that Hannibal is not creative, and that "Hadrumetum" is the third name in the Carthage city naming sequence, so it should be recently founded.



    Seeing Hannibal so close by, I bit the bullet and whipped the settler. The capital will grow back quickly with its 3 food tiles anyway. The overflow would go into a 1-turn archer.



    Here's where Angkor Thom was founded. I had to settle it a tile south of where I originally wanted it to be. I knew that the number one priority for this city was keeping the corn. If the corn wasn't under my control, the city would be almost useless. Therefore, I had to found it so that the corn was within the first ring of the city. Yes, Sury is creative, but I never underestimate the deity AI's ability to culturally overwhelm the human player. With this configuration, Angkor Thom should be able to keep the corn and bananas as long as it has equal to or more border pops than Hadrumetum. Hannibal could, though, found other cities nearby to help his culture.

    The hill under the city would turn out to be useful, as you'll see later.

    I'm thinking that this city would make a nice production city, but it can also work some cottages with its riverside grasslands.



    Here's an example of how archers saved me this game. 2 barbarian achers approached the capital, and my archer fortified in the forested hill was able to easily kill one. (The other one, shown wounded in the screenshot, was killed later.) I laugh when I see people say that archery is a waste of a technology. I'd have to start a new map if that were the case. One single warrior in a fortified hill might not be able to hold off 2 archers coming at once.



    With the border pop of Angkor Thom, I decide to STEAL one of Hannibal's forest. Ha ha! :goodjob: I chopped the plains tile since I want to encourage him to cottage those tiles instead of the better grassland ones.



    Hariharalaya worked the cows while it grew to size 2. Once it's size 2, I plan on keeping the gold tile worked for at least 30+ turns. The workboat (in production) is going to explore to the north and then the east. Hariharalaya would build a granary after the workboat.



    Okay ... so I've got barbarian spearmen to worry about now? :mad: I chose to sacrifice this warrior by moving him south west, and hopefully after the barbarian spearmen killed him he would continue west. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case as the spearmen went to Angkor Thom.



    More spearmen?!? :mad:



    Thanks to my early road network, I can get my archers to the city more easily. One of the benefits of having archers is that you can afford to fight spearmen out in the open whereas warriors are more restricted to city defense. This reduces the chances of getting pillaged.

    The wounded barbarian spearmen to the west attacked my warrior defending Angkor Thom and was killed. Good thing it was on a hill and he attacked over a river ...



    Unfortunately, 2 turns later, TWO barbarian spearmen are now approaching the city. :shake: I'll try to fight the northern one out in the open so my workers can actually chop some forests and possibly farm or cottage or mine. I'll leave the southern spearmen to attack my warriors defending the city, who should win.



    Yasodharapura is making a settler. There's a workboat with 1 turn left in production, which will eventually go to the third clams.



    The larger map. I have pegged a city on the desert hill as a potential production / Heroic Epic site. Speaking of the HE, I should get a unit to 10 xp with all the barbarians around ...



    I'm wondering when Hannibal will send me that Jewish Missionary of his ... I would like to share his religion.

    Plan for next round: deal with barbarians, get libraries for science, settle my 4th and possibly 5th city, and perhaps beeline to aesthetics. Does anyone have suggestions on what I should build in my 3 cities? (Current builds: Angkor Thom an archer, Hariharalaya a granary, and Yasodharapura a settler and then a workboat).

    Here's the save. :crazyeye:
     

    Attached Files:

  17. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    Nice round, no archers no REX here.

    Edit: I suggest building workers in [I meant The gold city] instead of a granary. It is not gonna grow for now, and you need more workers to chop and build some cottages/roads. We need more commerce to support further REX.

    work some cottages at Anchor Tom, helps researching writing ASAP for scientists and OB with Hannibal.

    Sailing after writing will be important here for trade routes and improve the water tiles in capital. Anesth-Lit and get GL/NE in capital and bulb to lib.

    Explore more around the resource clusters for good city spots. (e.g. the Cow/Copper/Silk to the west)

    Hope no early DOWs...
     
  18. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Good points. I'll probably build a worker after the settler and workboat in the capital.

    In addition to what you said, I'm going to see if I can capture that barbarian city. It looks like it's in a good location, and perhaps it even blocks Mao Zedong from entering the area. His workboat came from the direction where my exploring workboat is going.
     
  19. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Round 4: 1640 BC to 1120 BC [14 Turns] - This Crowd is Tough to Appease

    At the start of the round, I realized that I neglected to open borders with Hannibal, who had a Jewish missionary in Hadrumetum. I also sent a worker to road the tile south of the corn, so that I could set early trade routes with Hannibal. Unfortunately, as I would find out, Hannibal neglected to connect Hadrumetum to the rest of his cities, so for a couple of turns I only got one foreign trade route. :shake:



    I planned on fighting the barbarian spearmen that came from the north out "in the open" which means outside of a city. I was successfully able to lure it to attack my archer in the forest and killed it. Even if the barbarian spearman had won with low health, I had a warrior next to the archer who could have cleaned him up if necessary. This is why archers were so important. That barbarian spearmen was not headed to a city, he was headed to the road network between Angkor Thom and Yasodharapura.

    Here's the evidence:



    You can also tell in the above screenshot that Hariharalaya is building a worker. I already have 4 workers, so this would be my fifth of the game.

    As expected, Hannibal spreads Judaism to me! :goodjob: I will convert next turn, because I want to wait until the workboat in Yasodharapura is finished, because that workboat can move while the anarchy happens, so I save a turn.



