DoC Domination Challenge
- Thread starter Jusos2108
- Start date
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the AIs play at the "Noble" or "Viceroy" difficulty level as compared to the player?
That's something that always bugged me about vanilla BtS in that difficulty is artificially inflated by the AIs only being better than you by virtue of arbitrary bonuses.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
^ At least in terms of Stability, RFC AIs play on Monarch (NOT Viceroy) afaik. As we all know Stability is what matters in RFC anyway.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
^ Noble economy & happiness bonuses definitely factor into stability though.
I conquered London early and capitulated England surprisingly they didn't collapse and contributed some land towards the domination. After England I took Frankfurt and later all of Germany. I vassalised Portugal, Iran and Ottomans. Towards the end I capitulated the Russians to get the land and launched couple nukes to shrink the world population in my favor.
Spoiler :
Good relations and power. Give Education to the nations that you want to vassalise, that have different religion than you.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
You just have to gift techs they value sufficiently. Often Aesthetics/Literature is enough. Proposing Defensive Pacts/Open Borders/Resource Trade Deals also improve relations. Secularism also helps greatly.
It's also semi-necessary that another foreign power is threatening them. Otherwise you get "We're doing fine on our own" even if you're vastly more powerful. For example, Inca will be willing to vassalize on Pleased if another European power is threatening them. Otherwise they only vassalize on Friendly.
Education lowers the different religion penalty, thus making vassalisation easier... I thought this was common knowledge; it is not like I randomly picked it.
Threat from another power is not necessarily at all. Incas usually vassalise couple turns after meeting them and they haven't met any other powers in between. This happens at pleased too.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
LOL I wondered. I'm always on Secularism by the time Education is tradeable, so no, I never knew this until now. I used to think Napoleon simply cares less about religion than Charlemagne. Now I realize it's perhaps because Napoleon has Education.Education lowers the different religion penalty, thus making vassalisation easier... I thought this was common knowledge; it is not like I randomly picked it.
Huh. Perhaps there are set dates when vassalization thresholds change for certain civs? Because I sometimes need to wait till Friendly to vassalize certain civs.
Perhaps it also has to do with distance. Inca is much more likely to vassalize if you have a city in SA. Portugal prefers to vassalize to Spain over anybody else, etc.
btw does Attitude affect Capitulation too? Or is that purely based on power and/or war weariness?
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Yes, iOnlySignIn, there seem to be a few capitulations coded. An example: I met Aztecs as England, but saw their workboat first, so I didn't get the conquerors, but they were willing to become a vassal state anyway, without any war and at pleased.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
I did it.
It was insanely difficult and I had to approach it from many different angles, but I did it.
So here it is, just to show it is possible (if barely; actually, I think vassalizing Russia is key for this but it's hard to time Astronomy with the Mongol spawn so you can be their savior)
Civilization: Chinese
Vassals: England, Vikings, Mongols, Ottomans (first four all voluntarily vassaled), Russia (capitulated)
Difficulty: Monarch
Speed: Normal
Finish Date: 1860; Turn 377
I think I will attempt Ottomans/Japan next.
It was insanely difficult and I had to approach it from many different angles, but I did it.
So here it is, just to show it is possible (if barely; actually, I think vassalizing Russia is key for this but it's hard to time Astronomy with the Mongol spawn so you can be their savior)
Civilization: Chinese
Vassals: England, Vikings, Mongols, Ottomans (first four all voluntarily vassaled), Russia (capitulated)
Difficulty: Monarch
Speed: Normal
Finish Date: 1860; Turn 377
I think I will attempt Ottomans/Japan next.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
^ Really great game!
Ottoman domination will be really easy now with their UP and the decreased Culture penalty.
Just conquer one city in India and watch your Culture expand all the way into Tibet.
Ottoman domination will be really easy now with their UP and the decreased Culture penalty.
Just conquer one city in India and watch your Culture expand all the way into Tibet.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
@iOnlySignIn: Thank you very much!
I forgot to embellish my strategy in my post.
Overall, this would not be possible if you had not introduced me to your core China city setup and the Theology gambit, along with the various things you've taught me, Fresol, so I must thank you too! My setup differs in that I prefer 1 city in Manchuria, Hancheng & 1 city in Japan, instead of two; the risk of Japanese rebirth is too strong to risk any chances and the benefit of this setup is that it covers more land.
1. Squat Varanasi and search for huts
2. Get Confucianism & Taoism for 1st UHV.
3. Rush Corea on spawn (Chariots).
4. Rush Japan on spawn (CKNs).
5. Rush Mongols on spawn if they DOW you, if not, leave them alone (War Elephants + Cannons). This is a critical window of opportunity for Catherine (or Peter) to come running into your arms to protect them from the Mongol horde. Achieve 2/3 UHV; ignore Golden Age goal.
