DMOC's DEITY Game #4 - Suryavarman II

[DMOC]

Yeah, I chose to settle the clams site first, because there didn't seem to be much of a threat of Hannibal settling the east, and I felt that getting the clams site up would help me get my second great person out of that city, while the capital gets the first.

I'm thinking that Hariharalaya could make the settler for the 6th city, with the newest worker chopping to help ...

Edit: Just checked, my capital will expand in 43 turns, according to the game. It will be less when the library is built. That can cover up for the south. Of course, Hannibal could still settle something there ....

 

[vanillasine]

hey, I have a very noob, probably slightly embarrasing question.

is the "correct" (most efficient i guess) method to maximize research basically to be at either 100% science or 100% gold? Without any modifiers to either wealth or research? I don't believe anything is lost if you go to say 80% is it?

are you changing in accordance to what you're working on? if you need more production and get less commerce you go 100% gold, and when you get back on the commerce tiles you go back to 100% research?

 

[Mylene]

It's not always the best thing to do, let's say you want sailing for trade routes but you can only run at ~80%, i'll do that. 0/100 would only be equal or pay off if there are enough turns left till it is finished to make full use of the gold hoarded, which often isn't the case for early techs. Also later in the game it is possible that you get a gold boost from trades. I think LOL, geez that is one hard topic to explain
0/100 gets more valuable when you see what the AI researches, to wait them out.

 

[vanillasine]

0/100 gets more valuable when you see what the AI researches, to wait them out.

yeah I re-read the article on deficit research in the subforum, but it did not cover this. Not sure what you mean.

 

[whats a navy]

People run at 100% gold or science (called binary research) in order to run science at 100% the max amount of time so it will allow this science to pass through science multipliers like libraries and academies for greater affect. The game also rounds your commerce when converting to gold or science so it could shorten your total output by one because of rounding.

 

[vanillasine]

People run at 100% gold or science (called binary research) in order to run science at 100% the max amount of time so it will allow this science to pass through science multipliers like libraries and academies for greater affect. The game also rounds your commerce when converting to gold or science so it could shorten your total output by one because of rounding.

well i realize this with multipliers later in the game, but dmoc is doing this but he has no multipliers yet (round 2/3).

I play bts (i assumed actually that dmoc was playing the same, but i see no espionage points... so i guess he is doing vanilla), where supposedly the rounding thing doesn't matter anymore (according to someone in the article). But since he is doing vanilla, you are probably right this is why he's doing it.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Cow+Copper+3x Silk is a great site. I would settle on the river silk to get all 3 silk in the first ring and get the river bonus. This city alone is worth at least 40 GPT once Calendar is in.

About running scientists; chop/whip the lighthouse in capital once sailing is in, it will have plenty of food to run 2 scientists And pump settlers.

Do Cyrus and Cathy have worst enemies? if not, we might need to prepare to beef up the defenses.. At least our eastern cities are on hills...

 

[DMOC]

well i realize this with multipliers later in the game, but dmoc is doing this but he has no multipliers yet (round 2/3).

I play bts (i assumed actually that dmoc was playing the same, but i see no espionage points... so i guess he is doing vanilla), where supposedly the rounding thing doesn't matter anymore (according to someone in the article). But since he is doing vanilla, you are probably right this is why he's doing it.

I'm playing Beyond the Sword. Sury is not a leader in vanilla Civ.

I run binary largely out of habit, as it really doesn't benefit me that much until I get libaries up (which are in production anyway). I don't always do binary, such as on the last turn of research for a certain technology in which I don't have enough gold to finish it at 100%, but I can finish the technology at 70%, for instance. I also think it benefits you because I think you get a bonus on research when more leaders know the certain technology.

ABCF that is a very nice site as well, on top of the silk. If that was an ivory resource, for instance, I'd do it without hesitation, but I was wondering if it would be better to save the silk so that I can work its full improved tile. However, getting the +2 river and eventual levee bonus is also important. It also blocks Hannibal better.

I would be absolutely shocked if Catherine and/or Cyrus was after me. They were some of the last civilizations to meet me, so I'm almost certainly far away from them. Of course, you never know with Catherine as she is pleased with everyone else she knows except me! Good thing I have a few archers to spare for that eastern city, Angkor Wat. I think I'm done settling toward the east.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Since that silk is on a plain tile, it is better to settle on top it to gain 1+1 This city is food poor, i d rather work it as a 2 /1/2 tile now than a 1 /1/5 tile many turns later after Calendar.

I hate to say this but there could be a real chance Cathy is after you since she is pleased with everyone else. Check if she has OB with Ragnar (your Eastern neighbor). If yes, than you will need to sacrifice some REX for protection.

Good news is even if she DOWs, she has a long march to you, so she can only do wave attacks. So you will have plenty of time to reinfoce your defenses after killing each stack. Here is my proposed plan:

1. Get Masonary after sailing, so you can whip a wall when needed
2. Move all existing archers to the Eastern city (given reduced barb threats)
3. Build a barracks in the capital, then some CG1 archers.

If she DOWs, the first wave will probably be a mix of Malee/chariots, so 5-6 CG1 archers + wall should be able to hold.

