"Don't Cry for me Argentina!"

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JohannaK said:
Precisely, I prefer EU4 partially because the mana system diverts from the ludicrously single-minded gold slider system.

Also I am not saying that they should release those features when they are not ready, but that more substantial expansion packs would also be more satisfying. Certainly my wording was terrible.
Click to expand...

Actually I agree with you here - the expansions should be much more wholesome that they are. A few iron man-incompatible custom features in the options menu, for example, could be very welcome, and allow for more content being put out without a real problem if it's slightly undercooked.

Daftpanzer said:
I'd like to backtrack a little on my rant (disclaimer: I was stuck at home with flu and bored :o )

I do agree with Angst, it is good that EU4 is still being developed (and I definitely prefer the graphics style), even if the DLC situation is a little confused, and prohibitively expensive to buy the lot outside of a steam sale.
Click to expand...

I do agree with you however in the sense that currently there's a *massive* paywall for people that want to get into EU4 or people that play it rarely. As it is bad for new players, it's bad for their business. It's good they have the enfranchised playerbase they have as it works with the policy - and due to the game's nature, it being slightly unintuitive to get into may not be a problem, seeing as the game is really complicated to begin with. But I do hold that unnecessary complexity or inconvenience is dangerous to both consumers and businesses. Of course you can revert to previous patches at will, but it isn't the optimal system... Optimal system would be to manually deactivate individual features ingame (such as the new buildings/forts system being terrible if you don't have the proper DLC).

The fact that the Aztecs *will* be free in CIV6 is good, but still I dislike the encouragement of pre-orders, even for a dev team with a generally good track record.

#freeMontezuma
Click to expand...

Completely agree with this. Have to say though that even if this is a terrible policy, it's much more edible for me than what they did with the Chaos faction in Total War for example. So bad, but not the worst, and better, to me, than the standard DLC policies.
 
The Civ6 DLC is pretty scummy, but not the scummiest thing out there. Firaxis hasn't gone full Paradox for example.

Also I completely agree with the sentiment that is echoed by the people here about Paradox games. I would enjoy them a lot more if they stopped pretending to support the vanilla version of the game and just release more polished expansion packs at a slower rate rather than pooping out a rushed DLC once every two months and overcharging us for it.
 
The Civ6 DLC is pretty scummy, but not the scummiest thing out there. Firaxis hasn't gone full Paradox for example.
Click to expand...

I'm actually not 100% sure how preorder-walling the Aztecs for sixty days isn't far scummier than anything Paradox could think of. It would be like preorder-walling France in EUV for two months.

overcharging us for it.
Click to expand...

No one is being overcharged.

As it is bad for new players, it's bad for their business.
Click to expand...

It really, really isn't. When consumers tell people that what a business is doing is bad for business, they almost always do it from their own shoes and not from the shoes of company decision makers.

If the DLC was bad for business, they wouldn't keep doing them and they wouldn't be making so much money. Same in Payday 2. Same in Sims 1, 2, 3, and 4. Same for a lot of games. "Paywalling" out new customers is not an issue because it is extremely easy to wait for a sale and pick up the base game and every major DLC, assuming a deep sale, for $38.75. GSG is a niche, niche genre. It isn't as if somebody who wants an EUIV-like experience actually has options, and $38.75 for that experience is really a low bar to admission all things considered.

It is only a bad business decision when there are alternatives that are even close to the polish and quality of Paradox GSGs, but there isn't. The only main Paradox game with that issue potentially right now is Stellaris, but they haven't been gung-ho with pumping out DLC with that game (yet).
 
My biggest issue with Civ VI is its eurocentrism, but other than that I am hyped, hell I preordered on steam a long time ago, and when they announced the Anniversary Edition, i grabbed it through amazon and canceled the steam preorder, the best part is that since I have prime, I got the Anniversary Edition for cheaper than the steam preorder :D
 
Terran Empress said:
My biggest issue with Civ eurocentrism
Click to expand...

Me too, thanks.

Spoiler :
As I had promised to myself and to you, after starting the original thread I stepped away almost completely from the topic of NES and just decided to wait for the final verdict without participating in the flame wars. After the NES murder of several prominent IOTs I believe I must state this case again. Why? Mostly because many people thought that my problem lies with the fictional unification of NES and IOT under one NESIOT banner. It's not so.

