Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by DMOC, Jan 27, 2011.
^Yes that's possible.
Monty did that to me in another game a while ago too, cause I refused hes demand.
He is also up until now the only vassal I have had, that broke free because I demanded a resource
What really made that hilarious was the fact, that I just defeated him with rifles versus hes jags, due to him being on a lonely continent etc. etc. I still remember., cause I laughed a lot about that.
He is also the only vassal I have seen an AI loose, due to him breaking free. Mansa Musa made a colony and rolled Monty, it didnt take more than 20-25 turns before Monty decided enough was enough
Ya ya, I know when warring the master etc, the vassal eventually etc. etc. but that wasnt the case here. He just flat out broke free. They were diff religions from Montys birth, maybe that started it, I dunno, btw, WHO knows what drives Monty
Back to game, still looking good, DMOC
I think it has something to do with Monty. I played Always War map once and that crazy dude declared on Toku (they both were at war with me). Could not believe my eyes then.
Great read so far DMOC. Very interesting game. I am amazed at how much land you got and how you are using overlap a lot. I like it a lot. Keep it coming.
Sorry everyone, I've been occupied in the past few days. I have had a lot of art and math homework to do (yes, I am not a math-only guy ...) and in addition, I have found this game called Minecraft. I am really trying to set aside time for this.
I'm late in the thread so I apologize for the "outdated" question.
I'm curious why this would be a good HE city? It does have very good production, but where will the food come from to grow it? I only see cow (I don't think the bananas are in play?
EDIT: Forget it. I just saw the Floodplains.
Round 7: 300 AD to 1200 AD [54 Turns] - World War I
Math question of the round: How many positive integers less than 2002 are multiples of 3 and 4, but not 5?
Congratulations to Kid R who successfully solved the math question of round 6.
However, I think you're more interested in the actual gameplay, and the title of the round (see above) will make things intriguing.
To recap my goals of the round:
1. Obtain Theocracy to get extra experience points
2. Build a considerable force of cuirassiers. They are called heavy horseman due to the BAT mod.
3. Attack and hopefully destroy Hannibal
4. Before that, use the Taj Mahal to help accelerate military production
5. Lastly, keep Ragnar happy
I was able to easily obtain objective #1. I used the last turn of the Golden Age to set my civics as Hereditary Rule, Bureaucracy, Slavery, Decentralization, and Theocracy. I get diplomatic bonuses with HR from Catherine, Gilgamesh, and most importantly, Ragnar.
The loss of Pacifism meant that my next Great Scientist wouldn't appear until turn 129. I settled Niels Bohr in the capital. Building an academy in a third city (I have 2 academies now) would provide almost the same benefit as settling this scientist in the capital. The difference is that the capital will get the benefit even if I am researching 0%, whereas an academy would work best with 100% research. Additionally, Yasodharapura will be the first city in my civilization to get a university.
4 turns later, I was finally able to obtain a complete world map. It looks like everyone is well-balanced here, which is naturally a good thing.
In preparation for the war, I had Rajavihara produce military units and buildings. I kept the longbowman and cataput at 1 turn left in the queue because I hadn't yet spread Judaism to the city. There's a missionary on the city spot with 0 movement points left. In some cases, you can cut down on maintenance costs if you hold off on producing partially-built military.
At the 500 AD, my economy is still strong. The military situation will improve eventually. I am #2 in land area and will be #1 later.
The Top 5 Cities & Wonders screen is finally starting to accurately reflect the actual top cities in the game. Yasodharapura's population strength, which helps with Great People generation and overall production, is really the key to my game.
With one turn left for Liberalism (I will get it at 540 AD), it looks like I will win the free technology. I choose Nationalism, of course, and then start researching Machinery because it is a prerequisite of many important technologies. In retrospect, I could have also chosen Gunpowder or Military Tradition, but I got Gunpowder from Catherine in a trade later. The only missing leader in this screenshot is Mao, and he is technologically inferior to Montezuma, which is incredibly egregious.
I use 6 forest chops to help accelerate production of the Taj Mahal. I had to hurry because Hannibal, Willem, and Catherine already had Nationalism. Note: I chose to build the wonder here over the capital because it simply had more forests to chop!
The turn 151 power rankings are up! I'm so bad, I don't even make the list! The only silver lining is that Hannibal is the other leader who fails to crack the top 8 out of a field of 10.
Hopefully the extra whipping I perform will increase my power. Notice that Military Tradition will be discovered in 1 turn, so this whipped "knight" is actually going to be a heavy footman (the cuirassier equivalent). Even if it was a knight, it only costs 50 gold to upgrade from a knight to a heavy footman. I actually built about 6 knights before this turn.
The next turn, it's clear that my empire is in full-fledged military mode. I used a Great Scientist to bulb part of Printing Press, which explains why it's almost completed.
