DoC Domination Challenge

[Leoreth]

AAR = After Action Report. Also a thing that pirates say.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Again, what's an AAR? Everyone uses this term, but I'm still unsure of its meaning.

Anyways, if someone is interested in the strategy/tactics I used (besides the mercenaries being one of them), tell me. I don't sharing at all. In fact, this thread is one of the best for RFC: DoC because it has really good strategic thoughts and discussion. Something that parallels S&Tips subforum. One reason I played an ironman game for this thread.

Actually, yeah. I'd like to know the tech path for your Guilds slingshot.
(Actually, slingshots in general; I remember reading a slingshot guide in the Strategy & Tips subforum but I've tried searching and have not been able to find it again)
The only slingshot I know by heart is the Machinery -> Engineering slingshot,
which was possible for it's primary recepient, China, in v1.8, but no longer with the Oracle change and also because it just isn't feasible to not tech Fishing.

 

[Manco Capac]

Oh, you thought this Egypt game is the story one I presented in S&Tale. Far from it. That game there is to me totally disqualified because I reloaded to get the best of the huts. For the story purpose.

The game here is a completely new one played in ironman mode. No cheat or trying to skew the RNG to my favor. But I managed another medieval slingshot, but this time an doable one: Tech Feud==>Get CS from Oracle. All I get as techs from huts are Mysticism and Astro (and I had pretty good chances to get Astro over 7-8 huts).

The most important factor to slingshot through Oracle or Lib is to get to the era in which the desired tech is. That is why I wanted Feud (a prereq) before getting Oracle (or simultaneously).

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Right, I do recall there being a thread with a list (in Strategy & Tips/Strategy Articles) on what each GP bulbs depending on whether you possess a prerequisite tech though,
and I sadly don't know how to access it or find it, despite using both the forum search and Google.

Any techs I have to skip for the Feudalism -> Civil Service slingshot?

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Regarding some additional strategy in military, in the latest version, I think the Rifle era warfare paradigm has changed quite a bit.
Mostly because the AIs from my POV appear to tech a bit better (coupled with aggressiveness).

I used to use my GGs as Experience dumps in cities or Super-Medics,
but with the increased level of competitiveness, and the fact that
I've been sticking my GGs onto Siege; CR3 DR1 primarily, taking DR2 on hitting 27EXP
and using them as city busters which work well even at tech parity.

I used to run pure Cuirassiers, but they aren't terribly viable anymore for a number of reasons;
Vikings beeline Military Tradition and lower the tech ceiling for everyone else;
it's a tech that's available to most civs around the end of Renaissance and one that the AIs seem to prioritize a lot (it seems like they've all watched TMIT videos).
I used to build lots of Cuirassiers myself but Rifles+Cannon/Artillery is preferred for me.
The AI keep up in tech a lot better, so any advantage the Cuirassier has in tech superiority is a very small window, smaller than before that is.
I've had some terrible luck with RNG at 65-80% odds with pure Cuirassiers stacked up against Longbows or Pikes as well, even when I had the edge.

 

[blizzrd]

Right, I do recall there being a thread with a list (in Strategy & Tips/Strategy Articles) on what each GP bulbs depending on whether you possess a prerequisite tech though,
and I sadly don't know how to access it or find it, despite using both the forum search and Google.

Any techs I have to skip for the Feudalism -> Civil Service slingshot?

Try this

EDIT: Not sure if all of that applies to DoC, haven't checked. You could just give yourself an enourmous stack of whichever GP you want to try though and bulb one after the other to confirm the order I suppose.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

^Just what I was looking for!

I'm pretty sure it's the same in DoC, although come to think of it,
I just realized that no GP can bulb Patronage AFAIK as it was added to the mod instead of being a base BtS tech.

 

[Leoreth]

No, the bulb orders are only given by the flavors associated with a tech and since iirc Patronage has 10 culture, it should rank comparatively high in the GA bulb order.

BUG comes with a handy display of the bulbable techs for all GPs in the tech advisor, so that will make things easier when it's added. Actually, I think I will start with that soon, because it's probably a good idea to work on something that doesn't impact the game itself while the stability mechanics are tested and refined.

 

[Manco Capac]

^Actually, Tachywaxon's game was played on the v1.11 versions;

.....

