Do we live in a rape culture?

[civver_764]

This is a little spin off from a discussion in the Trump thread. So the idea that we live in a "rape culture" seems to be pretty popular lately, and I was wondering what you all thought about this.

I pulled this definition from Women Against Violence Against Women:

a complex set of beliefs that encourage male sexual aggression and supports violence against women. It is a society where violence is seen as sexy and sexuality as violent. In a rape culture, women perceive a continuum of threatened violence that ranges from sexual remarks to sexual touching to rape itself. A rape culture condones physical and emotional terrorism against women as the norm . . . In a rape culture both men and women assume that sexual violence is a fact of life, inevitable . . . However . . . much of what we accept as inevitable is in fact the expression of values and attitudes that can change.

I think there is no "rape culture" for the following reasons:

1. Rape is illegal. If our culture condones rape why do our laws prohibit it?
2. Nobody in their right mind would want to be considered a rapist. If rape was seen as "sexy" wouldn't people brag about being rapists?
3. Rape victims are afforded many special protections that victims of other crimes are not afforded (look up rape shield laws). This seems to suggest that our culture views rape as especially bad, not as something it condones.

What do you guys think? Do you have any friends or family that think it's cool to rape people? Do you personally support rape?

 

[Perfection]

Spoiler :

Tell me that's not rape culture.

Moderator Action: Please spoiler NSFW content. - Vincour

 

[Ajidica]

. Nobody in their right mind would want to be considered a rapist. If rape was seen as "sexy" wouldn't people brag about being rapists?

FWIW people don't brag about being a rapist, but rather actions that would generally constitute sexual assault. I had a roommate in college whose "great womanizing skills" consisted entirely of getting stupid freshmen girls to go to parties with him, he could handle is alcohol well enough and they were stupid enough to keep drinking the vodka and cranberry drinks he was pouring for them. They would both get drunk -her extensively more than him- and then have sex.

 

[civver_764]

FWIW people don't brag about being a rapist, but rather actions that would generally constitute sexual assault. I had a roommate in college whose "great womanizing skills" consisted entirely of getting stupid freshmen girls to go to parties with him, he could handle is alcohol well enough and they were stupid enough to keep drinking the vodka and cranberry drinks he was pouring for them. They would both get drunk -her extensively more than him- and then have sex.

If she consented to the sex then how is that rape?

 

[Ajidica]

If she consented to the sex then how is that rape?

I struggle to see how she could have consented when the girls were literally a sip of communion wine away from being the sort of drunk you see passing out in toilets.

 

[Commodore]

Spoiler :

Tell me that's not rape culture.

Yes. One sign is absolutely representative of an entire society. Come on Perf, you're better than that.

 

[Narz]

I don't think anyone sees violence as sexy, but those who are sexy committing violence are perhaps sexier (action heros and heroins). That makes sense. If a man or woman will commit violence on your behalf they are a better mate.

I dislike "rape culture" as a construct because it minimizes rape. It's like blaming violent video games & movies for real life violence. Rape is a horrific crime deserving maximum punishment. Just as murder or attempted murder is. When you blame "culture" you minimize the act & diffuse the responsibility.

I do think our justice system is too soft of sex crimes (and ridiculously 'tough' on victimless crimes like drug use).

As a culture being called a rapist is a pretty horrific thing, about the worst thing that you can be called as a man. There have been plenty of 'rape cultures' thruout history. I'm sure some countries still consider rape of your wife legally ok. The US is not one of them.

Vague nonsense like 'rape culture' or 'toxic masculinity' is pure minimization of actual crimes & actual victims.

 

[civver_764]

I struggle to see how she could have consented when the girls were literally a sip of communion wine away from being the sort of drunk you see passing out in toilets.

So he would really brag to you about having sex with girls that are about to pass out?

 

[Commodore]

I do think our justice system is too soft of sex crimes

How so? Sex offenders pretty much go through life-long humiliation (registered sex offender list and having to notify neighbors when they move in) and are condemned to a life of poverty when released from prison. Or are you saying we should never let them out of prison in the first place?