You know I can't do that, Hannibal, especially if I'm going to war with you!
I want to take a little bit of a break from the military progress to show how I go about developing a city this late in the game. This is Zhou, the former barbarian city to the west. I eventually want it to be a strong commerce city, but Zhou has no food resources at all! It has grassland, which is good, but no resources! (Horses don't count since I'm giving them to Banteay Kdei.) So what I did was put enough farms early so that the city could grow, and then I put down cottages, preferably riverside first. Later on, I plan to mow down a farm or two and insert a cottage instead. Hopefully this leads to a process of "quick" growth followed by healthy research.
Now that I've explained that, I can get back to military. But wait ...
Seriously, Mehmed II? I thought he was going to go after Willem, his worst enemy. I barely border him at all...
That sucks. Mehmed II completely ruined my plans. It looks like I can't stop him, so I won't win. I played a couple of extra turns (to 1200 AD), but it's looking very, very, very bleak despite my best efforts.
What should I do? Do you guys want to see what happens next? It's not pretty, since I've literally got one unit defending my eastern cities. I'll reserve a couple of posts up ahead in case, but my heart isn't into updating. Mehmed is second in power in this world, second only to Ragnar ....
[To be continued in the next post]
[Continued from previous post]
Part 2 of Round 7
All right everyone, I suppose I should tell you what happened. But before we can do this, let's go a few turns back, perhaps 15 turns. At that time, Ragnar was pleased with me, and I was happy with that. It didn't make me immune to a declaration of war from him, but it dramatically reduced the likelihood of one happening. In addition, Ragnar was busy occupying hismelf with other civilzations' cities (Cyrus). But then, after checking the scoreboard at the start of every turn out of habit, I noticed that a red fist had disappeared from Mehmed II. That meant his war with Willem was over. But a few turns later, the fist appeared again! The problem with this situation was that Mehmed II was annoyed with both Willem and me - so I knew that there would be a much greater chance that he would target me. I wasn't sure what to do about this, but I found an opportunity in this:
This would prove to be, literally a lifesaver. Because once I researched Military Tradition ...
Yes! A defensive pact with the most powerful civilization on the planet! And if you look closely at the last screenshot of part 1 ... you'll see that when Mehmed II declares war on me, his stack of doom will be bumped out of Ragnar's territory and go 3 tiles south back to Ottoman territory. And if Mehmed moves his stack north, it will eventually be right next to Roskilde! So Mehmed will be auto-assigned to attack Ragnar rather than me!
In fact, I decide to screw Mehmed even more! It is really nice that Catherine will sign defensive pacts when she is pleased.
This situation illustrates yet another benefit of researching Military Tradition early. I sense that my Civilization game has evolved in the past few years. I used to rely heavily on siege and riflemen and hated horses, but now I have come to embrace mounted unit warfare.
As expected, Mehmed II declared war on me following that turn, and then Catherine and Ragnar joined me vs. him. Silly Mehmed ... it's turn 2 of his war, and he and Ragnar are already killing each other. You can tell that their stacks are fairly large because there are 7 white dots above the unit displayed. Any stack composed of 7 or more units has those 7 white dots.
Meanwhile, I had my own war to begin. So starting on turn 157, 940 AD, I declared war on Hannibal. You can see that this situation merits the title of World War I, especially when Mao was the victim of an AP resolution that denied trade to him.
Turn #1: 940 AD
Time to start the city-capturing! I already had 3 stacks ready to attack. One was to the eastern peninsula city which was weakly defended. The other two, which were considerably bigger, would attack the core of Carthage. I checked the odds of my best horses versus the defenders in Hadrumetum. 69% odds? Excellent!
I believe I used one catapult as suicide to spread collateral damage, and one accuracy cataput to bombard city defenses. They weren't needed, but I didn't need them that much and wanted to preserve my valuable horses as much as possible. In the end, I lose 1 military unit, and Hannibal loses 6. The city is mine, and I use a defensive unit to attack the last defender so that my longbowmen can defend the city while the horses have more flexibility about where they can move next.
Moreover, I move my second stack in position to capture Hippo the following turn. The positioning of the hills and lake really limits the mobility of horses as they could not attack Hippo on the first turn. The silver lining is that I can move catapults with the horses in the same stack.
At this point, all looked well ... but the game threw another curveball at me.
Turn #2: 960 AD
Mao Zedong declares war on me!
A crazy war situation only became worse now that Mao, definitely bribed by Hannibal, is against me. There's no way I could have gotten Mao on my side since he turned cautious towards me. What's worse is that I am Mao's only neighbor, so he will be 100% focused on attacking me! The following screenshot shows just one of Mao's three stacks that are positioned to attack my cities...
...and did I mention that I only have one unit defending my northern cities?
