Do you believe in the supernatural?

[MaryKB]

It's only a conjecture You have no proof that it is finite.
edit:
Mine too is a conjecture, we are both right in our way

Mathematics again. You cannot have an infinite amount of something.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I believe however that the events occurring in our Universe are repeated constantly all over the place . Events such as stars being "born" or "dying" , supernovas, pulsars, etc .... those events are common around the vast numbers of galaxies , why should the occurrence of life be different ?

From a physics standpoint the complexity of the event "life" is so many orders of magnitude greater than the complexity of the event "star" that the routine repetition of the one really has no bearing on the plausibility of the uniqueness of the other.

 

[Synobun]

If I break your transistor radio it has no real impact on the electromagnetic energy that is bouncing around. Just because all you are hearing is static doesn't mean the music stopped.

I guess I don't see what the point of believing in a soul is if we're just unreliable fleshy receivers with easily corrupted signal interpretation. Why would I care about my soul if it's very possible, if not likely, that my body and mind's manifestation of that soul is compromised? I'll die, so I'll get to be one with my soul again, but that soul may well be a foreign individual after living a life of corrupted signal interpretation here on Earth. And that's without the trauma of cognitive loss or change.

Of course, souls are pretty near and dear to religious beliefs, so that would play a part given that many religions have some kind of ranking system for souls wherein some suffer, some do not, some must be redeemed, etc. But then, with the above, it seems rather unfair to judge a soul for the behaviours of its receiver, since the assertion here is that the receiver is unreliable and easily compromised.

 

[AdamCrock]

Mathematics again. You cannot have an infinite amount of something.

Mathematics also : how many straight lines can cross a point on 2 dimensions (x and y)

edit:
I can go on :
How many points are there on a straight line ?
How many points are there on a circle ?
Are the number of numbers are finite if so what is the last number ?
How many prime numbers are there ?

gotcha !

 

[MaryKB]

Mathematics also : how many straight lines can cross a point on 2 dimensions (x and y)

edit:
I can go on :
How many points are there on a straight line ?
How many points are there on a circle ?
Are the number of numbers are finite if so what is the last number ?
How many prime numbers are there ?

gotcha !

No, you don't "got me." Talking about something material is not the same as abstract.

Stars are material, and thus there is a finite number of them.

Now the universe is infinite in the sense of matter and energy being recycled, but at this very moment there are a finite number of stars in existence.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I guess I don't see what the point of believing in a soul is if we're just unreliable fleshy receivers with easily corrupted signal interpretation. Why would I care about my soul if it's very possible, if not likely, that my body and mind's manifestation of that soul is compromised? I'll die, so I'll get to be one with my soul again, but that soul may well be a foreign individual after living a life of corrupted signal interpretation here on Earth. And that's without the trauma of cognitive loss or change.

Examine this response in the absence of the word "my."

 

[Synobun]

Examine this response in the absence of the word "my."

Doesn't seem to change meaning.

 

[AdamCrock]

No, you don't "got me." Talking about something material is not the same as abstract.

Stars are material, and thus there is a finite number of them.

Now the universe is infinite in the sense of matter and energy being recycled, but at this very moment there are a finite number of stars in existence.

Let's face it We both cannot fully understand the whole of the Universe and it's workings, we base our arguments on conjecture and abstract (math). Let's make peace than I accept defeat and the fact that "I don't 'gotcha !" It's been a pleasure for me though , I hope that You as well. You're sharp I give You that

From a physics standpoint the complexity of the event "life" is so many orders of magnitude greater than the complexity of the event "star" that the routine repetition of the one really has no bearing on the plausibility of the uniqueness of the other.

Just because we cannot repeat an event that has occurred on Earth (when life was born) does not mean it does not repeated itself. Regardless of the orders of magnitude it is my opinion still that it can be repeated given the circumstances - like perhaps on Kepler 442b exoplanet.

 

[Narz]

If I break your transistor radio it has no real impact on the electromagnetic energy that is bouncing around. Just because all you are hearing is static doesn't mean the music stopped.