 

[Perfection]

Yes. One sign is absolutely representative of an entire society. Come on Perf, you're better than that.

Do you disagree with the fact that many Americans are rather indifferent to prison rape?

 

[civver_764]

How so? Sex offenders pretty much go through life-long humiliation (registered sex offender list and having to notify neighbors when they move in) and are condemned to a life of poverty when released from prison. Or are you saying we should never let them out of prison in the first place?

Not to mention alleged rape victims are given extra protections in court.

 

[Ajidica]

So he would really brag to you about having sex with girls that are about to pass out?

Sort of. He would brag about his "totes epic chick skills", and when I would ask him for advice -because Sophomore Ajidica was desperate to pick up the ladies- he basically said I should get stupid freshmen drunk and have sex with them.
Guy was a weirdo.

 

[Narz]

How so? Sex offenders pretty much go through life-long humiliation (registered sex offender list and having to notify neighbors when they move in) and are condemned to a life of poverty when released from prison. Or are you saying we should never let them out of prison in the first place?

They shouldn't be let out after just a few years. You have small time drug dealers in prison for decades and a rapist or child molester gets to get out in less than 10? That's sick.

 

[Ajidica]

They shouldn't be let out after just a few years. You have small time drug dealers in prison for decades and a rapist or child molester gets to get out in less than 10? That's sick.

Are you saying people with drug possession charges should be let out sooner, or people on the sex offenders list should be imprisoned longer?

 

[Commodore]

Do you disagree with the fact that many Americans are rather indifferent to prison rape?

Indifference to the fate of criminals does not indicate a "rape culture". Nobody really cares about anything that goes on behind bars, be it murder, rape, assault, or drugs. It doesn't mean we love or support those things, it just means we don't care about the well-being of criminals. Not saying that's a good thing, just saying that it doesn't mean we have a "rape culture".

They shouldn't be let out after just a few years. You have small time drug dealers in prison for decades and a rapist or child molester gets to get out in less than 10? That's sick.

Agreed.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

This is a little spin off from a discussion in the Trump thread. So the idea that we live in a "rape culture" seems to be pretty popular lately, and I was wondering what you all thought about this.

I pulled this definition from Women Against Violence Against Women:



I think there is no "rape culture" for the following reasons:

1. Rape is illegal. If our culture condones rape why do our laws prohibit it?

North American cultures condone many things that are illegal.

2. Nobody in their right mind would want to be considered a rapist. If rape was seen as "sexy" wouldn't people brag about being rapists?

Donald Trump. We don't know if he actually raped anyone, but he sure as hell bragged about committing sexual assault. That's illegal, but hey - look who winked and nodded at it and voted him in as your president?

If she consented to the sex then how is that rape?

You are still seriously asking this?

IMPAIRED JUDGMENT. She was not fully able to make sound decisions. Some men take it even further and slip a "date rape" drug into the women's drinks.

 

[civver_764]

If a guy gets really drunk and has sex with a girl and then regrets it the next day did she rape him?

Donald Trump was not bragging about "sexual assault", he was just BSing with his friends about the things girls would consent to him doing.

 

[Ajidica]

If a guy gets really drunk and has sex with a girl and then regrets it the next day did she rape him?

When both people are in varying states of drunkenness I'm leery about calling it rape; however, the fact he set off to get the himself and the girl drunk to have sex suggests to me it should at least be considered sexual assault in the court of public opinion as he intended to take advantage of diminished capacity at a later point in time.

 

[civver_764]

But she chose to get drunk with him, he didn't force the alcohol down her throat, and then she presumably welcomed his sexual advances. You think she didn't know that drinking with him would make her more likely to want to have sex with him? I can't really consider it assault unless he forced her into something.

 

[Narz]

Are you saying people with drug possession charges should be let out sooner, or people on the sex offenders list should be imprisoned longer?

I believe that most illegal drugs shouldn't be illegal at all (obviously still illegal under certain circumstances like driving). This will free up space for actual criminals (i.e. : people who've done immoral acts)