Do you prefer experiences or things?

[EgonSpengler]

I used to be a collector, but at some point I realized that I had a whole bunch of crap that I didn't really care about at all. I donated about 200 books to my local library a couple of years ago, and today I couldn't even tell you what any of them were. I have a stack of DVDs and my DVD player hasn't even been hooked up in 3 years. If somebody stole them, it might be months before I even noticed. Crap is crap.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

what if I am obessed with both? I have (to be fair, together with my dad) somewhere between 5000 and 10000 records, hundreds of books (mostly fiction and art), in my digital collection there's more than 1,5TB of music (that's roughly 20,000 albums, mixtapes and EPs, maybe close to a quarter million of actual tracks, not a single compilation or torrent, all of the are hand-picked, renamed, tagged and so on), I also hoard gems (a habit from when I was a child), plants and lots of other stuff. Still I don't feel like I lead a very material life. My rooms are all very minimalistic and mostly empty space, my apartment is the opposite of cramped, when I travel I always have the lightest luggage with me, and so on. Is not collecting in and of itself, even hoarding, an experience anyway? Seems like they are not mutually exclusive.

Either way I do believe that, at some point, your posessions end up owning you, which is why I think very hard about whether I really need/want something I'm about to purchase. Mostly I just say nah and buy good food instead.

I'm still very young and I've been to four different continents and countless countries, many of those vacations I did alone, so in the end I would probably say I am an experience person, but it's hard to make that call.

(I have a very weird relationship with my posessions, especially electronic devices, I often talk to them, usually to calm them down, or show them how much I appreciate them, but yeah that's another story for another day)

Well, I have no things so there's only one answer I can honestly give, but I don't travel either. I consider it pointless to go somewhere if I can't live there...that's how you experience a place, not by passing through it.

That's such an arbitrary distinction. I did a school-exchange with Latin America for 3 months, lived with a family and all. Is that now a vacation or did I live there? Some friends of mine left home for three or four years and travelled through all of asia, is that simply a vacation or did they actually live, experience it? I studied for more than half a year in Korea, had my own apartment and all, was that a vacation or did I live there?

I do see what you're getting at. For example when people go on a cruise, they usually have a few hours to see all the destinations they stop at. It's disgusting, like collecting stamps, but instead of stamps you're collecting countries. Of course in such a scenario you never actually got to experience anything besides existential dread and long queues.

I was thinking about gifts. If someone wants to gift me something, would I prefer they gift me an experience or an item?

The answer I kept coming up with was that I preferred neither. I've never truly liked a surprise of either kind. I prefer what I want in the moment, and that can be an experience or a thing but it doesn't really have a rhyme or reason to it. I usually opt to just stay in my corner.

For the most part, I'm passive in how I want to live life. I am completely happy just going out to the movies, getting a burger, and then hanging out at home with someone. I don't need to go to events. I probably don't want to go to the event. I don't care very much about traveling beyond the scope of seeing my friends.

And then, when it comes to items, well... I can fit everything that isn't a necessity into a duffel bag even after living independently for six years. I don't really like knick knacks or decorations. I have an octopus snow globe on display that a friend got me but I only notice it when I'm cleaning. I have no paintings or posters on the walls. My linens are just plain colours. I just don't really have anything. I don't understand having things. I have a jacket and a sweater from the Leafs since they're my favourite sports team and I've never worn them. Even if I had things, I have no idea what I'd do with them.

this is like reading Fernando Pessoa set in the 21st century

by the way, those bolded things you said I don't think are true. you have many things. for one, you collect games. your steam library is huge, and it has many games you spent your money on that you never even touched. I know (because you posted that), mine looks exactly the same. that is just one small example. you prefer to not have physical things, and you prefer to not have your apartment cluttered (I feel that way, I genuinely cannot think when a room is too "cozy", when it's overltly decorated, kitschy, posters, holyday garbage, whatever..).

but when you think really hard I am sure you will find an item you appreciate very much. a trusty pair of shoes or maybe a sofa or a chair that feels comfortable or maybe a pill, or maybe just your computer. I love my computer, I cherish it.