 

[Jusos2108]

I can't load the save to find out the version, because the assets have been protected...

 

[Manco Capac]

I can't load the save to find out the version, because the assets have been protected...

Because probably you have the new SVN, which means the new set of XML files and probably python files. To load, you need the exact last version.

Lemme see anyway. I'll see in my game.

Still, didn't you accept others' game without any saves?

 

[Manco Capac]

The game itself doesn't give the version, but I found a text file in the mod folder that seems to indicate the version.

I also attached the scenario from which I played.

 

[Jusos2108]

I am at 1.11 btw.

Others knew their version. It is surprising that you didn't and that the save doesn't open for me, although it is most likely because of the locked assets. I can still put it in though just to get over it.

 

[Jusos2108]

OP updated!

I am currently listing Domination Victories also after DoC version 1.11. The ones before that will remain as a separate list, but, the victories are combined on the leaderboards!
Please note that now I also require the info about the starting scenario as well. However, different scenarios aren't listed separately, for now at least.

Hopefully everyone is satisfied with these changes? Now there is also 44 records missing...

 

[Manco Capac]

Hopefully everyone is satisfied with these changes?

As for me, I am highly satisfied.
My scenario is already shared in the form of an attachment.
It's just the regular 3000BC with Option=GAMEOPTION_LOCKS_MOD or something like that.
Yes, you need the exact same assets as me to load the game. That is probably DoC 1.10. I didn't even realized there was a version between the latest changes and the one I downloaded.

 

[Manco Capac]

STRATEGY FOR EGYPT​

A bit disappointed I admit no one is interested in the Egypt game I just finished. I thought that was a pretty good date, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Anyways, I'm tired to hold back because I want to discuss strategy.

Here how I proceeded.
I think the early game procedure is the most optimal possible.

==================================================

The original location of the capital is simply aberrant. SIP is a compete no-no (Niwt-Rst). It's one of the reason people think Egypt is a minor nation that struggles. Rule number 1 when settling is settling a location that fits short and long term. The original location is simply terrible because of the amount of FP. Knowing +0.4 :sick: per FP, IIRC, past pop 3, it's already an unhealthy city. And it is important to add a pure FP city without any mean to farm them before Bio is a bad choice for REX. Thus thanks to previous games, I knew going for the coast (Lower Egypt) is the best. Reasons:

1)Max +2 :sick:.
2)Coastal (Always good if I intend fast amphibious invasion)
3)Riverside grass WHEAT. That's real food.
4)Ancient Suez Canal.
5)Still decent in production once copper and horses are revealed.
6)A more central palace if the surrounding cities are Upper Egypt, plus the Fertile Crescent and the greek islands.

Indeed, the strongest tactic I used early game that doesn't exist anymore is the mercenary function. War Chariots are overpowered. 5 , fast mover, anti-first strike and at last the particular hidden ability to move through deserts as if that was nothing. I have no idea why that was implement along the strongest unit, but it has a critical use several times.

So I banked gold for 4 turns and waited for a WChariot. If nothing, I tried again in a new game. Ideally, I preferred the unexperienced WChariots over any else. Cheaper (21 ) and the maintenance is -2 gpt until level two. And the free XP gives one promo. Indeed, over the early game, I avoided to mass upgrade the WChariot to maintain a viable economy. But if that was forced, I upgraded, but at the last moment, so to break the contract thereafter.

Knowing the AI behavior for a long time and knowing Leoreth most probably didn't touch the inner working of AI units. So I used my initial warrior to bait one archer out of Yerushalayim to be an easy kill afterwards once the WChariot is out. While retrying for a WChariot, I got a nice lucky both WChariot (T5) and the warrior succeeded in defending at ~8%. Which meant a second archer attacked and was easy prey for the WChariot moving through desert tiles. Regarding the behaviour of those archers, in some test game before, I looked at their script and they are UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE archers, which means archers that do:
1) Retaliation most of the time against weak units (like warriors) when feeling secure (no strong units around)
2) Don't ever move around a city except escorting a settler
3)A free UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE archer will run for defending a city if roaming around
4) Never attack non-combat units like scouts, workers, missionaries, etc. (Why? Remember the abuses in Vanilla Civ...Worker baits)

Because the desert tile was considered a barrier just like a forest, the archer thought he was safe from the WChariot, but the in fact, the ability that wasn't taught to the AI unit got me an edge.

