Do you see transgendered folks as female?

[cardgame]

@OP: Yes, I do.

I don't have any particular experience with transsexual folks and the idea of being born in the wrong body is quite foreign to me, but I think that those who are going MtF and don't have genital surgery, are just cross dressers. I don't keep up with Caitlyn Jenner so I haven't a clue about the state of his genitals, but if having boobs and wearing pretty underwear helps him get through the night, it's fine with me.

In our search for meaning and a place in the world we over parse everything. Dividing things up into finer and finer gradations only makes more pieces; bringing people together is the real answer.

*her

and that's simply not true.

SOURCE: <--- CROSS DRESSER who has talked to actual trans women.

 

[Smellincoffee]

I give very little credence to claims of gender confusion. There is an infinitesimally small percentage of people with chromosomal issues that allow room for sincere confusion regarding gender, but most are, I believe, simply confused and sabotaged by a society which believes every fact of existence is subject to human will. While I don't play the game in regards to treating gender-confused people as whatever they're pretending to be, I don't challenge people, either. The few people I know with gender confusion use their given names, so that instead of having to refer to a "Ms. Jenner" I can simply say "Bruce", for example. So long as they don't insist on me being part of their self-deception, I'm happy to coexist in amiable tolerance.

 

[cardgame]

I give very little credence to claims of gender confusion. There is an infinitesimally small percentage of people with chromosomal issues that allow room for sincere confusion regarding gender, but most are, I believe, simply confused and sabotaged by a society which believes every fact of existence is subject to human will. While I don't play the game in regards to treating gender-confused people as whatever they're pretending to be, I don't challenge people, either. The few people I know with gender confusion use their given names, so that instead of having to refer to a "Ms. Jenner" I can simply say "Bruce", for example. So long as they don't insist on me being part of their self-deception, I'm happy to coexist in amiable tolerance.

Let me ask you something. Do you believe transgender people need help?

 

[Birdjaguar]

*her

and that's simply not true.

SOURCE: <--- CROSS DRESSER who has talked to actual trans women.

As someone without experience in this arena, IMO, gender is tied to genitalia. A peek in the panties will tell you a person's gender. How one dresses, acts, is attracted to, thinks of themselves, feels like, or otherwise presents themselves to the world is up to them. We all want the same thing in life and find our own paths to get us there.

 

[Antilogic]

I've a couple of friends who are male > female trans, and when I'm concoiusly thinking about them, I do so as female, but there are certianly times when I'm not really thinking about it I put them as male.

This is probably down to the fact I knew them as male for quite some time and thus it's ingrained in me, as I've met a few trans individuals who I've only known post-change and I have no trouble at all considering them as their gender.

It's bound to cause confusion, but making that effort to respect them as they see themselves is largely appreciated and all people like us need to do.

I've always felt, too, that there's something a little strange about someone who "wants to be accepted for what they are" but who also wishes to take drastic steps to realign their gender.

But then why can't we accept them as they are as people who want to realign their gender? Which of course we can, and do, if we're sufficiently liberal and generous.

But as Mr kangaru has remarked: "People are, and always have been, wacky". Whether we're gender realigners or not.

From what I have gathered, it's more like they have an inner dialogue in their head, and they want their public personage to reflect that inner dialogue in their head and be accepted by society instead of being discriminated against for it.

As someone without experience in this arena, IMO, gender is tied to genitalia. A peek in the panties will tell you a person's gender. How one dresses, acts, is attracted to, thinks of themselves, feels like, or otherwise presents themselves to the world is up to them. We all want the same thing in life and find our own paths to get us there.

I think if you replace "gender" with "sex" you are perfectly fine in this stance. Gender is more of an umbrella category with several different components, only one of which is the sexual organs you were born with. Those other facts you mention, like dress, behavior, attraction, and such are all parts of that umbrella category of gender as well.

 

[bhavv]

As someone without experience in this arena, IMO, gender is tied to genitalia. A peek in the panties will tell you a person's gender. How one dresses, acts, is attracted to, thinks of themselves, feels like, or otherwise presents themselves to the world is up to them. We all want the same thing in life and find our own paths to get us there.

I would also still like to believe this, but unfortunately Biological facts are now offensive and politically incorrect.

 

[Smellincoffee]

Let me ask you something. Do you believe transgender people need help?

Which people? What kind of help? I ask seriously, because the idea of helping someone who has developed both testicular and ovarian tissue is scary as all-get out. That's really no one's decision to make but theirs. It's such an infrequent thing that we have virtually no experience with it, no idea what will happen if this or that is monkeyed about with. The only dependable thing we can offer is compassion.

As for those who are simply being -- creative, shall we say, in their path to self-expression, who offer nothing to substantiate a claim of gender dysphoria other than feelings, meh. People act strangely to seek attention, even if they don't know it's their motivation. I choose the path of amiable tolerance, neither attacking nor patronizing.

