Do you see transgendered folks as female?

[brennan]

I think it's best not to think of gender as necessarily a simple binary these days.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Other than the occasional thought about a stray pronoun I generally don't find any reason to think about gender at all. My girlfriend is female, but other than that I don't see where anyone's gender has any impact on me.

 

[Smote]

So far, I don't think I have thought of MtF transgender people as "actually female." I have never really gotten to know a transgender person though.

 

[Synobun]

I think it's less that we've become increasingly convoluted and more that it's become more acceptable and so we hear about it more.

I think humans have just always been weird and wacky.

Very true, and I completely agree.

My reference to convoluted more has to do with people drawing lines in the sand with their identity to the point of absurdity. Minor differences between people become very clearly defined categories to the point that in some cliques in our society you could create a grocery list of your identified groupings and at the end of it all they'll have told you that they're someone who likes boys and girls with more of a focus on their mind rather than their body. It, in my opinion, leads to segregation, superiority complexes, and self-inflicted isolation. One can say that it's only a problem with underage kids on Tumblr (or related sites) but I've run into grown adults who operate that way in-person enough to know that it's a growing "lifestyle". I'm not a big fan of it, but ultimately my opinion doesn't matter on the subject as I'm not the one living it nor am I particularly educated enough to have a non-biased view of it.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I would still see them as essentially male (or female I suppose, given the actual title of the topic which goes both ways). Again, not as any form of judgement, but that would just be the way I see it. This is answered on the assumption that I actually know the person's background of course. If I don't actually know then I probably would see them as female, but obviously they'd have to be convincingly female in order for me to not be able to tell, and unfortunately I think that only applies to a minority of the lucky ones. I just don't think medical science has progressed to the point of a magic wand yet. This is entirely academic though and based on zero experience as this has never come up as an issue in real life.

(lets just say M to F since its much more common)

Is this actually true? If so it might be interesting to ponder why that might be the case.

 

[Borachio]

Isn't the surgery substantially easier?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I have no idea. But is the question expressly limited to post-op transsexuals?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

No. If I had a very close experience which would give me the female vibe (which basically would mean - I'd do it, under some circumstances), it is possible. But the entry level is so high that I don't suppose it will ever happen.
But at first I would show full respect, just out of consideration.
If such a still causal relationship should progress, I'd eventually would want to find out what exactly is going on with this guy. Sorry, but biological sex matters in how you think, it matters to finding out who you are. I would not directly act on that wish. But it would play a role in further dealings, a kind of trial persiod and if I came out finding you truly comfortable with that self-image, I'd at least settle with acceptance.

Unless you are a female-to-male. I really have no idea how that would work for me.
Also, I am not talking morally here. The morality is part of it, but I'd try to describe I think I'd in actual practice handle, I don't mean to suggest that this was the proper course, which by telling will win the approval of a transgender. I don't think there is genuine approval in me a transgender rightfully wants, but the thought is in me that this kind of view would be approbate, even good.

 

[Borachio]

I have no idea. But is the question expressly limited to post-op transsexuals?

I wouldn't expect it is, no. But isn't that the ultimate goal of gender realignment: to actually realign one's gender?

I'm not sure it can be done in practice though. Not fully.

The whole idea of taking medication for the rest of one's life in order to maintain a specific gender has always struck me as a rather drastic thing to do. And yet, when all's said and done, what's the difference between taking hormones and taking statins (for instance)?

 

[illram]

It takes a little bit of time but eventually the shift in my brain becomes more or less total.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I think it's best not to think of gender as necessarily a simple binary these days.

Somehow I get the impression transgendered people abide by the binary system, since they are highly distressed by any association with the other gender.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I wouldn't expect it is, no. But isn't that the ultimate goal of gender realignment: to actually realign one's gender?

I'm not sure it can be done in practice though. Not fully.

The whole idea of taking medication for the rest of one's life in order to maintain a specific gender has always struck me as a rather drastic thing to do. And yet, when all's said and done, what's the difference between taking hormones and taking statins (for instance)?

Well... aren't we increasingly told that gender is entirely separate to biological sex these days? In which case you shouldn't need any surgery at all to reassign one's "gender". But whether it's the ultimate goal or not, there are many transsexuals who live/dress as the opposite sex without having undergone any actual surgery, so if it turns out that there are more male-to-female even in THAT category then that would be the interesting question as to why that is.

 

[Leifmk]

Somehow I get the impression transgendered people abide by the binary system, since they are highly distressed by any association with the other gender.

As far as I know (from spending a fair amount of time in online fora which have happened to include a fair number of transpersons) this is a pretty gross oversimplification. Humans are a complicated and varied bunch and this is no less true of transgendered people.

 

[Borachio]

@Belheim: I don't know what the situation is, tbh.

I would expect there to be more M to Fs (of the non surgery transexuals) because males are more likely to be risk takers (I think), being more (biologically speaking) dispensable/expendable than females. But my expectations are very often confounded.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

@Belheim: I don't know what the situation is, tbh.

I would expect there to be more M to Fs (of the non surgery transexuals) because males are more likely to be risk takers (I think), being more (biologically speaking) dispensable/expendable than females. But my expectations are very often confounded.

But if you're going to categorise them as men who are taking risks, wouldn't that undermine the idea that they are, to all intents and purposes, women who were born in the wrong body?

 

[Borachio]

Yes, indeed. You're quite right.

I've always felt, too, that there's something a little strange about someone who "wants to be accepted for what they are" but who also wishes to take drastic steps to realign their gender.

But then why can't we accept them as they are as people who want to realign their gender? Which of course we can, and do, if we're sufficiently liberal and generous.

But as Mr kangaru has remarked: "People are, and always have been, wacky". Whether we're gender realigners or not.

 

[Zelig]

Other than the occasional thought about a stray pronoun I generally don't find any reason to think about gender at all. My girlfriend is female, but other than that I don't see where anyone's gender has any impact on me.

People who don't currently have significant others may want to be somewhat more discriminating.

 

[IglooDame]

People who don't currently have significant others may want to be somewhat more discriminating.

Well, let's take your "potential future significant other" aspect out of it. Presuming you're male hetersexual (so you'd not be evaluating them as a potential hookup either way), do you see a born-female transgendered person as male or female? Which public bathroom should they use?

As far as the MtF/FtM ratios, there was one Dutch facility that had three MtF candidates (or whatever you'd call them) for every one FtM. However, that was a few decades ago, there are other factors that could have skewed their results (that tM surgery is more difficult and that tM folks can more readily skip the surgery and just successfully "live Male-ish", for two), and I've not seen any other numbers that aren't blatantly anecdotal.

 

[Zelig]

Well, let's take your "potential future significant other" aspect out of it. Presuming you're male hetersexual (so you'd not be evaluating them as a potential hookup either way), do you see a born-female transgendered person as male or female? Which public bathroom should they use?

My comment wasn't directed towards transgendered people in particular.

I don't really care about public bathrooms, let people use whatever they want, make them all co-ed for all I care. (As long as they keep urinals for efficient stand-up urination by anyone who has the relevant hardware.)

 

[Birdjaguar]

I don't have any particular experience with transsexual folks and the idea of being born in the wrong body is quite foreign to me, but I think that those who are going MtF and don't have genital surgery, are just cross dressers. I don't keep up with Caitlyn Jenner so I haven't a clue about the state of his genitals, but if having boobs and wearing pretty underwear helps him get through the night, it's fine with me.

In our search for meaning and a place in the world we over parse everything. Dividing things up into finer and finer gradations only makes more pieces; bringing people together is the real answer.