The point of all of this is the capacity to relieve the garrison early of two archers before the city cultural defenses make the attack more suicidal. And there is also another trick out of this, which is city revolt. Will return to this point later.

Once two archers are killed, most of the time, I choose medic I and try to replenish health for T10. That turn is when I can DoW Sargon of Sumeria. The goal is to kill the Ashittaru Archer at a reasonable odd of 67%-71% before the fortification makes the invasion risky. Using the AGGAI at my advantage (one thing Mod makers never realize is AGGAI is BAD!, that's not something that makes the AI stronger and more beefed up; it's an abusable gameoption), the ceasefire was easily possible because the peace deal is lowered to a third of its original value if I threaten Babilû. I did at the NE corner. If I succeed to make the ceasefire enough early, the AI will return to a peaceful build, which is a worker. That means once the worker is finished, I will conquer a city guarded by a sole warrior. Easy-peasy! If the next Ashittaru Archer is 3 turns from being finished, the CvCityAI says the AI can't revert and must finish the build and kill my whole strategy. That statement is the reason of the ridicule hard-headed AI decisions to finish a wonder even with a big stack at their door. Probably that was implemented to avoid AI tergiversation and thus never finishing their builds. Like why swapping to a new build if I'm three turns to finish my next archer.

Once the ceasefire was concluded, the WChariot healed and, while moving through Shushan surroudings, it went after China. Given the only passage is through mountains where desert tiles are bountiful, we see another use of the über WChariot.
IIRC, I conquered Cha'ang near T25-26. But that's an assumption. I would need to open the game again.

While the first WChariot goes for China, I bought another one to finish off Sargon. IIRC, that was around T23 I captured Babilû with a finished worker. Delaying the capture is best because:
1) More pillage gold
2) A free worker I won't get faster otherwise

The first strange bug I realized is I get culture within Yerushalayin for capturing Babylon. I remember that was below 10%. Makes no sense at all.
But in my casual games before, I realized once Yerushalayim revolted and joined. And that actually gave me the possibility to disband. Oh joy! That was pleasurable.

In past testing I shared in some thread over here, I discovered that discharching of Cha'ang for Independants gives me 100% culture in Yerushalayim. Strangest thing ever. No explanation for it, but I suspect the fact Cha'ang is on another continent and the lack of palace may have its reason in this.

So in the real game, I did the same while disbanding the highly promoted WChariot in Cha'ang (through the mercenary screen at all cost. I discovered if I disband with the skull buttom all addition fees to the original -2 gpt REMAIN!!!). After a while (perhaps that was around T40), it revolted and I disbanded the useless Yerushalayim. It gives nothing to the 10 cities empire and Babilû with great culture can easily do the land covering job of Yerushalayim. And the Temple of Solomon is obsoleted by Lib, which may happen fast depending of the path I take. The 10 cities limitation was the main reason. I may add it is easier to deal with the Arabs without Al-Quds.

Then the remaining WChariot took Shushan and that ended the early warring part.

Regarding the economy:

I went Pottery==>Mining==>Writing==>Alphabet.

Pottery because FP only receives cottages as improvement and I need a steep curve in my economy because it's vital in DoC for fast Dom. Otherwise, I would have stopped at AH and BW in a regular civ game.

Mining is part of my flavored strategy I dubbed the Yebu strategy.
Yebu is the city planted on the gold tile. I discovered another bug in my anterior casual game that not knowing the tech that gives the improvement means planting a city before will result in never gaining full hammer and commerce. And Yebu gives at its city square +2+2+8. It's huge! Early Mining was sine qua non in my economic peak.
Here are the reasons for Yebu:

1) On gold cost no food to get the benefits. Food is all!
2) Sub-Saharian city meaning ability to gain my own slaves. Pretty powerful when combined with Bureaucracy (of whatever the name of the hammer icon civic that gives +40% and +40% in capital that will be Babilû for obvious reasons). I netted 26-27 slaves at the end of the game in the capital combined with Ethiopia, Congo and Aztec helps. Regarding the Aztec, I could have abused the game for a long term game by giving them a stack of scouts/workers to capture and then I get my stack of slaves. I didn't try, but that may work. In some other mod called PAE, I use that trick.
3) Ultra early intercontinental trade routes for all cities! That's not negligible early!
4)Early access to Ivory and easier time to protect it from Axum empire.