    Here's where Angkor Wat, the fourth city, was founded. I had it build a granary. I decided to let it have one of the capital's clams, so that it would grow fast. Yasodharapura (the capital) was going to build a settler the next turn, so there wasn't any point in having it grow. My plan is to build a fifth settler, then build a libary after the settler in Yasodharapura is finished. Notice how I have a one turn granary in the capital?

    Edit: I founded it here rather than the east, because it saved on maintenance costs, and there didn't seem to be a danger of Hannibal taking the place over (no settlers in sight).

    Angkor Wat's borders would take control of the third clams soon enough. And I've already got a workboat ready. The plan here is Granary -> Library, with perhaps a chop to facilitate production.



    Since we have a production bonus on granaries, I decided to have these workers chop into a granary while holding the archer for later. I have two workers here, and both of them will cottage their respective grasslands. Naturally, the granary was completed in one turn. A side note: I like how this mod stops my workers a turn before they chop, so I don't risk losing forests.

    Also, a funny thing to notice is that the forest I stole from hannibal to the south had a forest RE-GROW on the same tile. Hannibal has 76% control over that tile, so I'm hoping to get a libary quickly to further culturally pressure him.



    I met some more civilizations this round. If I win this game, I'll consider it my best game yet. Look at the foes I've got! Virtually all are militaristic, powerful, excellent leaders (including myself, Sury!) ... what happend to those Sitting Bulls or Hatshepsuts or any of the 3 Americans I could count on to divert those AI's away from me? :shake: That last AI better be one of those peaceful people. :mad:



    Once I researched Writing (1200 BC, turn 70) I began Sailing which would be followed by Aesthetics. Mao Zedong offered to open borders with me, but I'm going to wait until I get Sailing, since I don't want him to benefit from getting trade routes from me. I know he has trade route access to me because his workboat was exploring by my cities earlier. I did, however, open borders with Willem and Gilgamesh, because both had a -2 in diplomacy towards me, and one more -1 would mean they were annoyed (and they both have different religions than me). I wanted to get the +2 open borders diplomatic benefit.

    On this same turn, I also created another settler, aiming to found my fifth city to the west.

    *On turn 71, both Catherine and Cyrus go in WHEOOHRN mode. I'm not bordering them so I hope their target isn't me.



    I concluded the round on turn 72, where I have an impotant settling decision to make. Plus, I'm very busy today. :)

    Do I go up for my original spot which was 2 north of the cow (on the desert hill, very close to the barbarian city) or do I risk settling a little more south? Hannibal should be getting his 5th city very soon, though I don't think a settler is in sight. You can see China nearby. Mao should convert to Judaism soon thanks to Hannibal's missionaries. I am very tempted to settle 1SE of the copper and then with the 6th city, back to the desert hill. Then, my seventh city can claim a spot south of my capital.



    Here are my four cities.


    Angkor Thom already has 2 cottages. I am tempted to whip the libary for 2 population points this turn (at the start of the next round). It will grow back to size 3 soon enough and it will keep protecting the corn tile from Hannibal. I plan to cottage at least 3-4 more tiles in this city. I won't run scientists.



    Hariharalaya is still stuck on worker duty. Should I stick a libary after this worker? I'm tempted to produce yet another worker after this worker! We do have the forests.



    Yasodharapura is the best city here. It's at a good size and will finish the libary soon. I will run 2 scientsts from this city as soon as possible, and build an academy.



    Angkor Wat will build a libary next turn. I would have liked this city to run specialists, but it will be slower than the capital which is already at a good size to run scientists. I think I'll let this city grow, and build a mine on that hill tile. I'm not sure what to do with those grassland tiles yet. Cottaging without rivers seems lame, but I can't irrigate without Civil Service. Most likely, I'll just ignore them and use them as chop fodder.



    The current map. I've got signs cluttering the map but it should still be somewhat readable. I still have to get a settler down to the banana, dye, and clam site to the south, but maybe the capital's borders could expand before that hapens and cover that site for me anyway.



    Plan for next round.

    1. Finish Sailing, research Aesthetics. I could stick Masonry to connect the marble.
    2. Found my 5th and possibly 6th city (where??).
    3. Get Mao and Hannibal pleased, while keeping all other leaders cautious or better.
    4. Open borders with Mao once Sailing is researched.
    5. Try to send a unit or two to the barbarian city and see if I can capture it.
    6. Run 2 scientists in a city (which one, though?).
    7. I will build 2-3 more cotages.
    8. I will build 1 more worker not counting the one just about to be finished from Hariharalaya. Perhaps this isn't needed as I seem to have plenty of workers, but I will need them for the new cities.
    9. I will explore more with the workboat north and to the west. Eventually, the east.

    What do you think?

    Here's the save, if you want to take a look.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    That depends on whether the city is on a hill. But most likely Chairman Mao will be able to take it when you are busy building settler/archers/workers :D But if it is on a hill, it can actually block Mao for you for a while allowing you to put up other cities around it.

    About city priorities, I think we should settle toward West first since Hannibal is close to the West.

    city 4: near the copper/cow/silk/river site upon more scouting
    city 5: banana/clam/dye
    city 6: Either the Clam site East of capital or the Cow/copper site near the barb city (depending on Mao's success on taking it)

    We will need to have writing/scientists/sailing and maybe some cottages to be able to support this plan while not killing our research.

    Edit just saw your new post, so some of these points might not be relavent anymore.
     

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