Many comments around the Internet about the flame wars stated that it is "the effect/pinnacle/what-we-should-expect-from IOT culture". These comments gathered huge support and I was shocked. Then I remembered the thread I'm continuing here and the reason for it. Reason for the thread, of course, and not for the whole wide issue. IOTers are depicted as NES, ergo all IOTers are blamed for NES crimes, even though they were commited while waging flame wars on us. Insane? Insane.

So, this is my appeal to you, not exactly an invitation to discussion. I just want to highlight the issue I believe to be very serious.

To put it bluntly:
Not all Action Chatrooms are about superheroes, shipping, and elves; only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are soulless numbercruching robots, only a small margin.
Not all moderators are circling this forum trying to crush us, only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are NESers, only a small margin.

NESIOT in its current state promotes the stereotype. It would be an act of decency to either strip the references to NES, which is not a bad thing by itself for a fictional entity, or preferably eliminate the huge equality sign between IOTers and NESers. I oppose the unification of NESIOT on the grounds that it is NES and with all the elements of NES and NES culture, the subforum yells that IOT = NES.

As I had promised to myself and to you, after starting the original thread I stepped away almost completely from the topic of NES and just decided to wait for the final verdict without participating in the flame wars. After the NES murder of several prominent IOTs I believe I must state this case again. Why? Mostly because many people thought that my problem lies with the fictional unification of NES and IOT under one NESIOT banner. It's not so.

Many comments around the Internet about the flame wars stated that it is "the effect/pinnacle/what-we-should-expect-from IOT culture". These comments gathered huge support and I was shocked. Then I remembered the thread I'm continuing here and the reason for it. Reason for the thread, of course, and not for the whole wide issue. IOTers are depicted as NES, ergo all IOTers are blamed for NES crimes, even though they were commited while waging flame wars on us. Insane? Insane.

So, this is my appeal to you, not exactly an invitation to discussion. I just want to highlight the issue I believe to be very serious.

To put it bluntly:
Not all Action Chatrooms are about superheroes, shipping, and elves; only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are soulless numbercruching robots, only a small margin.
Not all moderators are circling this forum trying to crush us, only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are NESers, only a small margin.

NESIOT in its current state promotes the stereotype. It would be an act of decency to either strip the references to NES, which is not a bad thing by itself for a fictional entity, or preferably eliminate the huge equality sign between IOTers and NESers. I oppose the unification of NESIOT on the grounds that it is NES and with all the elements of NES and NES culture, the subforum yells that IOT = NES.

As I had promised to myself and to you, after starting the original thread I stepped away almost completely from the topic of NES and just decided to wait for the final verdict without participating in the flame wars. After the NES murder of several prominent IOTs I believe I must state this case again. Why? Mostly because many people thought that my problem lies with the fictional unification of NES and IOT under one NESIOT banner. It's not so.

Many comments around the Internet about the flame wars stated that it is "the effect/pinnacle/what-we-should-expect-from IOT culture". These comments gathered huge support and I was shocked. Then I remembered the thread I'm continuing here and the reason for it. Reason for the thread, of course, and not for the whole wide issue. IOTers are depicted as NES, ergo all IOTers are blamed for NES crimes, even though they were commited while waging flame wars on us. Insane? Insane.

So, this is my appeal to you, not exactly an invitation to discussion. I just want to highlight the issue I believe to be very serious.

To put it bluntly:
Not all Action Chatrooms are about superheroes, shipping, and elves; only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are soulless numbercruching robots, only a small margin.
Not all moderators are circling this forum trying to crush us, only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are NESers, only a small margin.

NESIOT in its current state promotes the stereotype. It would be an act of decency to either strip the references to NES, which is not a bad thing by itself for a fictional entity, or preferably eliminate the huge equality sign between IOTers and NESers. I oppose the unification of NESIOT on the grounds that it is NES and with all the elements of NES and NES culture, the subforum yells that IOT = NES.

As I had promised to myself and to you, after starting the original thread I stepped away almost completely from the topic of NES and just decided to wait for the final verdict without participating in the flame wars. After the NES murder of several prominent IOTs I believe I must state this case again. Why? Mostly because many people thought that my problem lies with the fictional unification of NES and IOT under one NESIOT banner. It's not so.