=======================================

I forward a bit because the micro afterwards is unnecessary to describe, but here the main points.

My early builds in Djanet, Babilû and Shushan were workers. Given early civs get insane time of improvement, more workers were welcomed asap.

I build HG then Mids. Those are my two first wonders. I wanted initially a fast GEngineer to bulb Machinery and get free Feud slingshot, but went for another route while playing. Other wonders were those giving GProphet or GArtist . Like the Sphinx, The Babilû Gate, etc. Combined with the UHV ability of the Sphinx, GProphets and GArtists are both capable to create great works! And I got something like 60% chance each time to either get a GProphet or a GArtist. Of course, I kept them for the last phase.

I got Mysticism for free from India hut. Was not necessary but good for fast border pop. I bullied India IIRC.

Djanet culture blocked the passage of Pheonicia to get fast Cathargo. That delayed them to build wonders, especially critical ones like the Oracle.
I kept an eye on Greece to see if they get PH tech.

And semi-luckily (because it happened twice in the two long term casual game of Egypt I did), I got Feud+Oracle simultaneously I made the CS slingshot. You need to be in the medieval period before getting medieval techs for free. DoC rule. It obsoleted my beloved whip-favorable Mids, but the that was well worth.

Sadly, I don't recall without the game support, but I attacked Greece and razed most cities. I think I razed Athens and left alone for a long time the last city as independents.

Now, I dealed the Persians quite easily. I found a trick to ease the loss of Shushan to them. First, it's good to know they are not at war with Egypt instantaneously just like they are with Babylon. Given I knew Shushan was a lost cause, all I built there was either units and research. Something for the empire and not just the city itself. I did build a granary too for fast forwarding the growth and makes whips efficient.
I know per experience that Persia spawns at T84 (always dreadful date to me because it's the first civilization with an actual army and it's even more dreadful if dealing with the forces of liberation for 8 turns). Normally, when I'm at war with them right off the bat like Hammurabi, I use the ability of a WChariot and pass through the northern desertic hill to crush their first city. Given it's not under the mode of Complete Kills, just the loss of their remaining city means the armies evaporate. Yes, it respawns for the following turns, but with a decent army.
Anyways, I whipped Shushan hard before T84 and on T85 I gave it to Cyrus. Not only it makes him instantaneously happy (PLEASED), meaning I can beg for peace deals and crush his war rolls against me, but I discovered the culture pressure from now called Shush is far less impressive than accepting the flip. Later I got the partial Monarchy out of him. Good thing Monarchy is a monopolyless tech, meaning I can get it even if he is sole to possess it. Otherwise, I think he did DoWed me, but that was too late because the Roman empire did the same and protected me somehow. And the Romans reduced the army of Cyrus to naught so bad he was willing to peacevassal to me. Peacevassaling is simply enabled when the potential vassal has less than 50% of your land or pop (or both don't recall) and is under 2/3*AverageOfPower. Nothing else rules over that. Thanks Julius. Especially when I crushed him several turns later and his army flipped to Cyrus, now my vassal.
Sadly, Cyrus fell to unstability around 1000 AD. I think. I tend to recall early events and forget mid term events.

I attacked Rome and crushed it, but I did not succeed to trigger their fall before 300AD, i.e. the arrival of Byzantines occured. They were unusually easy to deal. I killed them 10 turns later. I don't recall seeing any cathapracts. Perhaps they were exploring around.