 

[BenitoChavez]

I'm an unequal mix. Sometimes it is nice if someone buys you the newest fanciest version of product X as a gift. For the most part I only buy things if they are warn out or used up.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Experiences, for sure. Other than having some fun media/hobby stuff, I've downsized my things so much lately. I've donated 1/3 of my books, sold 2/3 of my video games. It's just not really helpful to me to have crap I won't use again. It feels constricting when it gets too much. I don't even want people to give me 'stuff' that will take up space since I live in such a small living arrangement, and as it is I gotta clean out our kitchen and get rid of some pots and pans and drinking glasses. All my favorite moments - like cry from joy moments - are from road trips, or overseas trips, or sunsets on the beach in summer, or even just getting stoned and watching funny movies with some good food, etc.

movies and food are perfect examples of when the dichotomy utterly collapses. personally I see all art as experience primarily, but I also tend to see entertainment as a commodity, as a consumer good, so when the fine line between art and commercial entertainment is ruptured (which it has been for more than a hundred years) then suddenly I don't know anymore if I am consuming or experiencing. the same goes for food. Is going to McDonalds primarily an experience or the consumption of a commodity? How is the consumption of commodities not also an experience?

capitalism is weird like that.

 

[brennan]

I value knowledge and wisdom.

 

[civvver]

I learned to cook in prison; with plastic bowls, a microwave, and a razor blade. It provided a great experience. Sometimes when I am cooking in my gf's kitchen, with a set of chef knives and all those different pots and pans it boggles my mind.

Well sure, there's a range, like with the ingredients as well, you can make a few burgers or ribeye caps that cost $20 a pound. Simple stuff you don't need gadgets or fancy pots. A good cast iron or stainless skillet can make almost anything, but tools can help you do stuff faster. I used to chop all my vegetables and herbs by hand but then I got a mini food processor and it's just way faster to use it and cleanup isn't an issue because it's dishwasher safe too. Since I'm not a pro chef and have horrible knife skills mincing garlic takes me forever, like a good 15 minutes. Food processor cuts that to around 3.

Same with pasta. I have hand mixed, rolled and cut pasta before and it tasted fine but damn, it took forever. I've also used a hand cranked pasta roller in a class, and that cut the time way down, but I have a stand mixer powered roller set now and you can roll out fresh pasta in 5 minutes. Total time to make it is like 15 if you know what you are doing, though I like to give my dough a good resting period between kneading it and rolling it.

 

[Synobun]

by the way, those bolded things you said I don't think are true. you have many things. for one, you collect games. your steam library is huge, and it has many games you spent your money on that you never even touched. I know (because you posted that), mine looks exactly the same.

If I wanted to collect games, I'd have well over 1000. As it is, I have less than 300, 100 of those were from back when bundles redeemed as one big group of games instead of individual keys and another 20-30 were from when the account was owned by my father. I've played mostly everything in my library, largely because video games are one of the only avenues of entertainment and stimulation available to me that can be consistently revisited or expanded upon without overdoing it in mental exertion.

but when you think really hard I am sure you will find an item you appreciate very much. a trusty pair of shoes or maybe a sofa or a chair that feels comfortable or maybe a pill, or maybe just your computer. I love my computer, I cherish it.

I don't. I own no furniture except a $40 chair and a hospital tray for my laptop. I have a single pair of shoes that I got from Amazon for $50. It makes my feet wet when it's raining outside and they're uncomfortable. I own a single shirt and a single pair of pants for wearing outdoors. I have two shirts for wearing indoors that are 11 years old. My laptop is the only item I treasure, and that's mostly because everything in my life revolves around it. I'm physically incapable and am not extremely sociable so all my work, fulfillment, and entertainment comes through that device. If I lost this computer, my life would be over. Does that count as preferring things over experiences? I'm not sure that it does.

In general though I don't like your implication that I really do love having things and I'm just blind to it mostly because if I didn't have those games and my laptop, my time would be solely taken up by staring at the wall for a few years before offing myself in a fit of insanity.

 

[civvver]

How can you not collect steam games when you can get 10 for a $1? I think I have a couple thousand, but have spent probably $400-500 total over ~10 years with my two most expensive games being civ5 at full release price, $50-60 I don't remember, and skyrim at $30 in 2012. Only other game I can think of that I bought full price was spaz 2 for $20.

 

[Phrossack]

I like my bow. I like my games. I would like to build giant models of ships, docks, harbors, and so on someday, and own at least one full suit of armor.

But on the whole, I prefer experiences. They're less of a hassle to move, and make for better conversation.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

How can you not collect steam games when you can get 10 for a $1? I think I have a couple thousand, but have spent probably $400-500 total over ~10 years with my two most expensive games being civ5 at full release price, $50-60 I don't remember, and skyrim at $30 in 2012. Only other game I can think of that I bought full price was spaz 2 for $20.

