Does Late Chinese History is been overlook in this modding community?

MalayanGamer

Prince
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
342


You know? i have thinking a something for a very long time, isn't me or that Late Chinese History is been overlook on this civ 4 modding community? I mean... that's is shame, because Modern Chinese like the Qing dynasty and Republic of China is always fascinating to me even more than any Time periods that i saw well besides Ancient Egypt. I think the reason this time period was overlook is because most of the users in this forums are mostly from North America and Europe which means that some of them didn't know much about Late Chinese history like the Xinhai Revolution or the Warlord Era that spans from 1916 to 1928. Ok i know that i sound like being off topic here but i need address this to bring some kind of awareness to this time period that most people in this modding community never seen to interested to making a related graphic mod's for this. Heck, even South-East Asia history (well not as famous as European History) does have some content that was made by this community like a works of Bakuel. Civciv5 and many others. I hope that this period will get more recognition it deserver's in this modding community someday.
 
Indeed. Sadly the fact is that here in Europe there just aren't many if any good sources for us to learn about the period, or indeed most of east asian history aside from a very few events deemed cool enough outside of actual proper academic publications that cost a lot. Like you won't ever learn about this stuff in school or see a big documentary on TV or anything. Which is a shame. I'd love it if there were more games set in China or Japan or hell the rest of the continent that does not even get the little attention they do. If it makes you feel any better we basically do that to our own history as well. There are periods like the classical world that are criminally underrepresented.
 
Sadly the fact is that here in Europe there just aren't many if any good sources for us to learn about the period, or indeed most of east asian history aside from a very few events deemed cool enough outside of actual proper academic publications that cost a lot.
I had a book called "Europe's world history" in school because as the teacher said "it's the era of colonization meaning Europe was the world". Contained a lot of useful information for colonization modding, but not a single word on Asia at all. If ti really tried to educate on the consequences of Europeans arriving all over the world, then why are big events like Japan banning foreigners for more than two centuries completely missed? Honestly despite being well educated, I learned most history after graduation.

Modern Chinese like the Qing dynasty and Republic of China
some of them didn't know much about Late Chinese history like the Xinhai Revolution or the Warlord Era that spans from 1916 to 1928.
Sorry, but I have no clue to what you are talking about, except PRC, which is current politics rather than history. Never heard of this before, but I suppose that just proofs your point.

I hope that this period will get more recognition it deserver's in this modding community someday.
I hope some day we will get more skilled modders working on our wish list. It's already much longer than a child's list to Santa.
 
Sorry, but I have no clue to what you are talking about, except PRC, which is current politics rather than history. Never heard of this before, but I suppose that just proofs your point.
My knowledge of this period is limited so hopefully someone who knows more like MalayanGamer can correct me and fill in the gaps. But as far as I understand the long story short of it is:

At the end of the 19th century China was in a really bad place The largest and most populous nation on earth was repeatedly beaten, humiliated and generally ruined by an alliance of western powers to the point where the imperial government and indeed the very institution of empire lost all legitimacy. Part of that was not one but two wars lead for the explicit purpose of forcing China to import western drugs into the country. Predictably this lead to a period of revolutionary activity which, in 1911 finally managed to throw the empire out and replace it with a republic. Only things are newer that simple.

You see, the way the late empire worked, and the reason why the wars went so badly in the first place is because the emperors thought it would be a really good idea to not have a standing army and instead just have each regional governor raise his own armies in prime feudalism style. I am sure it was more complicated than that but that's basically how I understand it. Now that's great for stability because an insecure ruler who wants to can play these subject warlords off against one another. It's really bad for literally everything else. Like say fighting an alliance of western powers with superior weaponry. In fact, as far as I understand the reason why the revolution succeeded in the first place was basically because they managed to get a number of these guys on their side by promising them more power.
This included one guy that was in control of Beijing who demanded they make him the president before he would join them. They did, he did his thing for a couple years and than decided to declare him self Emperor which literally nobody, his men included supported so everyone just told him to sit down and shut up so he abdicated and kept on doing his thing as a rich guy with no power until he was old. I think he later went into politics or something later in the post exile ROC. Not sure. Anyway.

Predictably what followed was basically a period of "republic" where these warlords essentially ruled their own territories like despots only nominally paying homage to the central government. Except when they didn't because like all of North and East China was its own thing and the republic under that one guy I mentioned and Chang had to fight wars to subjugate those regions to get them to do even that. Oh, and the Japanese just walked in and took all of Manchuria almost without a fight some time during that period. Because sure, why not. Anyway it was basically a mess. And it was a mess that lasted up until the 1920's when they added a communist movement and an anti communist civil war to the mix because they saw the world was doing it and thought they had to keep up I guess.

And this sort of feudalistic warlord system pretty much continued up until the Japanese invasion in the 1930's when Chang finally managed to convince everyone to at least stand together against the Japanese. Only it didn't because obviously they were still shooting at each other (especially Chang vs Mao) but only like less and only when they weren't also shooting at the Japanese. So that's a bonus I guess. And it worked well enough that the Japanese were stopped dead and held there for almost a decade until the real world powers came along and told them to sit down and shut up.And than the war ended, the Soviets invaded Japanese held Manchuria and drove them off the continent. Than they wheeled around and gave all their equipment, training and friendship to Mao and told him "go get them tiger'. So he did. Chang fled to an island off the coast where he set up his little republic and spent the rest of his life balancing between trying to convince america to fund an invasion of China in his name and not being so pushy that they get annoyed and let the communists invade. And the rest is history.
 
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PPQ:
Your sumery sounds like a real Civ4 player: "So they followed this outdated civic because they just forgot to change it. Than they researched this tech and adopted this new civic because half of the world did so and they also wanted to try it." :lol:
 
I also don't know a lot of details, but Warlords period until the founding and consolidation of the PRC would make for a great Civ4 scenario. It has all the requirements, multiple factions of comparable strength with different possible outcomes, alternate history potential (Nationalist China, Qing restoration, Japanese conquest ...). If only we had a beautiful large map of China as a starting point.

I guess the only risk is having your mod banned in China for not making the victory of the glorious PRC a foregone conclusion.
 
I also don't know a lot of details, but Warlords period until the founding and consolidation of the PRC would make for a great Civ4 scenario. It has all the requirements, multiple factions of comparable strength with different possible outcomes, alternate history potential (Nationalist China, Qing restoration, Japanese conquest ...). If only we had a beautiful large map of China as a starting point.

I guess the only risk is having your mod banned in China for not making the victory of the glorious PRC a foregone conclusion.
Infact. I have started a project as a respont to ramzay1945 upcoming Russian Civil War mod called "Eight Years Wars of Resistance". You can check it out right now.
 
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