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Does Race exist?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by haroon, May 8, 2019.

  1. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    Unless we clear this thing up I think this will always drag our race related discussion more to the subtopic than the main topic.

    I also invites other that I know enthusiast on discussing this topic @Angst and @Peuri

    Let me start the discussion by asking you, the reader's, opinion about three things:

    1. Does Race exist and has its reference/basis in reality?
    2. Are we agreed that many variable can be racialized?
    3. If any neutral, non race variable (despite race itself exist or not in reality) suffers racism and being treat like one, can it declare itself as a victim of racism despite it is not being a race?
     
  2. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    One of the first things I was taught in my anthropology classes in college is that we are all HUMAN. "Race" is merely a matter of culture and minor genetic variation that in no way prevents humans from one region of the planet from interbreeding with humans from other regions of the planet.

    And it annoys me greatly when I'm asked on some survey or census form what "racial background" I have. I realize that they really want to know if I have First Nations status (a whole different set of rules can kick in if I answer "yes" to that), so why not just ask that, and if they want to know about recent(ish) immigrants/refugees, just ask if someone was born in Canada or elsewhere, and if the answer is elsewhere, ask where, and when they came to Canada.
     
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  3. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup A Shadow for the Warrior

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    Do you mean race like Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals ? Or more like glorious PC gaming master race overlords of Burger King ?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  4. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    Completely agree with you, race is a social construct, it is doesn't has any reality in itself it is in our mind.

    However if race does not exist can someone become racist? can someone inherit a behavior of discriminating something that is not exist to begin with?


    I mean like European, Asian, etc. What do you think?
     
  5. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup A Shadow for the Warrior

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    If someone is racist, it is because of his own belief that races can distinguish between people. It doesn't matter whether his belief is grounded in reality or not :)
    Someone who is victim of racism is a person who is discriminated against on the basis of certain racial opinions. Those opinions are those of the discriminant alone.
    XIXth century European science tried to support racial theories. Didn't work. It's a sour soup of hateful, self-serving blah blah blah and the scientific aspect is only a pretense.

    Discrimination, xenophobia, chauvinism, prejudice and more can exist without appealing to the notion of race.
    The very term "race" isn't used in my language, at all, except for dogs and horses. I'm always stunned at how widespread it is in English.
     
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  6. Cloud_Strife

    Cloud_Strife Chieftain

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    Racism is essentially a social construct to divide people
     
  7. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    I cannot agree more with you. Even though race is not exist, but that doesn't meant racism and racist do not exist, because racism and racist are not depend on the existence of "race" itself, but it is depend on the discriminatory acts that its employed.

    In this case it is possible to be racist to "blue colored eyes people"
    It is possible to be racist to "red hair" people
    It is possible to be racist to "communist"
    It is possible to be racist to "Muslim"

    Because it is not the victim that defined racism, it is the preparator and the acts.

    Interesting, equivalent word for race are only for animal but not for human, what is your native language?

    my native language actually also don't have word for race, we borrowed it from English, there is no equivalent for that word in our language.
     
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  8. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Like class or caste.
    Its certainly possible to treat people as inferior because of assumptions or beliefs about race, even if race has no basis in biology, so yes, people can be racist because they are making judgements based on false ideas.
     
  9. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    People who think race is not just a social construct are so dumb they can't even define race.
     
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  10. Cloud_Strife

    Cloud_Strife Chieftain

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    Not only that but it's fluid; even the founding fathers of America couldn’t Agree on whether the Germans, French etc were white
     
  11. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

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    Social classification of people by their appearance must be abolished, because it leads to discrimination. Doesn't matter whether discrimination is positive or negative, both are wrong.
    Concept of human races serves very narrow purpose and should be left to biologists and medics.
     
  12. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    What on earth did they think they were, then? :huh: If you go by skin color, of course most of them would have been white.

    But if you're going by skin color, underneath all that black hair, my cat's skin color is the same as mine (I'm blonde, blue-eyed, white-skinned Swedish-Norwegian by physical looks/ethnic background; it's too soon to consider myself "ethnically Canadian" because of how recently my preceding family members came over from Europe).

    Of course Maddy is a cat and I'm human, so even if one of us were male, we would still not be able to breed. But we have the same skin color.
     
  13. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    We all bleed red blood.

    Except ofc nobility who have blue blood.

    The use of the words "blue blood" for nobility in English books emerged in 1800 and peaked in 1880 (around the same time that words like civilisation and civilised start their peak)
    "blue blood" (Sangre Azul) was invented by the Royal Spanish family to make clear they were of "true" Visigothic descent in order to differentiate themselves from the Moors in Spain who were not.
    From Google Books N-Gram viewer the English frequency rates of some relevant words for this dicussion.
    https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=blue+blood,civil+rights,racism,racialism,nationalism,civilisation,discrimination,civilised&year_start=1500&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1;,blue blood;,c0;.t1;,civil rights;,c0;.t1;,racism;,c0;.t1;,racialism;,c0;.t1;,nationalism;,c0;.t1;,civilisation;,c0;.t1;,discrimination;,c0;.t1;,civilised;,c0#t1;,blue blood;,c0;.t1;,civil rights;,c0;.t1;,racism;,c0;.t1;,racialism;,c0;.t1;,nationalism;,c0;.t1;,civilisation;,c0;.t1;,discrimination;,c0;.t1;,civilised;,c0

    EDIT:
    Here another graph with frequencies on the words "race", "culture", "natural" and "nature" added.
    You can see that these words are becoming important around 1720-1750. The start of the enlightenment.
    https://books.google.com/ngrams/gra...c0;.t1;,discrimination;,c0;.t1;,civilised;,c0
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  14. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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  15. Cloud_Strife

    Cloud_Strife Chieftain

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    From Benjamin Franklin:

    Race has never been static, indeed look at Italians and the Irish, both of whom were considered distinct from "whiteness" but are now both incorporated into the American-centric view of Europe being a "white bloc"
     
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  16. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup A Shadow for the Warrior

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    Yes. In the beginning, Holy Spain worked soulless Indians in its South American mines.
    When the Indians were granted a soul, it became desirable to justify the benevolent European Imperium by other means than faith alone.
    Hence racism.
    It is directly a medium for European Empires - mostly France and Great Britain - to justify their exploitation of foreign lands/people.
    Note that this legitimation goes two ways : it is targeted at the European peoples and at the colonized ones.

    When racism tore Europe apart, we started to see things differently.
    In some of the most backwards places of the world, like the USA or Brazil, racism has become institutionalized and is inscripted on your ID card.
    edit : and to be fair, in places where it is not institutionalized, racism can be found at large, in a rampant, latent manner, without ever the word race being mentionned. What yung.carl.jung referred to as "they really hate the brown". They won't claim it's a racial thing.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  17. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy I swear..

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    Because the whole thing is dumb. Microcosm up to the whole. It just needs people spanking their meat about it nonstop and then it's the thing everybody spanks their meat to.

    I mean, finding reasons you're better than those other r-***** is kind of basic *****, but "because muh balls" is a particularly ratchet way to be lacking in this fashion.
     
  18. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    Your English is like the 90s Micheal Jordan for my English, when he grow he just want to be as OP as yours

     
  19. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy I swear..

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    Lol! Thanks, but if we're going to be real about it, it's really more like:

    Spoiler :
     
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  20. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    ugh that hurts

    those accident happened time to time, as long as it is not this though

    Spoiler Warning Violence :
     

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