A couple thousands? Seriously?

I have about 50-100 and think the list is already too long. Of my Steam games i only really use RFactor 2 , Rimworld and sometimes KSP and Subnautica.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

You don't need to own a book to read it.The thoughts and feelings expressed in a book are the same whether on paper, a screen, or in audio. The essence of a book is an experience, not a thing.

 

[The_J]

movies and food are perfect examples of when the dichotomy utterly collapses.

Uh.. i think it's still pretty simple: If it doesn't last until the next day, or so; different scale for food), it's not a thing.
Going to the cinema is an XP, buying a DVD is a thing.
(EDIT: After a second thought, it's probably not as clear as I had in mind)

But yeah, I prefer XP. For the most of my life I did nothing. For 10+ years of my life I have no XP, no stories to tell. And I realize it's sad, and other people have there a lot more. I want to catch up.

I also don't want to own more. I will move to a different country this year, and I'd rather not move clutter.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That's such an arbitrary distinction. I did a school-exchange with Latin America for 3 months, lived with a family and all. Is that now a vacation or did I live there? Some friends of mine left home for three or four years and travelled through all of asia, is that simply a vacation or did they actually live, experience it? I studied for more than half a year in Korea, had my own apartment and all, was that a vacation or did I live there?

I do see what you're getting at. For example when people go on a cruise, they usually have a few hours to see all the destinations they stop at. It's disgusting, like collecting stamps, but instead of stamps you're collecting countries. Of course in such a scenario you never actually got to experience anything besides existential dread and long queues.

I went on a cruise and experienced loafing at sea and sort of whirlwind roaming through port towns like they were amusement parks, which was cool. Missed the existential dread, but I miss that in a lot of other places where people tend to say it exists as well. But my point wasn't that a vacation isn't an experience. It was that I, personally, don't highly value the vacation experience. The cruise ship experience is a good case in point. I enjoyed it, but from a practical standpoint it made no difference where it went. I no more "know Ensenada" because I got off a cruise ship there once than I "know Tahiti," where I've never been, or "know Flagstaff," where I spent a few nights in a hotel. I would go on another cruise if I had someone I wanted to experience it with, for the experience of doing it with them. But it wouldn't matter if it went to the same ports, or different ports, because they're all ports.

Ensenada is part of the 'cruise ship experience,' and Flagstaff is part of...well, a different experience that also involved hotels in Albuquerque and Visalia and Cheyenne and Tucson and Yuma and too many other places to even keep up with and multiple stays in Vegas being treated like a whale which made the entire experience really impressive. The 'bit player' cities in that little adventure are like faces in a crowd seen from a distance. I remember a root beer float at an A&W in Visalia, and I remember slipping and falling on a slick patch in Cheyenne, and this truck driver I spoke with briefly waiting in a line in Tucson...and that's about it.

As to the distinction about 'living there' being arbitrary...yeah, it is; I agree. To make it really arbitrary I used to assign a randomly determined term of six months that I just pulled off the top of my head. Being more open minded now I definitely would call the three month student exchange thing a fair chance to get to know a place. I hosted one of those one time, and I know our student went back to Korea with a pretty good sense of what middle class struggling parents of small children in the US are about, or at least were about circa 1991. Half a year studying in Korea is definitely "living there," even by the old six month threshold.

Three or four years traveling through Asia seems more like the cruise ship type of 'experience in itself,' rather than any sort of 'living there' experience. Now, if they arrived penniless and worked their way around, rooting into whatever dark corners they had to for strangers to get by and gather the where with all to move on that would be different, but few people go in for that sort of thing. Suffice to say I know more about San Diego from the time I spent several nights in ditches between days looking for work than from all the times I've visited since. Maybe they got a lot out of it, but I'd have spent three years living three places and getting to know them; had jobs, had neighbors, identified favorite places, made friends, gotten in fights...familiarity.

 

[cardgame]

I prefer things that give me experiences. That way I can get the benefit of both. That's why I've invested in VR and hi-fi headphones and my clothing collection. It's all novel

For that matter, so are good books. They transport you to a novel place, the best ones emotionally.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

post!

what I was trying to get at is that video games are a synthesis of both commodity and experience, but that they range more towards the commodity/object/posession side, since they are lacking many aspects of pure experience: they are not very tactile, aside from using keyboard and mouse, they don't really involve smell nor taste, nor much movement or muscle activity (albeit some). however they are still art and they are still being "experienced" by you (passively) and casting their spell unto you (actively).

it's fine, if the only things you enjoy are your laptop and games, then I won't question that, after all it is you who knows best what things he likes best. I wasn't trying to imply that I know better, just trying to get to know you. also I think 300 games is a lot, but considering it's what you spend most of your time on maybe it ain't all that much. just curious: do you not read or watch movies or listen to music?