 

[DMOC]

I have played until I have achieved the Great Library. (Approx. 200 AD EDIT 200 BC). I'll try to post it up soon, although there's a real chance I have to delay it for possibly weeks if I can't get back to my PC to post updates.

The good news is that Cathy was not after me. In fact, she kept reverting to last game Boudica, in and out of wheoohrn.

By the way, that last AI turned out to be Montezuma.

 

[vanillasine]

I'm playing Beyond the Sword. Sury is not a leader in vanilla Civ.

I run binary largely out of habit, as it really doesn't benefit me that much until I get libaries up (which are in production anyway). I don't always do binary, such as on the last turn of research for a certain technology in which I don't have enough gold to finish it at 100%, but I can finish the technology at 70%, for instance. I also think it benefits you because I think you get a bonus on research when more leaders know the certain technology.

oops. ok so you just turn espionage off period for your games, i missed that in the settings i guess.

+ok, i see where sometimes waiting is better if some AI gets your tech while you're collecting gold then u swtich back to 100% research it does it faster.

ty

 

[awilder]

Wow, TGLib 200AD? I thought that was late even for Immortal! What's TGL date-range look like for deity?

 

[lymond]

oops. ok so you just turn espionage off period for your games, i missed that in the settings i guess.

espionage is on...not sure what you are seeing that would make you think it is not on

 

[ABigCivFan]

This was a low commerce capital; also DOMC prob did a hard-REX game further slowing the research pace. Hence the late GL. I am curious about when he reaches COL and CS. When you have Hannibal and Williem in the game, you really need to shoot for ~600 AD lib date and that requires early Caste system and multiple bulb here.

 

[awilder]

I was wondering more about what the AI was doing about TGL than DMOC

 

[DMOC]

Round 5: 1120 BC to 100 BC [40 Turns] - Dual Wonder Construction, Again, Part 1

To those of you mentioning about my "200 AD" Great Library date, that was a typo. I meant to say before 200 BC. Look at the round to see when it happened, but now there's no way I can hide my mistake now.

I don't like to keep building the Great Library as it seems like I do that all the time, but I've got marble right next to a GP capital, so I guess it's the best way to handle this game.

But first things first ... city #5, right on top of the silk. Take that, Hannibal. He must have a coastal start because most deity AI's expand faster than him.



On turn 76, I start running my first science specialists!



Meanwhile, Hannibal founds Confucianism. Hannibal built The Oracle, The Colossus, and the Temple of Artemis, so he is researching well. The funny thing is, he didn't build what would bave been a better wonder for him - The Great Lighthouse. Willem built that wonder.

I'm not worried about the culture from Confucianism. Unless Hannibal converts to Confucianism, of course, which shouldn't happen. Oh, don't worry about that barbarian axeman by Nagara Jayasri. He'll have 2 archers and a warrior to face there.



Good news! Cyrus now faces two enemies! He asked me to attack Mao the next turn. I refused, of course.



During turn 87 (700 BC) I found my sixth city. Mao screwed up with my plan with his settlement of Hangzhou, but Rajavihara should be a decent production city. I am definitely farming the floodplains here. My build order in that city was Granary -> Swordsman



I finished Aesthetics, and checked the technology screen. Ragnar was the only other leader with that technology, so it looks like the Aesthetics trade may rule again this game.

After Aesthetics, I researched Mysticism for backfilling purposes, and then started on a trading splurge.



I settled Isvarapura, my seventh city, south of the capital. It will be a marginal hybrid city. I don't plan on cottaging this city ... probably ever. I might just farm whatever grassland is next to that 3-water lake and workshop it later. Perhaps I can build a navy later. ... or make it a Globe Theatre city.



Ragnar comes with this demand.

This one, I agreed. It is important to keep someone, especially an aggressive leader like him, happy. Even moreso, he borders me, and AI's are more likely to declare war when they border someone. This was an easy decision. Moreover, the only deal Cyrus and I had were open borders. Big deal.



In better news, my great scientist arrived! He arrives in 550 BC, a respectable date, at least for me. I like getting my Great Scientists for non-philosophical leaders at around 500 BC.



Tech screen on turn 94, after trading around Aesthetics. Notice what technology I am researching now.



Once I hit the turn 100 mark, I figured I should stop and analyze my position. First, here's the map. It's too bad my exploring workboat was killed by a barbarian galley. I highly doubt anyone is to southwest. Most likely, the land to my east is split into northern and southern regions. I need to explore there.



Yasodharapura, rapidly building research in anticipation of The Great Library.



The general situation around my western front. I have tile yields on so you can tell which tiles I'm working in my cities. Angkor Thom is at its happy cap, which explains why I'm not working the corn.



Angkor Wat. I'm not going to finish the Shwedagon Paya, so it will be strictly for fail-gold. We have the gold (resource) so this wonder is being built at double speed. Also, notice that I'm getting a great scientist from here sooner than I will get another scientist from the capital. That's what I want, because eventually the capital will be so good at generating great people that Angkor Wat can't do that job anymore.



