Do Open Marriages Work?

Ah, ah, ah, we know someone didn't read the article!

Well, I tried. But this guy's writing style had me wanting to vomit after the first paragraph so I didn't finish.\

EDIT: I did scroll down to the comment section though and someone there did raise a valid point: It seems men in open marriages are taking a greater risk by doing so than a woman. I mean, what happens if she gets pregnant from one of her other partners and doesn't want to abort it or put it up for adoption? Is the husband expected to raise that child as if it were his own? If yes, then how is that fair to him at all? Would you consider him the jerk if he decided to leave her if she got pregnant by another man and refused to abort it or put it up for adoption?
 
The whole "it is someone else's kid" angle really doesn't phase me much. I remember when cloning first looked like it would be viable some people I knew thought how cool it would be to have an offspring that was literally "you" in terms of DNA as if that would make it easier to relate. Since any male humans are already something like 99.98% clones of me anyway, I just don't see where these final similarities are that important. Large humans raising small humans should just be what large humans do, it doesn't have to involve picking and choosing based on some conception event.
 
The whole "it is someone else's kid" angle really doesn't phase me much. I remember when cloning first looked like it would be viable some people I knew thought how cool it would be to have an offspring that was literally "you" in terms of DNA as if that would make it easier to relate. Since any male humans are already something like 99.98% clones of me anyway, I just don't see where these final similarities are that important. Large humans raising small humans should just be what large humans do, it doesn't have to involve picking and choosing based on some conception event.

Ah, but it does have to involve picking and choosing based on a conception event when society attaches financial responsibility to child raising. I mean, why should some dude out there get to make kids willy-nilly and not have to bear the financial responsibility that comes with having a kid?

That's where my opposition to raising someone else's kid comes from. Basically, I'm not going to finance your sexual escapades.
 
I just don't see small humans as "someone's sexual escapade" I guess. Mostly I see them as my best possible access for contributing to the future.
 
I just don't see small humans as "someone's sexual escapade" I guess. Mostly I see them as my best possible access for contributing to the future.

Of course they are not the sexual escapade, they are the result of the sexual escapade. Now I know my view isn't very popular nowadays, but I actually have this crazy notion that people should have to deal with the results of their actions instead of being able to shove their responsibilities off on someone else so they can go on living a care-free life.
 
What does that have to do with the small humans? What responsibilities do you think they should bear? Sounds very heavy on "sins of the fathers" to me.
 
What does that have to do with the small humans? What responsibilities do you think they should bear? Sounds very heavy on "sins of the fathers" to me.

It's not the small humans that have to bear any responsibility, it's those that create them that do. If I have an open marriage, and you end up having sex with my wife because of it, and she gets pregnant; you better believe I will do everything in my power to make sure it is you that raises that kid, not me.
 
Do you think I would do a better job of it?

I don't know, because I do not have intimate knowledge of any aspects of your life that may have positive or negative effects on your parenting ability.

But if you feel you would not make a good parent, then perhaps you should cease having sexual relations with women that can get pregnant. If you do not want to cease having sex with women that are able to get pregnant, then I don't find it unreasonable to expect you to raise any children that may result from those sexual encounters, regardless of your ability to parent.
 
The point was that once again this has nothing to do with the resulting small human. Read through what you have written here and see if it doesn't strike as "Commodore relates to the small humans as burdensome little creatures best done without."

Just for the record, I can't get anyone pregnant so this is a purely hypothetical discussion.
 
It's not the small humans that have to bear any responsibility, it's those that create them that do. If I have an open marriage, and you end up having sex with my wife because of it, and she gets pregnant; you better believe I will do everything in my power to make sure it is you that raises that kid, not me.

IF you have an open marriage then you better be able to carry responsibility for that too.
 
Id think the best way for a couple to relieve any sexual tensions / fantasies like this would be to hire a paid 'sex worker' (prostitute).
 
...what happens if she gets pregnant from one of her other partners and doesn't want to abort it or put it up for adoption? Is the husband expected to raise that child as if it were his own? If yes, then how is that fair to him at all? Would you consider him the jerk if he decided to leave her if she got pregnant by another man and refused to abort it or put it up for adoption?
It would be reasonable to use any and every legal means available to force the biological father to pay child support for the kid for however many years that's legally mandated where you live, and whatever college/university funding may be legally mandated.

But if the biological father is genuinely not someone suitable to raise a child, why punish the kid who, after all, didn't ask to be created?

If the biological father can't be located or refuses to pay up, then of course you have the option of divorce, but don't be surprised if the courts make you pay for the kid anyway.
 
Well, I tried. But this guy's writing style had me wanting to vomit after the first paragraph so I didn't finish.\

EDIT: I did scroll down to the comment section though and someone there did raise a valid point: It seems men in open marriages are taking a greater risk by doing so than a woman. I mean, what happens if she gets pregnant from one of her other partners and doesn't want to abort it or put it up for adoption? Is the husband expected to raise that child as if it were his own? If yes, then how is that fair to him at all? Would you consider him the jerk if he decided to leave her if she got pregnant by another man and refused to abort it or put it up for adoption?