That apology might make sense if there was any evidence that the brain is controlled remotely rather than responding to immediate stimuli

 

[warpus]

The issue is that we really have no particularly good understanding of how consciousness relates to the body when it is alive...so the assumption that knowing what happens to dead flesh is indicative of what happens to consciousness is pretty tentative.

Just because we don't fully understand counsciousness doesn't mean that we immediately have to shove the supernatural into the equation. There are many phenomena in the universe we don't fully understand either, and it wouldn't make sense (to me) to just assume that the supernatural is involved just because we haven't fully grasped these phenomena.

We don't fully understand our digestive system either. Yet, nobody asks "What really happens when you eat a sandwich?". We know what happens, more or less, the sandwich gets digested and your body processes the nutrients and so on. Maybe some supernatural element is involved in digestion, but there is zero evidence that this is the case.

It's the same with death, it's a process we've studied in great detail, and as far as we can tell it is purely natural. That is not to say that the supernatural is not involved - it could be - but as of now we have zero evidence or hints that this is the case.

I feel this is an incredibly sensible take on the situation. It leaves the door open for further modification of our understanding of death, if some evidence surfaces that something is happening that we don't currently understand yet.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If you define "natural" as "includes everything that happens" then SURPRISE!!! everything that happens is completely natural. Who would have guessed?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Doesn't seem to change meaning.

Try "it seems unlikely that "souls" are individual." Does that change the meaning?

 

[El_Machinae]

Also, the universe is not infinite. It's huge beyond comprehension, but there is still a finite amount of matter and energy.

We don't know this to be true, or even have reason suspect it is. Our best evidence is that it is bigger than we can measure, and the math works out quite nicely if it's infinite.

But there's no reason why the universe has to obey the math that is pretty

 

[AdamCrock]

If you define "natural" as "includes everything that happens" then SURPRISE!!! everything that happens is completely natural. Who would have guessed?

Perhaps we should redefine "supernatural" as "we cannot explain it yet"

 

[Farm Boy]

Try "it seems unlikely that "souls" are individual." Does that change the meaning?

Most of the major faiths, when describing that which they interpret as closest to "souls" do seem to generally include a caveat about us as we think of us being destroyed, remade, reborn, redeemed, or in some way incorporating everything that which came before and will be again, but the you you will be rendered something different. Claiming a denial of redemption in favor of damnation, or something "outside" the commune of the divine is arrogance from tip to toe.

 

[Synobun]

Try "it seems unlikely that "souls" are individual." Does that change the meaning?

To me, that just drives my query further. Why care about a soul if it isn't even yours? Just a temporary bucket from the ocean? Why all this hullabaloo about the soul if it's separate and cosmic anyways? How can our souls be damned or go through salvation if it's not "our" souls?

 

[El_Machinae]

It reminds me of the idea of that we are matter walking around in a Consciousness field. And the Consciousness is only self aware when the matter is arranged correctly. Seems off topic to the thread

 

[Timsup2nothin]

To me, that just drives my query further. Why care about a soul if it isn't even yours? Just a temporary bucket from the ocean? Why all this hullabaloo about the soul if it's separate and cosmic anyways? How can our souls be damned or go through salvation if it's not "our" souls?

Why should I get so excited about "me" if I'm just one possibly flawed receiver reflecting just a part of something much more significant?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It reminds me of the idea of that we are matter walking around in a Consciousness field. And the Consciousness is only self aware when the matter is arranged correctly. Seems off topic to the thread

I'm not sure it is off topic...such a "consciousness field" would fall into the category of supernatural, would it not?

PS...perhaps it is only aware of properly arranged matter when the matter is properly arranged...but that is a mere token of the actual 'self' awareness.

 

[REDY]

As child around 12 I believed in aliens, other children abductions stories persuaded me. Now I dunno...

Some my dreams are still so vivid and real, that I cannot believe its just some chemical process of brain. I have my alternative lives and problems.

Some of my dreams were not supernatural but they were really strange and disturbing for my parents. Like I was able to describe first flat where I have been till my 1 birthday, all knowledge gained just by dream.