DocT2 - Ghandi goes Sid

[romeothemonk]

I like 2.
I should have posted one start I generated. It had all jungle except for one mountain and 2 nonbonus grasslands in the 21. It was perhaps the crappiest start I have ever seen.
I like the backs to the tudra start, as it usually means oil if we live that long.
Someone else can take the first 20. It will be a bit before I can play again. I think aggression is normal, but it might be max. So obviously we will bend over and take demands.

 

[gozpel]

Yikes, I hope it isn't max aggression. The AI sometimes ignore your little cash reserve and just run you over anyways.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

So, #2 it is, unless someone strongly objects against it in the next 12h.
Opening moves?
Worker to Cow, road+mine?
Minimum run on Writing, trade for Pottery, and dare a Philo/Lit gambit?

I'd like to start it, obvioulsy

 

[Bede]

Personally I'd water the cows, but then I'm an ol' farm boy.

Go for it.

 

[gozpel]

"Worker to Cow, road+mine?
Minimum run on Writing, trade for Pottery, and dare a Philo/Lit gambit?"

Obviously

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Ghandi goes Sid

Turn 0: 4000BC

F10: Dutch, Arabs, Mongols, French, Spanish, Sumerians, Carthaginians. Great, Alphabet isn’t worth much, but at least, Pottery should be comparably cheap.

Settle on spot, and get this:

There are Barbs!

Decide to continue for now; don’t want to pop the hut with the Worker, but when we get Yokels, I think we should dumb the start
Start Warrior and Writing.

Warrior-> Warrior
Warrior reveals another Cow NE of Delhi

3650BC
Delhi grows, Lux to 10%, Science down to 10%
IBT: Warrior-> Warrior

3550BC
IBT: Border expansion.

Ok, dumb it:

Yokels, Dutch right next door, Huts and 2 EXP Civs. Seems undoable to me.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I’ll roll some new starts.

Settings:
Standard, 60% water continents, no Barbs, climate/age random. Normal aggression, random opponents.

First roll gives an ugly tundra, non-BG start.

Then, next is:

Start 1

Save 1

Food won’t be a problem….

Then, I get a 3 COMPLETELY shield deprived starts (hardly ever seen 9 non-BGs), and a lot of worse variations of #1. Iis there a rule India starts on Flood Plains .

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Start 2

Coastal is good for contacts, 2 Wines; will most like need to move the Palace sooner or later.

Start2

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Start 3

The nice thing here is the Plains Furs – if we move the Settler there, we have an instant commerce bonus, and IIRC we should get 2spt in the city square –can someone confirm this? No food bonus, though.

Start3

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Start 4

Standard single Cow start; can’t tell if that’s Tundra, Coast or FP 2NE, but looks like Coast N.

Start4

Summary:
#1 – I’m not a big fan of FPs (now, that would be an incredible start in DyP/RaR )
#2 – Great start for a SEA Civ, but will require moving the Palace
#3- A gambit, but my favourite
#4- Save play; my second choice

 

[romeothemonk]

I like # 1.
#4 would be ok too.
Do not like the no bonus food.

 

[gozpel]

I generally dislike floodplains in the capitol, but 2 wheats to be used for 2 cities...or even 3 tight towns? But that would be some tough MM-ing. IF we are able to get dirty and MM properly, this is a good site.

I like 4, but that is tundra to NE.

2 and 3 are decent without food bonus, look weak with few shields.

Floodplains in the capitol, brrr...but I go for the first.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

I'd say we take the risk and grab all the wheat too.

#1, then #4

 

[T_McC]

There are Barbs!

Decide to continue for now; don’t want to pop the hut with the Worker, but when we get Yokels, I think we should dumb the start
...

IBT: Border expansion.

Ok, dumb it:

You do of course realize that if you didn't have any military you could not have popped barbs.

Or did you toss the start because the AI had already settled your first ring?

 

[Bede]

India, Comm/Rel, start with Alphabet. I would take the contact gambit on the seacoast with #2

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

@T_McC: Sure, but I didn't want to waste 6 Worker turns (since I moved the Worker before settling) for 25gp or a map. The Dutch near was bad, but something to expect on Sid; however, by no means I want to help the AI, especially 2 EXP Civs, with huts.

3 votes for #1, one for #2 and 3 each, one missing - nevertheless conclusive; the Floodplains it will be.

 

[T_McC]

@Doc - If your first build was a Temple or Barracks (instead of Warriors) the hut could not have popped barbs. Given that the Sid AI's start with 3 settlers each, it may even have popped a settler.

Of course if you didn't build any military the Dutch may have ended your game before the hut could be popped.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

You know, I'm an expert in having zero military from DyP/RaR (any Civ can build Scouts there); I even could convince the rest of the team to change the Curragh in RaR to 0.0.2 for that particular reason

Didn't fear any AI attack, 2 Warriors wouldn't have helped here; I just valued exploration higher (and we agreed on no barbs before anyway).

 

[gozpel]

With this pace the AI must be Modern already

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The save is here

Turn 0: 4000BC
Settle on spot. Worker to FP Wheat. We’re right next to the coast.
Opponents: Dutch, Inca, Mayans, English, Hittites, Persians, Egyptians.
20% on Writing. Start Warrior in 10.

Turn 1: 3950BC
Start road.

Turn 4: 3800BC
Road done, Science to 10%, move Worker to Rice (Delhi will be at +5fpt anyway, better get some production up).

Turn 5: 3750BC
Growth, lux to 10%.
IBT: Warrior -> Warrior

Turn 8: 3600BC
Lots of Marshes, at least one safe city spot

Turn 9: 3550BC
Growth, Lux to 30%

Turn 10: 3500BC
IBT: Warrior -> Warrior

Turn 11: 3450BC
Warrior stays for MP, Lux back to 10%

Turn 12: 3400BC
English Warrior shows up.

Turn 13: 3350BC
Buy Pottery for CB, 25gp and 3gpt. Feel safer with a per turn deal…
IBT: Warrior -> Settler

Turn 15: 3250BC
Lizzy starts Colossus.

Turn 18: 3100BC
Contact a Dutch Curragh; they’re up BW, Masonry, WC (same as English).

Turn 19: 3050BC
English settle Canterbury on the Incense SE of us.
IBT: Delhi finishes Settler timed with growth, Granary.
Amsterdam completes Colossus, English and Dutch start Pyramids.

Turn 20: 3000BC
Dutch have Wheel.

Now, where to settle?

Dotmap:

Red dot is off the river, but has no overlap with Delhi and, more important, Canterbury.
Light blue or blue?
I’d go with red first, will be a great city. Maybe get another Settler for one of the blue dots before the Granary, Delhi grows like mad anyway.
Ack, made the shot before moving a Warrior, there’s another English city S of us, no chance to expand in that direction.

Roster:
DocT - just played
gozpel - up!
Bede - on deck
SesnOfWthr
romeothemonk + DeceasedHorse - please confirm when you will be able to play

Btw, tested start #3, and I can confirm that Furs on plains will result in 2 spt in the city tile.