 

[Narz]

I'll see them as whatever they want to be. It certainly seems easier than looking at someone who looks female and saying "oh, wait, used to be a guy so override immediate evidence of senses just to be snarky."

I have yet to meet a m to f trans where my immediate senses said "female".

 

[Narz]

I think it's best not to think of gender as necessarily a simple binary these days.

Maybe not but language (at least English) doesn't make it easy (and I imagine others like Spanish make it even trickier).

To amend the OP, I don't care whether someone is male or female unless I potentially want to merge sexually with them but I still have trouble not creating a third category in my perception rather than seeing only male & female. I find most m to f trannies I've met remind me more of men than women even with a hyper-feminine exterior.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I have yet to meet a m to f trans where my immediate senses said "female".

I'm confused by this statement. Unless you are in the context of a "transgender convention" how are you distinguishing that you are meeting a transgender person?

 

[bhavv]

But the real question is, would Mr Narz swing for an M2F?

 

[Narz]

Is this actually true? If so it might be interesting to ponder why that might be the case.

Being a m to f tranny is much more lucrative & than being a f to m tranny. Hormones & surgery & the trappings of femininity are not cheap. Perhaps the allure is to be accepted for beauty rather than being accepted for achievement. These are only speculations, obviously for each person the motivation will be different. I have only known one transgender person well & its kind of a taboo subject to speak about because she has never brought it (that she is transgender) up so I'm not going to be rude/awkward & speak on it. She is a good person, I see her as a man though & speak to her as one (though I respect her desire to be seen as female in that I use female pronouns when referring to her & would never question her femininity).

 

[Kyriakos]

Trans-species is more interesting, though. Like the number of people who have surgery to alter their face to look more like a cat.

I mean i get it, from time to time i'd rather be a massive octopus being carried by the currents in an endless unlit abyss.

But society is unforgiving

 

[Synobun]

Trans-species is more interesting, though. Like the number of people who have surgery to alter their face to look more like a cat.

That isn't what this thread is about. It'd be rather poor taste to enter a thread about tea and say you'd rather talk about coffee, I think the same applies here.

 

[Kyriakos]

I was only arguing that trans-gender is actually quite conformist and a baby-step. Essentially a counter-revolution to patriarchy.

 

[Borachio]

I'm confused by this statement. Unless you are in the context of a "transgender convention" how are you distinguishing that you are meeting a transgender person?

Good one!

I'm reminded of those who claim never to have had an hallucination, or seen a ghost.

As for the transgendered, I generally find looking at the back of the knees is very helpful, though not infallible. Obviously.

 

[Atticus]

As someone without experience in this arena, IMO, gender is tied to genitalia. A peek in the panties will tell you a person's gender. How one dresses, acts, is attracted to, thinks of themselves, feels like, or otherwise presents themselves to the world is up to them. We all want the same thing in life and find our own paths to get us there.

I'm under the impression that the genitalia determines the sex, while the gender is defined by how people act. A lot of the time you determine the gender of a person without the peek in the panties, at least I hope so, so that can't be the determining factor.

If I know someone's a transgender, I see him/her as a transgender. Don't see any reason to think that everyone should be either a girl or a boy. I probably wouldn't tell that to him/her though, since I'm under the impression that it can be a very big deal to them.

 

[azzaman333]

Depends on the specific person and situation, but I tend to go with whatever the individual in question goes with.

 

[Borachio]

About 18 months ago, I spent some time with someone whose gender was a complete mystery to me.

I think they were F to M in the process of transgendering, but I'm really not sure. Could have been the other way round. They did mention it early on, but I wasn't paying sufficient attention for it to register.

Didn't help that they were in a wheelchair, with some other obvious (though unspecified) physical difficulties. I mean, at what stage would it have been appropriate to ask any "probing" questions, and at what stage should I have stopped? I just kept my curiosity (such as it was) to myself.

 

[Antilogic]

I'm confused by this statement. Unless you are in the context of a "transgender convention" how are you distinguishing that you are meeting a transgender person?

Some people haven't had all the surgeries or been on hormone therapy for too long, and it's fairly obvious. Might see a Adam's apple, for example.

Didn't help that they were in a wheelchair, with some other obvious (though unspecified) physical difficulties. I mean, at what stage would it have been appropriate to ask any "probing" questions, and at what stage should I have stopped? I just kept my curiosity (such as it was) to myself.

My rule is to ask how they want to be identified and stick with that. I hold off any more probing questions.

I mean, it would be kind of weird for me to meet you and ask a bunch of questions about whether your dick works or if you had reconstructive surgery on your genitals, right? It would be awkward. So I wouldn't do that to a transperson either.