Senethro
Overlord
Lol read your own post! You're framing it as a free speech issue! Its not. You're already free to say it. You are permitted to be impolite and be regarded as impolite.
Does Race exist?
- Thread starter H4run
- Start date
Lol read your own post! You're framing it as a free speech issue! Its not. You're already free to say it. You are permitted to be impolite and be regarded as impolite.
Berzerker
Deity
sounds like Admiral Stockdale in the VP debate in '92
brennan
Argumentative Brit
"I'll tell you what you mean, thank you very much!"
I don't.
"I think if there are taboo words, they should be taboo for everyone" is not about free speech, it's about discrimination.
Senethro
Overlord
No, its not. Its about politeness.
Preventing someone from speaking/participating in society due to their ethnicity is systemic racial discrimination (stated in full because its the kind that matters).
Your political/economic rights are not damaged by being unwilling to say the word when you will be regarded as impolite. Say it, or don't.
Alternatively, make an argument for changing the standards of politeness.
Preventing someone from speaking/participating in society due to their ethnicity is systemic racial discrimination (stated in full because its the kind that matters).
Your political/economic rights are not damaged by being unwilling to say the word when you will be regarded as impolite. Say it, or don't.
Alternatively, make an argument for changing the standards of politeness.
I'm not concerned about right to say n-word in public. It's about social norm, when polite/impolite depends on the skin color of the speaker.
I'm not asking if there is a derogatory use of the word, we all know there is. But I am noting that there is a set of social conditions under which the word is used. Sometimes it's acceptable, sometimes it's marginal, and sometimes it's unacceptable. Nine times out of ten, I can easily figure out whether the usage is acceptable or deserves social censure
I'm not discussing the social rule, I only brought it up because it is one that is broadly understood
What I don't have is a name for this set of categories that I'm applying. When I look at the group having the discussion, I'm looking at their [factor] before I figure out how the censure rule is applied.
I'm not discussing the social rule, I only brought it up because it is one that is broadly understood
What I don't have is a name for this set of categories that I'm applying. When I look at the group having the discussion, I'm looking at their [factor] before I figure out how the censure rule is applied.
Senethro
Overlord
k, so why should the social norm be changed?
My suggestion of Estimated race(abrogated) was completely serious. You don't want something too wieldy because its not intended to be used.
It's up to US people, to decide whether they are ok with racist social norms or not.
Senethro
Overlord
Depends what you mean by racist. Like, having a racist ideology? As a shorthand for racial discrimination? As a shorthand for systemic racial discrimination? The first and third are pretty much always bad, the second needs a demonstrable harm shown. I don't think the first and third are a good fit and you haven't shown a demonstrable harm, so I don't see a reason to act.
Also, consider the optics of white (er(a)) america trying to tell black(er(a)) america not to use a word because its racist. Just think about it. Let me know when you're done.
My opinion is that using racist slurs is not ok, even for black people.
Dividing america on black and white is not ok either.
The way things stand, though, it isn't really helpful for black people themselves to keep using the n word all the time (eg rap videos or movies). Imo, anyway.
Can't depower a term if at the same time you identify it as being very powerful if used by non-blacks. I think the approach is problematic, but i do not have a solution. And it should go without saying that even if words go into misuse (as Amazon Queen also noted) a person meaning to term you in a racist way will find a new word if you are sensitive to this.
Having to translate Lovecraft i came across a number of slurs i didn't know existed, and possibly at least some of them are not in use by now
Senethro
Overlord
why tho
i don't think it fits the definition of harmful racial discrimination
compare - sikhs in uk being allowed to carry knives - racist under your definition but really kind of stupid to care about
I agree.
Don't know. Whether racist slurs should be considered harmful racial discrimination or not, is a separate question.
Senethro
Overlord
But it isn't a slur in some peoples mouths
Senethro
Overlord
Hmmmmm......
It is in others', but whether it's socially acceptable is still a function of the Estimated Race (abrogated) of the participants
What are the rules to determine whether it was a slur or not?
Should the person be 'pure black' to say it without being rude, or mixed race allowed too?
Senethro
Overlord
You should judge it by the estimated race(abrogated)(American context) of the person. Probably. Depending on other factors.
And what if two people disagree on the "estimated race" of each other or politeness of this word in current context?
I hope you can see why this can be problematic.
