[RD] Do 'woke' films go broke? (from LGBTQ news)

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Kyrikos names a point about the sequels being despised. Not to many people care about that trilogy or Rey while Ahsoka is generally beloved.

It is not just Rey, just look at top reviewed star wars episodes at IMBD and Ahsoka is the dominant character, "victory and death", last the clone wars episode seems to be the single highest PG-rated epsiode of all time on IBMD and Ahsoka is the main character in that episode. So Ahsoka a female alien that was inserted into the story in afterhand manage to become the character who sweeps the highest rated episodes.

 

[Zardnaar]

And Netflix isn't a serious channel. It would be a glaring flaw to treat a "documentary" on Netflix as authoritative.

Depends on the documentary. Plenty of documentaries on various streamers of varying quality.

Oh forgot that Women King movie. Vasically accused men of veing sexist for not seeing it (trigger 1) and then engaged in widespread historical revionism (trigger 2).

Dahomey was a slave state. Oops. Hell I found that out playing video games.

 

[Kyriakos]

Only good thing the reference to black Cleopatra brought to the thread, imo, is that it's arguably a more clear example of "woke" (tbf, it's about Jada, so not really involving much of a population group; backlash was the same from black viewers because it was just too stupid to like). Unlike (imo) Star Wars, which is at worst half-baked and less insane, let alone not aspiring to be a documentary.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Depends on the documentary. Plenty of documentaries on various streamers of varying quality.

Oh forgot that Women King movie. Vasically accused men of veing sexist for not seeing it (trigger 1) and then engaged in widespread historical revionism (trigger 2).

Dahomey was a slave state. Oops. Hell I found that out playing video games.

If I look at documentaries on Netflix they are a mixture of trash and stuff originally made for other channels.
Like Sky Netflix and the other streamers are increasingly having difficulty filling their schedules.
Interesting how more choice actually means less quality.

 

[Zardnaar]

If I look at documentaries on Netflix they are a mixture of trash and stuff originally made for other channels.
Like Sky Netflix and the other streamers are increasingly having difficulty filling their schedules.
Interesting how more choice actually means less quality.

Yeah they're decent for pop culture stuff. Enjoyed Arkeo on Amazon and Disney+ has National Geographic.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

She's using Sith Lord powers in RoS comparativle Luke gets pwned by said Sith Lord powers in RotJ. Vader baiks him out.

Luke with like 3-4 years of lightsaber experience get to beat Vader in RotJ and Vader is supposedly like the greatest lightsaber dualist of all time in Star Wars, although I guess Vader held back against Luke. Also both Anakin and Ahsoka get to do similar things, Rey thus don't seems special in that regard.

 

[Zardnaar]

Only good thing the reference to black Cleopatra brought to the thread, imo, is that it's arguably a more clear example of "woke" (tbf, it's about Jada, so not really involving much of a population group; backlash was the same from black viewers because it was just too stupid to like). Unlike (imo) Star Wars, which is at worst half-baked and less insane, let alone not aspiring to be a documentary.

Yeah its a prime example of to much salt. Pretty much everyone hated it.

Star Wars ST isn't that woke and its far from the biggest problem that trilogy has.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Obi Wan could not defeat Vader or even land a hit on him in Episode IV, yet Luke could land a hit on Vader in Episode V and defeat him in Epsiode VI with just a few years of training. Rey I don't think got to ever beat anybody as skilled as Vader, Dooku or Maul.

 

[Evie]

Ahsoka was massively loathed at first, near Jar-Jar grade, so there's that. She eventually became immensely popular, but she sure as hell didn't start that way - she didn't start turning perceptions around until season 2-3. Which is a lot more airtime than Rey got.

And while she had already become much more popular by then, her current popularity sure wasn't negatively impacted by getting written off the show with as much of a martyrdom as you can have and live. Nor by being recast in a more mentor-like roles in sequel series.

The imdb scores at this point have had a decade to evolve so absolutely do not reflect initial perception.

 

[Zardnaar]

Obi Wan could not defeat Vader or even land a hit on him in Episode IV, yet Luke could land a hit on Vader in Episode V and defeat him in Epsiode VI with just a few years of training. Rey I don't think got to ever beat anybody as skilled as Vader, Dooku or Maul.