Many comments around the Internet about the flame wars stated that it is "the effect/pinnacle/what-we-should-expect-from IOT culture". These comments gathered huge support and I was shocked. Then I remembered the thread I'm continuing here and the reason for it. Reason for the thread, of course, and not for the whole wide issue. IOTers are depicted as NES, ergo all IOTers are blamed for NES crimes, even though they were commited while waging flame wars on us. Insane? Insane.

So, this is my appeal to you, not exactly an invitation to discussion. I just want to highlight the issue I believe to be very serious.

To put it bluntly:
Not all Action Chatrooms are about superheroes, shipping, and elves; only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are soulless numbercruching robots, only a small margin.
Not all moderators are circling this forum trying to crush us, only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are NESers, only a small margin.

NESIOT in its current state promotes the stereotype. It would be an act of decency to either strip the references to NES, which is not a bad thing by itself for a fictional entity, or preferably eliminate the huge equality sign between IOTers and NESers. I oppose the unification of NESIOT on the grounds that it is NES and with all the elements of NES and NES culture, the subforum yells that IOT = NES.

As I had promised to myself and to you, after starting the original thread I stepped away almost completely from the topic of NES and just decided to wait for the final verdict without participating in the flame wars. After the NES murder of several prominent IOTs I believe I must state this case again. Why? Mostly because many people thought that my problem lies with the fictional unification of NES and IOT under one NESIOT banner. It's not so.

Many comments around the Internet about the flame wars stated that it is "the effect/pinnacle/what-we-should-expect-from IOT culture". These comments gathered huge support and I was shocked. Then I remembered the thread I'm continuing here and the reason for it. Reason for the thread, of course, and not for the whole wide issue. IOTers are depicted as NES, ergo all IOTers are blamed for NES crimes, even though they were commited while waging flame wars on us. Insane? Insane.

So, this is my appeal to you, not exactly an invitation to discussion. I just want to highlight the issue I believe to be very serious.

To put it bluntly:
Not all Action Chatrooms are about superheroes, shipping, and elves; only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are soulless numbercruching robots, only a small margin.
Not all moderators are circling this forum trying to crush us, only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are NESers, only a small margin.

NESIOT in its current state promotes the stereotype. It would be an act of decency to either strip the references to NES, which is not a bad thing by itself for a fictional entity, or preferably eliminate the huge equality sign between IOTers and NESers. I oppose the unification of NESIOT on the grounds that it is NES and with all the elements of NES and NES culture, the subforum yells that IOT = NES.

As I had promised to myself and to you, after starting the original thread I stepped away almost completely from the topic of NES and just decided to wait for the final verdict without participating in the flame wars. After the NES murder of several prominent IOTs I believe I must state this case again. Why? Mostly because many people thought that my problem lies with the fictional unification of NES and IOT under one NESIOT banner. It's not so.

Many comments around the Internet about the flame wars stated that it is "the effect/pinnacle/what-we-should-expect-from IOT culture". These comments gathered huge support and I was shocked. Then I remembered the thread I'm continuing here and the reason for it. Reason for the thread, of course, and not for the whole wide issue. IOTers are depicted as NES, ergo all IOTers are blamed for NES crimes, even though they were commited while waging flame wars on us. Insane? Insane.

So, this is my appeal to you, not exactly an invitation to discussion. I just want to highlight the issue I believe to be very serious.

To put it bluntly:
Not all Action Chatrooms are about superheroes, shipping, and elves; only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are soulless numbercruching robots, only a small margin.
Not all moderators are circling this forum trying to crush us, only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are NESers, only a small margin.

NESIOT in its current state promotes the stereotype. It would be an act of decency to either strip the references to NES, which is not a bad thing by itself for a fictional entity, or preferably eliminate the huge equality sign between IOTers and NESers. I oppose the unification of NESIOT on the grounds that it is NES and with all the elements of NES and NES culture, the subforum yells that IOT = NES.

As I had promised to myself and to you, after starting the original thread I stepped away almost completely from the topic of NES and just decided to wait for the final verdict without participating in the flame wars. After the NES murder of several prominent IOTs I believe I must state this case again. Why? Mostly because many people thought that my problem lies with the fictional unification of NES and IOT under one NESIOT banner. It's not so.

Many comments around the Internet about the flame wars stated that it is "the effect/pinnacle/what-we-should-expect-from IOT culture". These comments gathered huge support and I was shocked. Then I remembered the thread I'm continuing here and the reason for it. Reason for the thread, of course, and not for the whole wide issue. IOTers are depicted as NES, ergo all IOTers are blamed for NES crimes, even though they were commited while waging flame wars on us. Insane? Insane.