The stack is outdated, but Mao certainly has a lot more units somewhere ... he's been the Montezuma of this game, which is ironic since Montezuma is also here.
Stay tuned as I try to fight a 2 front war while avoiding Mehmed's attention ...
[To be continued in the next post]
[Continued from previous post]
Part 3 of Round 7
Still on turn 2 of the war, my small stack was able to capture Thaspus. It had enough strength so that Mao's stack of outdated units nearby couldn't harm it. I eventually exterminated the Chinese stack after bringing in some extra horsemen produced by my eastern cities.
After I captured Hippo, this is the bleak situation Carthage was facing.
I wasn't sure if I had enough horses left to make a run at Carthage, so I used a sentry horseman to find out. Mao's weak stack by Carthage convinced me to keep any horse with 8 strength or above in a stack to take over the city.
Turn #3: 980 AD
I move horses next to Carthage while at the same time whipping longbowmen to defend vs. Mao in the north. I promote my wounded horses through the combat line so that they can heal faster. Also, I get a Great General, which will give me a super-medic horse.
Turn #4: 1000 AD
Time to capture Carthage! I lose 4 military units.
I do end up getting 3 wonders, but 1 is useless now (The Oracle), 1 is virtually useless (The Statue of Zeus) and 1 is marginally useful (The Colossus).
Here's a broad view of the empire. I had to remind myself to keep Yasodharapura on military builds only.
Turn #5: 1010 AD
I move more longbowmen and heavy horsemen to Minoan, my northern city. Mao's outdated stack moves one by one towards Minoan. A bit further south, my horses are healing in Carthage, and it will take very few turns thanks to a Medic III Great General who also has the Morale promotion to give it 3 movement points. After this turn, Mao decides to use 2 military units (both elephants, I think) to attack my 10+ units stacked at Minoan. He loses both, of course. I'm not sure what he was thinking there.
Turn #6: 1020 AD
I decide to move a longbowmen on a jungled hill several tiles east of Minoan next to Mao's approaching stack so that it can kill a few of the units. In fact, Mao (who needed 3 units to kill my longbow) actually moved his whole stack on top of that same jungled hill. Looks like I bought myself a few more turns thanks to AI stupidity.
Also, Hannibal is already willing to capitulate, but I refuse.
Turn #7: 1030 AD
By now, I have all espionage points on Mao, since I have enough points to see what Hannibal is producing in his cities.
Turn #8: 1040 AD
Hannibal vassals to Mao? Oh well, this will hinder my plans, but I was already at war with both of them anyway.
I decide to exterminate Mao's pathetically-outdated stack next to Minoan. Mao loses all 13 soldiers. After this turn, Mao attacked Minoan with a stack of 7 soldiers from the west, but ends up losing them all. I experience zero casualties.
Turn #9: 1050 AD
I capture the Carthage city of Keroukane, with the help of accuracy catapults. I also move some military next to Hangzhou, as the following screenshot shows.
Turn #10: 1060 AD
For the first time in this game, I am tops in score.
I move 8 heavy horsemen south to Leptis, one of only 2 Carthage cities left on the mainland. I capture Hangzhou, but lose 3 soldiers. Furthermore, I capture Shadong, which was a weakly-defended city north of Minoan. It's really nice to have 2-move horses that can attack the city right after leaving Minoan.
Turn #11: 1070 AD
Unfortunately, Mao re-captures Hangzhou and fortifies it with about 10 outdated units. I'll need to wait a while before attempting a counter-attack.
The good news is that I capture Leptis, losing no soldiers. Hannibal is down to his last legs. I am surprised that he hasn't de-vassalized from Mao since clearly Mao hasn't done enough to help him.
Turn #12: 1080 AD
With deft management of horse movement points, I am able to attack Utica this turn. I lose one horse, but otherwise, things go well and I capture the city. What will the shrine give me ...
44 gold! Yes! I now have 2 shrines that give me a combined 59 gold per turn.
Turn #13: 1090 AD
Hannibal does nothing of notice other than move his caravels around my cities. Can caravels pillage seafood improvements? I wasn't sure, but Hannibal never bothered my seafood, so I don't think they can.
Turn #14: 1100 AD
Ragnar launches a Golden Age. Why not wait until your war is over, pal?
Also, Monteuma has a 28-unit stack next to a Russian city (he declared war on Catherine) but instead bombards the city. At least he still captures the city. The two made peace soon after.
Turn #15: 1110 AD
I load horses onto 2 whipped galleys to capture Hannibal's island cities.
Turn #16: 1120 AD
I unload those 4 horsemen next to Sicca (a southern Carthaginian city), which is weakly defended. Easy pickings.
Turn #17: 1130 AD
Shuffle around units ... etc ....