6. Do not disband conquerors; seize Huaxacayac, that is the only thing you want. Build up a small Galleon fleet.
7. Make sure you don't use any Golden Ages; it will ruin your economy in the long run.
8. Tech for Currassiers ASAP. Load up your fleet with those Currassiers and head for Portugal via your canal (Huaxacayac). Pick up additional troops from the Huaxacayac garrison.
9. While the fleet is sailing to Portugal, send about 10-12 Currassiers by land across Asia, and decide which Euro you want to kill. The qualifiers are Spain, France & HRE.
Any Euros you leave alive, set your espionage focus on the one that is the most stable and teching the fastest. Also, try to politically position it so that one of those surviving Euros might vassalize to you. Back on Portugal, by this time, it usually only has typically two cities (that one single island in the Atlantic and Lisboa). You must raze both and salt the earth. Portugal will throw a wrench in your plans if it ever revives.
10. If England is weak, capitalize on it and attack with the remainder of the land Euro force or the Portugal assault crew.
11. Start settling North America, slowly (Brazil is fair game too).
12. Make sure there are no cities in America's flip zone. Crush America on spawn. It is not really that great of a vassal.
13. Espionage. Espionage. Espionage. Switch their civics into bad configurations, switch their religions, and most importantly, steal tech.
14. Settle North America, Brazil, Australia, or a mix-and-match of them and set your slider on 30-40% on Culture.
Vassal Rankings for China:
S-Tier Vassals: Russia
A-Tier Vassals: Ottomans, France, Spain, Dutch
B-Tier Vassals: England, Mongolia, Arabia, India
Trap Vassals for China:
Vassals that look good on paper,
or just look good because the opportunity comes up a lot.
Indonesia, Thailand, Khmer.
Don't. Ever. Take. These. They're worthless.
I forgot to embellish my strategy in my post.
Overall, this would not be possible if you had not introduced me to your core China city setup and the Theology gambit, along with the various things you've taught me, Fresol, so I must thank you too! My setup differs in that I prefer 1 city in Manchuria, Hancheng & 1 city in Japan, instead of two; the risk of Japanese rebirth is too strong to risk any chances and the benefit of this setup is that it covers more land.
1. Squat Varanasi and search for huts
2. Get Confucianism & Taoism for 1st UHV.
3. Rush Corea on spawn (Chariots).
4. Rush Japan on spawn (CKNs).
5. Rush Mongols on spawn if they DOW you, if not, leave them alone (War Elephants + Cannons). This is a critical window of opportunity for Catherine (or Peter) to come running into your arms to protect them from the Mongol horde. Achieve 2/3 UHV; ignore Golden Age goal.
6. Do not disband conquerors; seize Huaxacayac, that is the only thing you want. Build up a small Galleon fleet.
7. Make sure you don't use any Golden Ages; it will ruin your economy in the long run.
8. Tech for Currassiers ASAP. Load up your fleet with those Currassiers and head for Portugal via your canal (Huaxacayac). Pick up additional troops from the Huaxacayac garrison.
9. While the fleet is sailing to Portugal, send about 10-12 Currassiers by land across Asia, and decide which Euro you want to kill. The qualifiers are Spain, France & HRE.
Any Euros you leave alive, set your espionage focus on the one that is the most stable and teching the fastest. Also, try to politically position it so that one of those surviving Euros might vassalize to you. Back on Portugal, by this time, it usually only has typically two cities (that one single island in the Atlantic and Lisboa). You must raze both and salt the earth. Portugal will throw a wrench in your plans if it ever revives.
10. If England is weak, capitalize on it and attack with the remainder of the land Euro force or the Portugal assault crew.
11. Start settling North America, slowly (Brazil is fair game too).
12. Make sure there are no cities in America's flip zone. Crush America on spawn. It is not really that great of a vassal.
13. Espionage. Espionage. Espionage. Switch their civics into bad configurations, switch their religions, and most importantly, steal tech.
14. Settle North America, Brazil, Australia, or a mix-and-match of them and set your slider on 30-40% on Culture.
Vassal Rankings for China:
S-Tier Vassals: Russia
A-Tier Vassals: Ottomans, France, Spain, Dutch
B-Tier Vassals: England, Mongolia, Arabia, India
Trap Vassals for China:
Vassals that look good on paper,
or just look good because the opportunity comes up a lot.
Indonesia, Thailand, Khmer.
Don't. Ever. Take. These. They're worthless.
Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Messages
- 2,207
I'd like to also post my China Domination Victory here, I'm really surprised at how much time it took, I need to focus on my work more from now on.