So, this is my appeal to you, not exactly an invitation to discussion. I just want to highlight the issue I believe to be very serious.

To put it bluntly:
Not all Action Chatrooms are about superheroes, shipping, and elves; only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are soulless numbercruching robots, only a small margin.
Not all moderators are circling this forum trying to crush us, only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are NESers, only a small margin.

NESIOT in its current state promotes the stereotype. It would be an act of decency to either strip the references to NES, which is not a bad thing by itself for a fictional entity, or preferably eliminate the huge equality sign between IOTers and NESers. I oppose the unification of NESIOT on the grounds that it is NES and with all the elements of NES and NES culture, the subforum yells that IOT = NES.

As I had promised to myself and to you, after starting the original thread I stepped away almost completely from the topic of NES and just decided to wait for the final verdict without participating in the flame wars. After the NES murder of several prominent IOTs I believe I must state this case again. Why? Mostly because many people thought that my problem lies with the fictional unification of NES and IOT under one NESIOT banner. It's not so.

Many comments around the Internet about the flame wars stated that it is "the effect/pinnacle/what-we-should-expect-from IOT culture". These comments gathered huge support and I was shocked. Then I remembered the thread I'm continuing here and the reason for it. Reason for the thread, of course, and not for the whole wide issue. IOTers are depicted as NES, ergo all IOTers are blamed for NES crimes, even though they were commited while waging flame wars on us. Insane? Insane.

So, this is my appeal to you, not exactly an invitation to discussion. I just want to highlight the issue I believe to be very serious.

To put it bluntly:
Not all Action Chatrooms are about superheroes, shipping, and elves; only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are soulless numbercruching robots, only a small margin.
Not all moderators are circling this forum trying to crush us, only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are NESers, only a small margin.

NESIOT in its current state promotes the stereotype. It would be an act of decency to either strip the references to NES, which is not a bad thing by itself for a fictional entity, or preferably eliminate the huge equality sign between IOTers and NESers. I oppose the unification of NESIOT on the grounds that it is NES and with all the elements of NES and NES culture, the subforum yells that IOT = NES.

As I had promised to myself and to you, after starting the original thread I stepped away almost completely from the topic of NES and just decided to wait for the final verdict without participating in the flame wars. After the NES murder of several prominent IOTs I believe I must state this case again. Why? Mostly because many people thought that my problem lies with the fictional unification of NES and IOT under one NESIOT banner. It's not so.

Many comments around the Internet about the flame wars stated that it is "the effect/pinnacle/what-we-should-expect-from IOT culture". These comments gathered huge support and I was shocked. Then I remembered the thread I'm continuing here and the reason for it. Reason for the thread, of course, and not for the whole wide issue. IOTers are depicted as NES, ergo all IOTers are blamed for NES crimes, even though they were commited while waging flame wars on us. Insane? Insane.

So, this is my appeal to you, not exactly an invitation to discussion. I just want to highlight the issue I believe to be very serious.

To put it bluntly:
Not all Action Chatrooms are about superheroes, shipping, and elves; only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are soulless numbercruching robots, only a small margin.
Not all moderators are circling this forum trying to crush us, only a small margin.
Not all IOTers are NESers, only a small margin.

NESIOT in its current state promotes the stereotype. It would be an act of decency to either strip the references to NES, which is not a bad thing by itself for a fictional entity, or preferably eliminate the huge equality sign between IOTers and NESers. I oppose the unification of NESIOT on the grounds that it is NES and with all the elements of NES and NES culture, the subforum yells that IOT = NES.
 
Sonereal said:
I'm actually not 100% sure how preorder-walling the Aztecs for sixty days isn't far scummier than anything Paradox could think of. It would be like preorder-walling France in EUV for two months.



No one is being overcharged.



It really, really isn't. When consumers tell people that what a business is doing is bad for business, they almost always do it from their own shoes and not from the shoes of company decision makers.

If the DLC was bad for business, they wouldn't keep doing them and they wouldn't be making so much money. Same in Payday 2. Same in Sims 1, 2, 3, and 4. Same for a lot of games. "Paywalling" out new customers is not an issue because it is extremely easy to wait for a sale and pick up the base game and every major DLC, assuming a deep sale, for $38.75. GSG is a niche, niche genre. It isn't as if somebody who wants an EUIV-like experience actually has options, and $38.75 for that experience is really a low bar to admission all things considered.

