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[RD] Do 'woke' films go broke? (from LGBTQ news)

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I'm seeing leftists use it.

There's been quite a few woke movie flops. They're not appealing to leftists either.

Woke being used in mainstream/liberal publications here not just the right type ones.
i've never seen it used by leftists in print media, in academia, or in conversation irl (i'm in the belly of the beast of supposedly "woke" people, academia, lgbt & minority circles, and the art world). or rather, when it's used by academia, it's with a list of asterisks (usually in a title where it clearly delineates what the paper is talked about, and how "woke" is mostly used, as i noted). online conversation i only see it scarcely in stuff like tiktoks, but it's dwarfed by referring to actual talking points, so seems like pockets. on the other hand, the right uses it all the time, for the purposes i outlined.

this reply of yours does further confuse me, previously it was a "you know it when you see it," "doesn't actually mean anything," and now it's explicit left talk?

regardless, you don't agree it's been coopted as an exonym, sure. if you can give me the benefit of the doubt for a minute and say for the sake of argument (aaaaa) that i'm right about its usage. you apparently don't believe my outlining of the usage is the case, but if i were right about its usage, would you understand why i think using it is a problem?
 
lmao Sorry to Bother You was made by a literal communist. And, by his own admission, was an explicitly didactic piece of media designed to engender class consciousness. Just further evidence that woke simply means “black or queer media that I didn’t like.”
 
But if you are incited to commit violence in the name of justice are you not canceling someone out? Do justice yes, but not with violence. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Until we can resolve problems peaceably no one is going to respond kindly no matter how benign or just the narrative is if it is forcibly imposed under penalty of violence, cancellation, or worse...death.
What violence?
 
lmao Sorry to Bother You was made by a literal communist.
I'm supposed to know the biography of every mofo who's movies I watch & if I don't have the same political views I can't enjoy the movie?
And, by his own admission, was an explicitly didactic piece of media designed to engender class consciousness.
Duh
 
Narz, how can you say you don't want representation in a movie but then say you don't get mermaids because they don't represent the human form on the lower half?
 
Narz, how can you say you don't want representation in a movie but then say you don't get mermaids because they don't represent the human form on the lower half?
I can still relate to Ariel cuz she's basically human, just saying I don't get why girls would want to be without their junk
 
you're complaining about a lack of cis women's genitals in a kid's movie

Well, more accurately, a cis girl's genitals. Ariel is 16. But I'm sure Narz will be happy to hear she gets a human lower half part-way through the film and keeps that half at the end of the film, presumably for the benefit of the prince she fell in love with.
 
I don't know why you're so hung up on the genitals (or lack there of) of a 16 year old character and talking about benefiting from them, It's a bit weird dude
 
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I can still relate to Ariel cuz she's basically human, just saying I don't get why girls would want to be without their junk
um. Not exactly the same thing but....
 
Presumably for her own benefit as well

Okay, there's two ways to take this, one is that Ariel decided that being a human, and all that entailed, fit who she was better than being a half-fish and she did whatever she had to to change her body to fit her self-image, in the end getting the body she wanted, which, honestly, is kind of a brilliant trans allegory, even if it probably wasn't intended as such, and yeah, I guess having all the "normal" human body parts would be to her benefit if she sees herself as a human.

The other way of taking this is, like others are saying, you're just really weirdly obsessed with whether a fictional teenager in a kids' movie about magic fish people has a vagina or not.
 
you're just really weirdly obsessed
I said in passing that I find mermaid obsessions in general are weird, y'all the ones getting deep into analysis... :hmm: If you want to discuss further maybe take it to random thoughts or something
 
Random Thoughts is definitely  not the place for long, esoteric conversations about a single topic.
 
It's a good way to remake rather than the creativity necessary to make a new story.

I never got the whole mermaid thing, who wants a yucky fish tail instead of legs and genitals
This might be a deranged glimpse into the mind cathedral, but you've gotta admit it's top form poasting.
 
This might be a deranged glimpse into the mind cathedral, but you've gotta admit it's top form poasting.

Probably over analyzing things. Disney ripped off a Danish fairy tale based off horny sailors at sea thinking "that dolphin she's kinda cute.....".
 
My experience is that everyone is insane to varying degrees, there is no sanity or insanity, just 1,000 faces of madness.
Yes, is stole that from the Battle Angel Alita manga.
 
I agree that diversity in shows/movies in general is a good thing to strive for, but there are places where it's minor but just feels forced, which is like "slight eye roll" - contributes nothing to the story, doesn't detract from it, but was clearly included just to check a diversity box. But then there are extreme cases where it feels like diversity is more important than telling a good story. It can often hinder telling a good story even. When inclusion takes precedence over a good plot, interesting characters, realistic dialogue, story consistency (meaning plot holes), world-building, lore, history, stuff like that, it's just kinda... obvious. It stands out. And those types of shows/movies tend to flop hard, because it's obvious even to most progressives that it's simply pandering & checking boxes.

Someone alluded to Velma up above. It's a great example. It's been described as "the show so woke it united the left & right in hatred of it". It was such obvious pandering that everyone on both sides hated it. Yes, it's getting a 2nd season, but I don't think it's from hate-watching - the viewership #'s are dismal. It's just that sometimes terrible shows get renewed.

Another indicator I've noticed is: if two characters engage in a fight, or an argument & you already know who is going to win based solely on their demographics, that's a case where people tend to tune out eventually regardless of political affiliation. Like, if there's a fight between a man & a woman & you already know going in the woman is going to win - only another woman can defeat her. Or if a black gay guy has a verbal dispute over what to do with white straight guy & you already know who is going to be correct down the line. Once or twice isn't what I'm talking about, but if it's always the case, that makes for poor story-telling (this tends to happen more in shows than films).

If the character who checks more diversity boxes always win in a fight or is always be proven right - that's pandering. And also boring. It eventually takes the suspense out of the story. If there's a murder mystery & there's one straight white male present & you kinda know from the start "he's the murderer" you don't really need to watch the rest of the movie. That's the type of stuff I think people object to. Eventually. After having seen it occur multiple times.

The other thing to look for is that if the lead is a woman, she will start the story as perfect - no flaws to overcome, no bad personality traits, no character arc, because she has nowhere to grow as a character. She just starts off as Day 1 Awesome Bad-Ass (or Day 1.5). Flawed characters are relatable, regardless of gender (or race or sexual orientation). People who overcome hardships, who aren't immediately liked by everyone they meet, who aren't always right & don't always win, who fail sometimes & have to rely on, even be rescued/helped by their compatriots, but triumph in the end - that's relatable, & aspirational. But when the female main character just starts at Level 20, that's not relatable (for not just men but I think women viewers as well). People want to their heroes to grow & overcome their flaws. A "hero" who starts out & ends up awesome & better than everyone is boring as a protagonist.

These are not universal of course. Just indications that a film/show might be perceived as "woke". I hate even using the term, but it's literally in the title of the thread, so that's my take on it what it describes when it's used pejoratively towards shows/movies. It's probably trivial to find individual counter-examples to my descriptions, but that's pointless; just as pointless as it would for me to list individual examples of it happening (other than the humorous example of Velma I suppose), which is why I didn't.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject of this stupid term.
 
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