Erm Palpatine?

Ahsoka was massively loathed at first, near Jar-Jar grade, so there's that. She eventually became immensely popular, but she sure as hell didn't start that way - she didn't start turning perceptions around until season 2-3.

And while she had already become much more popular by then, her current popularity sure wasn't negatively impacted by getting written off the show with as much of a martyrdom as you can have and live. Nor by being recast in a more mentor-like roles in sequel series.

The imdb scores at this point have had a decade to evolve so absolutely do not reflect initial perception.

No Ahsoka was crap early on wasn't because she was female. Anakin syndrome.

So there's hope for Rey

 

[Gori the Grey]

There does seem to be a definite trend of woke movies bombing.

Not all of them do but there's some definite trends of what bombs.

1. To preachy and hamfisted.

2. Boring cut out characters who are diverse but to perfect/powerful very little character development.

3. Gender or race swapping established character.

4. Not being faithful to the source material rewriting it to reflect progressive ideals.

5. They insert "woke" ideals into older IP eg 80s or 90s movies even if it makes very little sense to the story.

6. Rewriting history in period pieces.

7. Inserting diverse charact ahistorically in period pieces.

8. Somewhat genre dependent.

Those are some of the bigger trip wires where you'll notice movies bomb. Woke movies as small kinda niche movies that get a couple of hundred million are fine it's more tgey will struggle with blockbuster budgets.

That's the trend we are seeing.

Would you be game for the following project?

For each Hollywood release for the next year (from Aug 1 2023-July 31 2024, let's say) before the movie comes out, you identify which of two categories it falls into: woke or not-woke. We will then track the earnings vs budget of movies in each category. You can read as much pre-publicity about each movie as you like, watch the trailer, read the director's vision for the movie, watch interviews with the actors, etc. But you have to declare it woke or not-woke before it starts its run. No seeing how it does opening weekend before you weigh in.

If you're agreeable, I'll manage the project; I'll feed you the movies as their release dates are announced. Generally, I think that gives you a month or so to investigate the movie. So it's not on you to supply the comprehensive list; that's on me. And I'll give you a reminder you to register your verdict before the release date.

We'll do a scientific test of the proposition "go woke, go broke."

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Erm Palpatine?

I mean lightsaber duel.

Ahsoka was massively loathed at first, near Jar-Jar grade, so there's that. She eventually became immensely popular, but she sure as hell didn't start that way - she didn't start turning perceptions around until season 2-3. Which is a lot more airtime than Rey got.

And while she had already become much more popular by then, her current popularity sure wasn't negatively impacted by getting written off the show with as much of a martyrdom as you can have and live. Nor by being recast in a more mentor-like roles in sequel series.

The imdb scores at this point have had a decade to evolve so absolutely do not reflect initial perception.

Yes, but Anakin, Luke or Rey don't really have anything comparable to Siege of Mandalore which by ratings seems to be considered like the absolute masterpiece of Star Wars series/film.

 

[Zardnaar]

Would you be game for the following project?

For each Hollywood release for the next year (from Aug 1 2023-July 31 2024, let's say) before the movie comes out, you identify which of two categories it falls into: woke or not-woke. We will then track the earnings vs budget of movies in each category. You can read as much pre-publicity about each movie as you like, watch the trailer, read the director's vision for the movie, watch interviews with the actors, etc. But you have to declare it woke or not-woke before it starts its run. No seeing how it does opening weekend before you weigh in.

If you're agreeable, I'll manage the project; I'll feed you the movies as their release dates are announced. Generally, I think that gives you a month or so to investigate the movie. So it's not on you to supply the comprehensive list; that's on me. And I'll give you a reminder you to register your verdict before the release date.

We'll do a scientific test of the proposition "go woke, go broke."

It's more the big budget movies are flopping or under performing. Smaller niche filns can make money.

Last year or so of Disney releases have been brutal. They've been spending 200+ million on production costs plus marketing.

 

[Gori the Grey]

It's more the big budget movies are flopping or under performing. Smaller niche filns can make money.