I apologize if my comment caused you to reread any of this article. Although it raises an interesting question as to how the institution of marriage negatively affects women in their sexual prime more than men in their sexual prime, that point was occluded by terrible writing.

I don't know, because I do not have intimate knowledge of any aspects of your life that may have positive or negative effects on your parenting ability.

But if you feel you would not make a good parent, then perhaps you should cease having sexual relations with women that can get pregnant. If you do not want to cease having sex with women that are able to get pregnant, then I don't find it unreasonable to expect you to raise any children that may result from those sexual encounters, regardless of your ability to parent.

As to responsibility for a child born from a tryst, assuredly the husband and wife will bear the lion's share of the responsibility. As it should be. Both the husband and wife agreed that she can mess around w/ other men. If the husband was not prepared to raise a child born of another man then he shouldn't have agreed to the arrangement.

This isn't to say that the biological father shouldn't be, in some way, responsible, but it is hardly an unfairness, as you categorize it, for the husband to be responsible for the consequences of his agreement w/ his wife.
 
Well, I tried.

You didn't miss much. "I didn't want my wife sleeping with other men but then I drank a lot of red wine and now we talk about having sex with other people when we are in bed together and our relationship has never been better!"

He sleeps with others too. To each their own, if it works for him, cool, like others said. Strict fidelity is hard and probably not a good idea for a lot of couples. Dan Savage, who everyone needs to read once in their lives, makes the observation that you probably know more "monogamish" people than you think you do--because often "consensual infidelity" is kept secret as it still remains sort of a taboo. (Link goes to article about him, not by him, but it's a good summary.) Our perception is skewed by only hearing about the ones that go wrong, i.e. my first comment in this thread! :blush:

But the main issue I have with this author's particular thesis--as opposed to the idea of open relationships in general--is he equates relinquishing control over his wife's sex life as giving up a patriarchal element of his male identity, i.e. possession of the female, and thus this is a progressive "feminist" thing to do. I think it's more about just willing to explore things in order to maintain a healthy relationship with your partner because you love them, rather than adhering to some upright philosophical/political movement.

I mean I see how that is an angle, you could say in the age of birth control it is an antiquated concept to want to make sure you and your partner are only raising your genetic offspring--so why focus on monogamy other than showing the world you have asserted effective control over your woman. But are you anti-feminist if your wife wants to do it, and for whatever reason you are uncomfortable with the idea? I don't think so. (I mean do only men have this strange compulsion to desire a truly monogamous partner, and every woman secretly yearns to be let off the leash?? I think this goes both ways.) I think the label greatly simplifies all the various motivations in a relationship and over generalizes things to the point of diminishing thinking about relationship dynamics to something too binary.

I.e., if you apply this label and define this relationship choice as feminism, and if you consider feminism something positive to strive for (I do, personally) then there is an objective "right" answer to this question in every relationship: when your wife wants an open relationship, you say "yes." I'm not sure that's true. I would think it's more just a question of respecting your partner and wanting to grow with them--or not. I think if one partner wants to sleep with other people and the other is uncomfortable with the idea, someone in that dynamic needs to give; either the partner who wants to step out needs to respect and understand their partner's wishes, or the partner who is uncomfortable needs to give it a shot and see if their discomfort is a mirage. Ideally, both parties give and take something. Sacrifice, trying new things, expanding your comfort zone, these are all elements of a healthy relationship. I think tying this up in feminism is categorizing the issue in a tiny space, when this is a much broader thing, to me at least.
 
In case it was missed in passing, I cannot get anyone pregnant so if you are looking for someone to service your wife risk free I am your guy. :cool:
 
The point was that once again this has nothing to do with the resulting small human. Read through what you have written here and see if it doesn't strike as "Commodore relates to the small humans as burdensome little creatures best done without."

Just for the record, I can't get anyone pregnant so this is a purely hypothetical discussion.

It doesn't strike as that at all. At least not to those who believe people are accountable for their actions. It strikes as structuring society in such a way that forces people to accept and deal with the consequences of their actions with absolutely no recourse to avoid those consequences. I am still waiting to hear how you think it is perfectly okay for someone to father a child and then shove the responsibility of raising that child off on someone else. At the very least, if I am forced to raise your child, I should be allowed to sue for all the costs associated with raising a child. And I'm not just talking about child support either, I'm talking about things like college tuition, money to buy them their first car, tuition for grade school if I decide to send them to private school instead of public school, etc. Basically, if I have to raise someone else's kid, that someone else should be legally forced to pay for every decision I make for that child.

I also do not find children that I create to be burdensome at all. The key phrase of course, being "that I create." I have a daughter and I wouldn't give her up for anything. I do however, find it outrageous that someone feels they should reserve the right to not have to take responsibility for what they create.