The hardest part to me is not the Turks nor the Seljuks. It's Arabia. Because it happens quite early and have no time to prepare a decent army to the waves of Bedouins. Nevertheless, I found a trick some games ago. And here comes the power of Djanet that can build galleys. I noticed (or I misinterpreted) everything in galleys including the galleys aren't flipping. Thus, I suppose the "flip zone" is landish. Now, I suspect it has to do with the core area of the newly born civ. Anyways, water regions seem safe. Thanks to Yebu location, I got some WElephants prepared and embarked into two galleys. Just like Persia and any civs, their initial army tends to idiotically move out the city, leaving few to nothing. I succeeded to get Makkah. Sadly, as Persia, their spawn spawns over few turns. They then asked for critical cities (Babilû now my cap, Djanet and Yebu). That was unbelievable. That's an automatic loss. I suppose if I hadn't moved the palace, Djanet would be discounted, but still, that's crazy of a demand. I evidently refused and got a big army next to my door. IIRC, I had my first Knights by then and since Arabia asked for Shush and the AI never refused, well, I captured it and the army vanished. Good lord!

The waves of Seljuks are, I think, the event that destabilized too much Persia. I dealt with them and helped my friend, but he succumbed. Indeed, their armies are pretty big, near to cheat according to some, knowing all remaining civs don't have to deal as harshly as Babylonia (normally ), but by 1060AD. You have time to set up a nice army. Don't move your army around now, it's not the time. Prepare for the Seljuks and Turks, then go for the world. Sadly, that triad of evil (Arabia, Alp Arslan and Turks) is the limited factor for an early dom. You can't build much beside an army to deal with them. And I think I was too lenient with the Turk spawn because I lost a bit of my army. If I knew Turks were at war with me since T0 of the spawn, that would have left me 2 turns to eradicate them. As usual, I get pants down with the Seljuks in Anatolia, but I use my sempiternal trick of worker bait to slow down the invasion of my weakly defended cities.

IIRC, between the invasion of Seljuks and the arrival of the Turks, I got Russia pants down. And I managed to capitulate Yaroslav with a minute kill count of units but the one that leaves me to capture cities. Again, capitulation is all about war success points and getting rid of the excuse "We're fine on our own!" by making Russia weak, weaker than the bench of 2/3*AveragePower. It's not that hard compared to European nations with free real armies at the edge of medieval technology.
And I got just in time to crush partially the Turks. I should have build more soldiers than wonders. But the wish for more GArtists (especially lucky ones at low odds) increase the chance of an early dom.

After the Turks, that was simply a succession of crushes where I capitulated France, Spain and got free vassal, the Moors because they lose their army abusively to barbs from Sahara. I got ethiopia before the Spawn of Arabia. Always good to have them under your wing because left unscathed compared to other nations.

In the final moments, I prepared a mass emigration of settlers and GArtist/GProphet along some sturdy escorts. One in south Africa, three in Siberia and two more in NAmerica. There was another on under the way to Autralia, but I finished before reaching it. I kinda botched the ending. I think I may had a sub-1600 if I planned better and minutely calculated the number of tiles needed.

To survive at the end, I launched a serie of GAges. Way too much as you can see in the end. Miscalculation.

That's my first dom game. As you can see from that walkthrough, I really knew what I was doing. I hate RNG screwing me around and I tend to analyze all I can.

 

[Manco Capac]

Do people want pictures too? Less scary than a wall of text.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

No, it's understandable, and I like sitting on some text because screenshots can only show the moment and not really so much the process.

 

[Oregon Lee]

It's easy dominating the world as America in the SVN. I have had completely solid stability all game, and allied Germany, Austria, and Japan and declared war on the rest of the world. I've destroyed all of Canada, Mexico, and parts of France and the Caribbean while taking in Havana, Vancouver, the Phillipines, Paris, Venezuela, and parts of the Caribbean. Still rolling. Year 1945

I also don't see incentive to change my civics to anything else, besides Standing Army and Free Trade that I adopted around 1800.

My conquest strategy is simple, mass bombers and tanks and just airlift to my vassals' cities around the world (France vassalized to me and has a foothold in every continent, except South America where I have Colombia as my vassal). The world's technology is very behind, with nobody but my allies and I having flight or industrialism in 1945.

 

[Jusos2108]

STRATEGY FOR EGYPT​

A bit disappointed I admit no one is interested in the Egypt game I just finished. I thought that was a pretty good date, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Anyways, I'm tired to hold back because I want to discuss strategy.

I am always interested in the strategies, but since you didn't provide one from the start, I thought you weren't interested in sharing yopur strategy, so I didn't push for it.

Anyways, interesting to read and good execution. Although, I am not too keen in exploiting the AI's spawn bug of moving the units out of the capital.