But if we de all movies, your principle should still prevail. Major box-office flops will lose tons more money than niche films will make. So the sum-total of broke-wokes will far outweigh the niche-woke-money-makers.

Come on. Say you'll play along. For it to work, we need someone as decisive in sorting as you've shown yourself to be.

 

[Evie]

Oh, no question. Ahsoka *got there* in the end, and Siege of Mandalore is rightly praised. But these things - accepting new characters who are as important as the established ones - take time, and Siege of Mandalore also came out after Ahsoka had been in 48 episodes of the Clone Wars, and 9 of Rebels,

That's not far from 30 hours before Siege of Mandalore (with Siege, Mando and Book of Boba adding to the total since then) since then), which is a LOT of exposure to get people past their initial rejection of anyone new and enjoying her character.

Anakin's the only one of the three movie trilogy who had comparable airtime (also in Clone Wars), but there was no room to give him a dramatic conclusion to the Clone Wars (because Revenge of the Sith was written long before) the way they could for Ahsoka.

 

[Kaitzilla]

It's more the big budget movies are flopping or under performing. Smaller niche filns can make money.

Last year or so of Disney releases have been brutal. They've been spending 200+ million on production costs plus marketing.

Disney is remaking Snow White but ditching the Prince character.

No more 7 dwarves either.

EXCLUSIVE Snow White and the Seven... Politically-Correct Companions?

EXCLUSIVE: Rachel Zegler, who plays the fictional princess, has been pictured for the first time with her new companions who appear to be a mix of genders, ethnicities and heights.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Gal Gadot will be in it as the evil stepmother

 

[Kyriakos]

Disney is remaking Snow White but ditching the Prince character.

No more 7 dwarves either.

EXCLUSIVE Snow White and the Seven... Politically-Correct Companions?

EXCLUSIVE: Rachel Zegler, who plays the fictional princess, has been pictured for the first time with her new companions who appear to be a mix of genders, ethnicities and heights.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Gal Gadot will be in it.

This is revolting, GG just doesn't look good enough to be the evil stepmother :/

Not that I watched the Snow-white and the Hunter (or what that was called) movie, but at least Charlize Theron fit the role.

 

[Kaitzilla]

View attachment 667448

This is revolting, GG just doesn't look good enough to be the evil stepmother :/

Heh, the snow white from 10 years ago was a hit with Charlize Theron as the evil stepmother.

Snow White and the Huntsman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hopefully the new one will be good when it comes out in a year or two.

 

[Zardnaar]

But if we de all movies, your principle should still prevail. Major box-office flops will lose tons more money than niche films will make. So the sum-total of broke-wokes will far outweigh the niche-woke-money-makers.

Come on. Say you'll play along. For it to work, we need someone as decisive in sorting as you've shown yourself to be.

Well we keep hearing about there's millions of progressives out their yearning to see thus content

I've been very consistent you can't afford to piss off 30%-40% of the general audience for movies or anything really.

And I've also said it's a trend not an absolute. Niche stuff can absolutely male money few hundred million because it doesn't have to appeal to a general audience.

I suggest we look at reasonable budgets and up say 90 million and over which is similar to costs for John Wick, Barbie, Mario.

Just for the record I never claimed the term is absolute, there's exceptions to ant rules.

I said it's a trend not an absolute Ryle but once again I get the gist of get woke go broke.

Cancel culture and boycotts are much the sane thing. As I understand it Budweiser Light has had some issues lately.

Similar reasoning if you're doing mass market products , goods, services etc you can't really afford to puss off either side to much.

More niche stuff left or right can.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

No Ahsoka was crap early on wasn't because she was female. Anakin syndrome.

So there's hope for Rey

Ahsoka was put into an already established era while Rey is into a much less established part so whole new events, characters and such would be needed to continue her story. Also Ahsoka story of being a teenager padawan and learning and developing as a character by going through many various challenges would probably be difficult to replicate with Rey given how her story already is established, Rey would need another type of story.

Well Ahsoka could perhaps be said to be another version of Anakin or Anakin being an alternative version of Ahsoka given they share similar traits, being prodigies and generally potrayed being well beyond most other jedi in terms of overall ability even at a young age.