Turn #18: 1140 AD
With Utica out of revolt, I finally generate positive gold income per turn for the first time in at least 10 turns. The gold from capturing cities kept my economy going. I capture Sicca, which leaves Hannibal down to 1 city.
Turn #19: 1150 AD
I negotiate peace with Mehmed II despite not killing one unit of his! Also, silly Mao builds the Spiral Minaret.
Turn #20: 1160 AD
I capture Thaenae ... but Hannibal still has one more city on the islands to the west. Ugh...
Turn #21: 1170 AD
I re-capture Hangzhou, and plan to fortify it with considerably more defenders than before.
I accept peace. Thankfully, I got Banking, which meant that I only had to research Economics to unlock the Free Market civic.
Why did I accept peace?
Hannibal still hasn't de-vassalized from Mao
Mao had the Banking technology, which I really needed
I don't have many city defenders left
I need to get some economy going again
I switched research to Economics, which I finished by the end of this round.
I think that it's time to get the 3 "Free" civics set up - Free Speech (more culture), Free Market (more commerce), and Free Religion (for more research, and theocracy isn't needed as much).
Here is what remains of China, and 1-city-Carthage. I think I'll attack with 2 stacks.
Technology (bad) & Demographics (okay)
The map at 1200 AD.
Goals for the next round:
1. Finish off Mao with 2 well-positioned stacks
2. Research Steel and hopefully trade
3. Switch to Free Speech and Free Market civics
4. Beeline to ... what technology? I don't think Democracy would work here with so few cottages.
5. Try not to get too far behind technologically
Any ideas on what to do with a
1. Great Artist
2. Great Engineer
3. Great Merchant
4. Great Scientist
I will have a lot of work ahead of me. Gilgamesh is going to be a monster soon, and he is the #1 threat to win the game.
That sucks. Somethimes you're the pigeon, sometimes you're the statue.
I somehow hope he will go for someone else!
^I somehow think that's not going to happen .
But Mehmed II is rank 2 in power, second only to Ragnar. I'm tenth, what can I do?
I'd like to answer the numerical math question.
I have put it in spoiler tags.
My answer is any multiple of 12 (3*4) without the multiples of 60 (5*12) that are less than 2002.
2002 divided by 12 is 166 5/6
2002 divided by 60 is 33 11/30
I can truncate the fractions and end up with 166-33 is 133.
Complete list in the next spoiler
[12, 24, 36, 48, 72, 84, 96, 108, 132, 144, 156, 168, 192, 204, 216, 228, 252, 264, 276, 288, 312, 324, 336, 348, 372, 384, 396, 408, 432, 444, 456, 468, 492, 504, 516, 528, 552, 564, 576, 588, 612, 624, 636, 648, 672, 684, 696, 708, 732, 744, 756, 768, 792, 804, 816, 828, 852, 864, 876, 888, 912, 924, 936, 948, 972, 984, 996, 1008, 1032, 1044, 1056, 1068, 1092, 1104, 1116, 1128, 1152, 1164, 1176,
1188, 1212, 1224, 1236, 1248, 1272, 1284, 1296, 1308, 1332, 1344, 1356, 1368, 1392, 1404, 1416, 1428, 1452, 1464, 1476, 1488, 1512, 1524, 1536, 1548, 1572, 1584, 1596, 1608, 1632, 1644, 1656, 1668, 1692, 1704, 1716, 1728, 1752, 1764, 1776,
1788, 1812, 1824, 1836, 1848, 1872, 1884, 1896, 1908, 1932, 1944, 1956, 1968, 1992]
Can you bribe him off to at least delay the DOW? How's the diplomacy situation look? A nice stack of flanking curris should be able to chew up Mehmet's sod if you can buy ten turns to assemble it.
Or bribe Ragnar to DOW the Ottomans? Maybe if you DOW them first
Or even Ragnar closing borders would do the job - would be a cheaper bribe.
I was reacting to Vranasm's post, i think he won't go somewhere else. Not much you can do now, probably lose a few cities and see if you can find it somewhere within yourself to veer about and get horrible revenge on him later . KID R has some suggestions which might be useful, can't tell wtihout looking at the save.
Good job! And welcome to the forums!
You saw the problem in what I think is the most efficient way.
Also, to everyone else who commented - look carefully at the screenshots I have. I think you're ... missing something.
I'll update the second part of the round within the next hour.
Kid R, for some reason, Ragnar is friendly towards Mehmed II.
hmm but Ragnar has vassal (Cyrus) is there possibility for fake friendly the way it happens to human?
I don't what you mean with carefully looking at SS, I don't see anything unusual... mehmed red fist...can mean "anything"
Rags is at friendly, and there's a solid Jewish bloc, while Mehmet is Budhist. That should count for something. Outside of that, I don't see what I'm missing, either.
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