I guess I'm just the crazy one though for believing that if you aren't willing to have children, then you shouldn't legally be allowed to have sex. EDIT: Unless, of course, you are willing to get snipped (men) or have your tubes tied (women).
 
You didn't miss much. "I didn't want my wife sleeping with other men but then I drank a lot of red wine and now we talk about having sex with other people when we are in bed together and our relationship has never been better!"

He sleeps with others too. To each their own, if it works for him, cool, like others said. Strict fidelity is hard and probably not a good idea for a lot of couples. Dan Savage, who everyone needs to read once in their lives, makes the observation that you probably know more "monogamish" people than you think you do--because often "consensual infidelity" is kept secret as it still remains sort of a taboo. (Link goes to article about him, not by him, but it's a good summary.) Our perception is skewed by only hearing about the ones that go wrong, i.e. my first comment in this thread! :blush:

But the main issue I have with this author's particular thesis--as opposed to the idea of open relationships in general--is he equates relinquishing control over his wife's sex life as giving up a patriarchal element of his male identity, i.e. possession of the female, and thus this is a progressive "feminist" thing to do. I think it's more about just willing to explore things in order to maintain a healthy relationship with your partner because you love them, rather than adhering to some upright philosophical/political movement.

I mean I see how that is an angle, you could say in the age of birth control it is an antiquated concept to want to make sure you and your partner are only raising your genetic offspring--so why focus on monogamy other than showing the world you have asserted effective control over your woman. But are you anti-feminist if your wife wants to do it, and for whatever reason you are uncomfortable with the idea? I don't think so. (I mean do only men have this strange compulsion to desire a truly monogamous partner, and every woman secretly yearns to be let off the leash?? I think this goes both ways.) I think the label greatly simplifies all the various motivations in a relationship and over generalizes things to the point of diminishing thinking about relationship dynamics to something too binary.

I.e., if you apply this label and define this relationship choice as feminism, and if you consider feminism something positive to strive for (I do, personally) then there is an objective "right" answer to this question in every relationship: when your wife wants an open relationship, you say "yes." I'm not sure that's true. I would think it's more just a question of respecting your partner and wanting to grow with them--or not. I think if one partner wants to sleep with other people and the other is uncomfortable with the idea, someone in that dynamic needs to give; either the partner who wants to step out needs to respect and understand their partner's wishes, or the partner who is uncomfortable needs to give it a shot and see if their discomfort is a mirage. Ideally, both parties give and take something. Sacrifice, trying new things, expanding your comfort zone, these are all elements of a healthy relationship. I think tying this up in feminism is categorizing the issue in a tiny space, when this is a much broader thing, to me at least.

I don't disagree particularly with anything you say here. As I said, my wife and I had an open marriage for about a year before she wanted to call it off and go back to being monogamous.

Devil's advocate mode: If a person does not want to be in a monogamous relationship, then wouldn't it be easier if they avoid marriage altogether? I mean, what exactly is the motivation to get married for someone who does not want to be monogamous?
 
I apologize if my comment caused you to reread any of this article. Although it raises an interesting question as to how the institution of marriage negatively affects women in their sexual prime more than men in their sexual prime, that point was occluded by terrible writing.

Yeah this was just something I did not find to be that compelling of a question, or at least I don't see how the author gets to the conclusion he seems to imply. He says flat out, women should choose the open relationship option and not men. I understand what's underpinning his idea, but I don't see that as healthy relationship advice really.

A young man and a young women getting married are arguably both "in their prime;" while women in general face unfair judgment on their sex lives as opposed to men (e.g. women are "sluts" while men are revered for their accomplishments, as the author points out) I don't see how a man relinquishing control over monogamy levels the unfair sexual playing field. The woman is still going to be viewed more negatively than the man in that relationship by many outside observers--witness some of the posts in this very thread. Further I think saying it's always the man that needs to relinquish control is over generalizing about women, i.e. no woman actually truly values monogamy on the part of her husband. If my wife wanted an open relationship, I like to think I would consider it because I love her and value our marriage, as opposed to thinking "for feminism!" and then patting myself on the back. But I also like to think that if I said no, she loves and respects me enough that she would be OK with that too.
 
Yeah this was just something I did not find to be that compelling of a question, or at least I don't see how the author gets to the conclusion he seems to imply. He says flat out, women should choose the open relationship option and not men. I understand what's underpinning his idea, but I don't see that as healthy relationship advice really.

The logic behind the whole article was pretty questionable. The author talks about how marrying his wife early caused her to miss out on sexual exploration, and that this is unfair to her. Setting aside the well-reasoned discussion you provided about how to provide sexual exploration within a relationship, the author misses that relationships are, fundamentally, about compromise. In a relationship we compromise our personal financial, social, and other interests in favor of the relationship all the time. The author doesn't explore why sexual interests should not be compromised; he just assumes they shouldn't be. His thought process seems to be, "by agreeing to this open relationship, I can allow my wife to experience more pleasure." The pursuit of immediate pleasure isn't a sustainable, mature goal.
 
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