Lastly ... demographics and tech screen! Mao is the only one missing from the tech screen, but he has exactly all the techs I do.




I paused at turn 100 and I feel like it helps my game and increases focus, so I reduce sloppy mistakes.

Moving on ... I need to find out if I nail the two wonders.

[To be continued in next post.]

 

[DMOC]

Round 5: 1120 BC to 100 BC [40 Turns] - Dual Wonder Construction, Again, Part 2


Success! I earned 72 gold from the city. This gives me 8 cities for the game, which is enough for me to go to the Renaissance, so I'm perfectly fine. Unfortunately, my chances of getting a 10xp unit are low ... this is one part of my game that I want to improve later.

Minoan will be a science city.



I did a double civic switch. It was a pain to try and negotiate for Monarchy, but eventually it worked. I was able to research a turn into Monarchy after I finished Monotheism, and then I did an Aesthetics - Monarchy + 30gold from Mehmed. This is great - there are some civilizations with these favorite civics (Ragnar, Catherine). The key one is Ragnar, here. In fact, before I did this, I gifted a city to him, just so that he would be pleased enough to trade with me!





The extra chops I got from the Organized Religion civic helped the wonder construction:



I'm so confident in getting the wonder, that I trade Literature away!



While this was happening, I wasn't sure about what to build in Angkor Thom. This is at the stage of the game where there are multiple options for cities to build, and I would suggest that one of my weaknesses in Civ4 is figuring out which is the right building to build at the right time as the game approaches 1 AD. In Angkor Thom, I decided to build a Jewish Monastery for cultural protection vs Hannibal and a slight research boost. I figured a Baray wouldn't be much use because this city already has a lot of food. I did build a baray in that gold city (Hariharalaya) to the north.

Of course, I did that just after this city built the Parthenon. The dual wonder construction I did in the Willem game has been repeated here. The Parthenon will be a great help to the GP farm, and will not pollute it with artist pollution since it's not even in Yasodharapura!



I ended the round at 100 BC, just before the AD's come along. A couple of noteworthy things happened this turn.

First, I stole a worker.

I'm not sure if that warrior will survive vs. barbarian attacks ... if they do attack. There are 4 barbarian archers in that city, which makes me think it's high time I build some more military to try and take over that land.



Also, I got two great people in one turn.

What happened? I got the Great Artist from Music since I was the first to research that technology. Then, the Great Scientist came from Angkor Wat to the east. That worked out perfectly, because my capital is on pace to give me another great scientist, which will be accelerated with the National Epic, still in production.



Since that's the end of the round, let's have some in-depth screenshots.

Here's Yasodharapura. This is my plan:

1. Get the National Epic while at size 10
2. When at size 10, produce a military unit for happiness (so size 11)
3. Keep running Great Scientists even after the next one is due in 6 turns.

Does anyone else have thoughts?



Nagara Jayasri is going to finish this settler for the stone/horses/pigs city to the south. It's sandwiched between two barbarian cities, but as long as I bring at least 1 swordsmen and another unit, I should be fine. Afterwards, it will finish up the confucian missionary in production. I really wish I can get Calendar in a trade soon so that the silk can be improved. This city has been a production city so far, but I want to convert it to more of a hybrid with the silk.



Angkor Thom is putting more and more cultural pressure on Hannibal. After the Jewish Monastery, I'm not sure what to build. Perhaps more military for happy reasons or to protect the future settler?



Rajavihara looks like it could be a solid Heroic Epic site in the future. I was thinking of putting a barracks here, and then making some military for happy cap reasons (hereditary rule) or exploration. I only have 1 warrior exploring, and he's in Ragnar's territory. What do you think? This city can also build research if necessary.



Wonders, Tech, and Dempgraphics. Yeah, I'm dead last in power. Who cares, all other leaders including the 3 bordering me are in a war or not planning on one.







Here's the land. I saved before taking this screenshot so you didn't have to see a screen filled with signs.





The plan now is:

1. Beeline to Civil Service, Beeline to Liberalism
2. Use the Great Scientist to bulb Philosophy
3. Use the Great Artist to start a golden age
4. GROW GROW GROW cities
5. Stay out of trouble
6. Found the stone + horses + pigs site sandwiched between two barbarian cities to the southwest. I plan to found it on the stone.

On a final note to this round, I want to say that I will be going away from my PC for a while to continue my education. I'm not sure when I'll return (could be 2 weeks, could be 1 month) but when I do I will be sure to continue this game. But right now, the game's progress will be paused. Feel free to comment, of course, as I'll still have internet access every day. This game has been immensely fun for me so far.

 

[bestbrian]

Um, your stupid RL education is cutting into my Civ education; do something about that.

Very nice last couple of rounds. I just started my third Deity game, and I'm learning quite a bit; thanks DMOC.

The only thing I would add is what you already seem to know: time to get some military out.

 

[JammerUno]

No plans for building the sistine chapel for failgold as well?

Isn't building a temple a better option than HR units?

 

[kossin]

HR units often costs less hammers in the short term. Keeping growth going can be way more important than saving some gpt (and you can delete them as you acquire more resources etc.)