The game is on Monarch, Normal, 3000 BC start.
Victory screen:
I got pretty lucky early on and popped BW and The Wheel from huts, which ensured my tech lead throughout the game.
My vassals are England, France, Spain, Iran and Aztec(capitulated). The European ones are so crippled by my early privateer blockade that they can't really help me much. Well at least it ensures they do not declare war on me from time to time.
A lot of dead civs as you can see. Spain respawned once and Netherlands twice!
The power of corporations:
Stability, why is my economy not as good as what I see in other people's games?
Civics choices, well it's not the domination type combo really.
I got 2 historical goals!
The greatest cities, population are capped by health issues, but with corporations they can really grow huge:
Los Angeles is really food rich now, in this picture a grassland floodplain is shared away to Seattle:
There are some exploits I want to mention. To crush Korea, use a warrior, a galley and a settler. Settle Seoul at 70 BC and next turn let it flip, then let the warrior attack from sea. The next turn Korea will spawn 2 swordsmen and 2 horse archers, but that's all they got (no cities) and you can make peace 3-4 turns later. They may declare war on you if they don't die to the barbs, so having 1-2 units for defense is safer. As for Japan, you need warrior+galley+settler+2 crossbowmen. The difference is you settle next to Kyoto instead of right on it, and then let it flip and raze it with the warrior. The 2 crossbowmen can clear up the 2 swordsmen+archers which spawn the turn later. Don't fix it yet Leoreth!
The game is on Monarch, Normal, 3000 BC start.
Victory screen:
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
I got pretty lucky early on and popped BW and The Wheel from huts, which ensured my tech lead throughout the game.
My vassals are England, France, Spain, Iran and Aztec(capitulated). The European ones are so crippled by my early privateer blockade that they can't really help me much. Well at least it ensures they do not declare war on me from time to time.
A lot of dead civs as you can see. Spain respawned once and Netherlands twice!
Spoiler :
The power of corporations:
Spoiler :
Stability, why is my economy not as good as what I see in other people's games?
Spoiler :
Civics choices, well it's not the domination type combo really.
Spoiler :
I got 2 historical goals!
Spoiler :
The greatest cities, population are capped by health issues, but with corporations they can really grow huge:
Spoiler :
Los Angeles is really food rich now, in this picture a grassland floodplain is shared away to Seattle:
Spoiler :
There are some exploits I want to mention. To crush Korea, use a warrior, a galley and a settler. Settle Seoul at 70 BC and next turn let it flip, then let the warrior attack from sea. The next turn Korea will spawn 2 swordsmen and 2 horse archers, but that's all they got (no cities) and you can make peace 3-4 turns later. They may declare war on you if they don't die to the barbs, so having 1-2 units for defense is safer. As for Japan, you need warrior+galley+settler+2 crossbowmen. The difference is you settle next to Kyoto instead of right on it, and then let it flip and raze it with the warrior. The 2 crossbowmen can clear up the 2 swordsmen+archers which spawn the turn later. Don't fix it yet Leoreth!
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
^I'm amazed.
I'm going to give in and see what Republic+Capitalism is all about.
Also, your Economy is low because of too many Golden Ages (partially).
That looks like the current SVN version though, and not 1.81.
Should we have a separate listing for SVN wins?
I'm going to give in and see what Republic+Capitalism is all about.
Also, your Economy is low because of too many Golden Ages (partially).
That looks like the current SVN version though, and not 1.81.
Should we have a separate listing for SVN wins?
Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Messages
- 2,207
Republic+Capitalism+Cottaging is one good strategy for China, and I didn't experience great depression once in the game because of all the commerce it produces. Also I only recently learned the power of Westminster Palace + Capitalism, it allows you to hurry buildings for multiple cities in just a few turns, you really need it when settling the Americas.
I'm surprised to learn that Golden Age harms economy stability though, I had 5 of them...
I'm surprised to learn that Golden Age harms economy stability though, I had 5 of them...
Both were great games and Fresol's game gets to the list as well, because of the higher score!
It is kind of sad that you can't really utilize Golden Ages in domination games until the very end (that's why I usually have long GAs running in my winning screens), because they harm your economy stability by interrupting the steady growth. My strategy is to maybe use one GA semi-early, while you are really pushing for tech and/or saving multiple GAs to the end when you make your final push for land.
It is kind of sad that you can't really utilize Golden Ages in domination games until the very end (that's why I usually have long GAs running in my winning screens), because they harm your economy stability by interrupting the steady growth. My strategy is to maybe use one GA semi-early, while you are really pushing for tech and/or saving multiple GAs to the end when you make your final push for land.
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