Uh.. i think it's still pretty simple: If it doesn't last until the next day, or so; different scale for food), it's not a thing.
Going to the cinema is an XP, buying a DVD is a thing.

But yeah, I prefer XP. For the most of my life I did nothing. For 10+ years of my life I have no XP, no stories to tell. And I realite it's sad, and other ppl have there a lot more. I want to catch up.

I also don't want to own more. I will move to a different country this year, and I'd rather not move clutter.

it is hard to seperate the thing from the experience it provides: a car is a thing but is inevitably tied to driving, which is an experience. as SS18 correctly points out, a book is a thing, but the thoughts and feelings expressed in it are an experience, reading a book is an experience, the same as watching a movie, listening to an album etc. things provide us with experiences so why open up a dichotomy?

many things last only for a short amount of time but are definitely posessions. think about the rose example provided earlier ITT. it is highly perishable, subject to change, but it is also a complete sensory experience with smell, touch, everything.

I prefer things that give me experiences. That way I can get the benefit of both. That's why I've invested in VR and hi-fi headphones and my clothing collection. It's all novel

For that matter, so are good books. They transport you to a novel place, the best ones emotionally.

Ever since reading simulacra and simulation I'm deathly afraid of VR. I don't think VR is pure experience to be honest, it is mostly simulated experience, which is a different horse.

Three or four years traveling through Asia seems more like the cruise ship type of 'experience in itself,' rather than any sort of 'living there' experience. Now, if they arrived penniless and worked their way around, rooting into whatever dark corners they had to for strangers to get by and gather the where with all to move on that would be different, but few people go in for that sort of thing. Suffice to say I know more about San Diego from the time I spent several nights in ditches between days looking for work than from all the times I've visited since. Maybe they got a lot out of it, but I'd have spent three years living three places and getting to know them; had jobs, had neighbors, identified favorite places, made friends, gotten in fights...familiarity.

I agree on everything, but especially on this part, hence why I included the question. it is not so much about length of the stay as it is about mentality.

 

[Yeekim]

Experiences.
But this is supposed to be a family-friendly forum, so I won't elaborate.

 

[civvver]

A couple thousands? Seriously?

I have about 50-100 and think the list is already too long. Of my Steam games i only really use RFactor 2 , Rimworld and sometimes KSP and Subnautica.

I overestimated. 626 games owned. Feels like more lol.

 

[cardgame]

Ever since reading simulacra and simulation I'm deathly afraid of VR. I don't think VR is pure experience to be honest, it is mostly simulated experience, which is a different horse.

As a general, broad concept, or for you to personally try?

I'm not sure the lines are clear between real and simulated here, because it tricks your brain into thinking things are real. You can get real motion sickness from the fake simulation... so how fake is it really? Not equivalent to the exact same thing in real life, but a very, very, very far cry from watching a movie or reading a book about it. Real enough to qualify as a real experience if you ask me. The first thing I saw in VR was a low-polygon wild fox wander up to me and I had a real instinct to reach forward and pet it, despite knowing I'm in a simulation - to the point where I actually raised my arms to attempt it before realizing it wouldn't exactly work. I also played Minecraft in VR very briefly, and walking up to the docile wild horses was actually scary just because of their size - they're significantly bigger than you are, which is a sense you can't perceive outside of VR. That's a real experience.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

It is remarkable as VR has the power to trick our reptilian brain. First times you use it you will experiment vertigo, real physical fear including goosebumps and cold sweats, anguish, etc. (i particularly remember the dark mine in Arizona Sunshine, i really dont want to return there, ever)

Then the neocortex takes command and you will gradually be able to control any situation. Some people however never achieve it 100% . My mother for instance is unable to complete Richie's Plank Experience not matter how many times she tries, she simply cant walk along the plank. My brother cant stand subnautica for more than 5 minutes and a friend of mine cant tolerate frontal crashes in racing sims... Some people however should simply be kept away of any HMD:

 

[Cutlass]

Experiences. Things are for use, not for the having.