It is only a bad business decision when there are alternatives that are even close to the polish and quality of Paradox GSGs, but there isn't. The only main Paradox game with that issue potentially right now is Stellaris, but they haven't been gung-ho with pumping out DLC with that game (yet).
Click to expand...

I did note that the consumers in question probably were enfranchised enough for their business model not being that huge a problem, but every time a business does overcomplicated stuff, that business loses some sales. We have Daft himself in question here. I also know people outside the forum that haven't bought the game for similar reasons. With the crowd in question their practice may be cost effective enough to work out however. But it's documented several places that lack of streamlining transactions does lose sales.

I do agree however and again I don't actually find them scummy. I like their continued support.
 
I dunno. A preorder bonus that I'm guaranteed to get for free if I wait is annoying. Hundreds of dollars of DLC is actually a problem.

Not that I've touched either franchise in a long time, but you know, if I were to again.
 
CivOasis said:
I dunno. A preorder bonus that I'm guaranteed to get for free if I wait is annoying. Hundreds of dollars of DLC is actually a problem.
Click to expand...

All major EUIV DLC discounted is only $40, including base game. All major CK2 DLC + base game is $43.25 during a sale.

I did note that the consumers in question probably were enfranchised enough for their business model not being that huge a problem, but every time a business does overcomplicated stuff, that business loses some sales.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

But it's documented several places that lack of streamlining transactions does lose sales.
Click to expand...

To be honest, Paradox should really bundle together the major DLCs so that they're easy to find and buy. For a person looking at CK2 for the first time, $40 + over $200 in DLC sounds like a lot. The problem is that a lot of those DLC packs are cosmetic and create a giant list of DLC on the store page.

Paradox would really benefit from creating bundles and calling them "expansion packs". They would still be released piecemeal, but after enough is released, they could create a bundle. For example,

Sword of Islam: $10
Legacy of Rome: $5
Sunset Invasion: $5
The Republic: $10
Total: $30

After the Republic was released, they could have bundled all three of these together into an expansion bundle, make the base cost of the bundle $25, and save a lot of new players a lot of time and some money.

Under that system, there would be a few expansion bundles for CK2 now. The one above, Old Gods + Sons of Abraham + Rajas of India ($40, discount down to $33 when bundled), Charlemagne + Way of Life + Horse Lords ($38, discount down to $32), and the next bundle would be Conclave + Reaper's Due + Whatever.

So, instead of me buying several pieces of DLC plus base game, I could buy the base game and two-three expansion bundles.

Right now, there is the CK2 Collection, but....it isn't really good. It is all or nothing, and they throw in a ton of portraits and unit packs in there so it hard to parse together what is included. You can't tell from a glance that the "CK2 Collection" doesn't include Charlemagne or later DLC.
 
"Expansion" bundles would be a great idea, and naming something a Collection without it being a collection is... unintuitive to say the least.
 
phew didn't miss any then

sry for bailing this week. party was awesome until it wasn't
 

Link to video.

Since we sometimes make use of alternate histories here. From 0:19 onward, an alternate timeline where the Soviet Union discovers a rare element with amazing properties.

Otherwise, the timeline is unaltered, as they don't get very far with the experiments... but that's why the game centers on an alternate timeline (created early on in the game) where the experiments don't stop, and the USSR uses it to develop weapons that enable it to conquer the entire world.

I get the feeling a lot of you would get a kick out of the Good Ending of the game. ;)

Spoiler :
Basically, it starts out the same as the unaltered timeline (where you were part of a US special forces team sent to investigate the abandoned Soviet research site)... but then you realize: the opening credits are in Russian, there's a hammer and sickle on the US military helicopters, your commanding officer refers to you as "Comrade" and has a Russian weapon instead of an American one, and you're told to report back to "Red Fleet" instead of Titan One. The implication is the Soviets still take over the world in the Good Ending, but this time around, the Soviets are good guys (having been led by the Russian scientist who was allied with you throughout the game) rather than a brutal, global dictatorship.
 
Long time no see Tani! How's it been doing?

(OT: When did you become a socialist? :p )
 
Alright so I've started using Discord now. Everyone else do so! Have to say, it is much better than Chatango...
 
In the name of Saber, new forum interface!
 
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