Dota 2

[civvver]

Abaddon is overpowered as hell. Win rate right now is 57% which would be the highest all time. I don't think it's an issue of knowing how to counter either, he doesn't do anything gimmicky with a direct counter, he's just really annoying and impossible to kill. Nerf inc?

 

[Crezth]

Abaddon is overpowered as hell. Win rate right now is 57% which would be the highest all time. I don't think it's an issue of knowing how to counter either, he doesn't do anything gimmicky with a direct counter, he's just really annoying and impossible to kill. Nerf inc?

Highest all time win rate was Centaur who had 67% after his introduction. And Drow had like 62% at the time as well.

I haven't played any Dota lately but I guess in theory you can just ignore him? He tickles.

 

[Angst]

Abaddon is a horrible hero imo. I've had no issue with facing him, but have had issues siding with him, even when the player was obviously good.

The ulti is basically worthless against good players, while it only presents derp moments against bad ones. He's really, really easy to play around, and his skills don't really present any offensive staying power.

The reason Abaddon has such a high win rate is that pub players haven't seen him before and don't know how to handle his ulti, and I suspect that old WC3 players - who are often more skilled - are jumping at the opportunity to play him again.

 

[civvver]

The ulti is basically worthless against good players

This sums it up. Most players are not smart, everyone dogpiles abadon while the nukers tear you apart. Stupid I know. But the nerf part, basically if he's in lane with a disabler it's impossible to do anything early. Just hug the tower.

I didn't know about other hero win percentages that early, I've only been playing 8 months. Makes sense drow was insanely good at release. Still is, people probably had to figure out not to run from the frost arrows and nuke her.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Once Abaddon becomes familiar to the Dota 2 community, his win rate will decline.

 

[bonefang]

some one here said Shadow Fiend is bad ??

YaphetS a.k.a. P-God

please see some of his SF game plays.

 

[Crezth]

some one here said Shadow Fiend is bad ??

YaphetS a.k.a. P-God

please see some of his SF game plays.

This has literally nothing to do with what I'm talking about. It's technically possible to own face as Meepo but that doesn't mean Meepo isn't useless to the point of badness.

Drow's and Centaur's initial high win rates were due to gimped mechanics. Drow's global ranged aura pushed all the lanes automatically. It was basically a Win button. And Centaur's ultimate used to stun (on a fairly low cooldown) so there was no real defense against it.

I'm not sure if the same applies to Abaddon as Warlock's win rate has been hovering at 59-60% for several months now.

 

[civvver]

Warlock is one of the best supports and really quite easy to play. You basically build a scepter and ult in team fights, then use your heal and chains and then the channeled ability. I also think it's because he's not overplayed at all, he's about average for appearances so it seems like he's not attracting a lot of noobs. I wouldn't say he's overpowered because all he can do is team fight and he's pure support but he is quite amazing.

And shadow fiend is not bad at all, even in your original context. He's one of the best ranged hard carries. The issue is, with any hard carry, when he's on a team with 2-3 carries and not enough supports he doesn't bring enough to the table. But the same can be said for literally every hard carry. I'd definitely put shadow fiend in same category as drow, medusa, luna and even viper.

 

[azzaman333]

Once Abaddon becomes familiar to the Dota 2 community, his win rate will decline.

This. The Abaddon port in HoN has under 50% win rate with very similar stats.

 

[bonefang]

any decent farmer, with SF can farm a blink in lvl 8, a bkb in lvl 10-11...coz of his unique passives ....
after that he is pretty much free kills.

 

[Crezth]

Warlock is one of the best supports and really quite easy to play. You basically build a scepter and ult in team fights, then use your heal and chains and then the channeled ability. I also think it's because he's not overplayed at all, he's about average for appearances so it seems like he's not attracting a lot of noobs. I wouldn't say he's overpowered because all he can do is team fight and he's pure support but he is quite amazing.

And shadow fiend is not bad at all, even in your original context. He's one of the best ranged hard carries. The issue is, with any hard carry, when he's on a team with 2-3 carries and not enough supports he doesn't bring enough to the table. But the same can be said for literally every hard carry. I'd definitely put shadow fiend in same category as drow, medusa, luna and even viper.

Luna is way different because of glaive bounce, Medusa too because of split shot. You're comparing crab apples and red deliciouses.

I'll admit Shadow Fiend can farm fast, but heroes like Medusa and Luna simply get more out of the same items than Shadow Fiend does. A Manta Style on Shadow Fiend means a stronger team fight presence - a Manta Style on Luna means split pushing, farming both jungles, or farming a huge stack of ancients.

Shadow Fiend performs best when played as a 2, or mid. In The Defense tournament, Kaipi versus Alliance, Kaipi fielded Shadow Fiend as their mid twice - once against Magnus and once against Timbersaw. Because of the way his damage scales he can dominate in LH/denies, and if he gets a BKB he's looking at dishing serious damage between minutes 20 and 30 with minimal farm. I'll admit I think that's pretty good, even if it's technical. It just seems, to me, harder to pull off than a Puck or QOP mid.

Basically my point is he's not a hard carry. He's a midgame carry at best who gets massively overshadowed by lategame carries unless he secures a powerful advantage early on. Which can be the case if he's being played by someone like KP.Arteezy.

Warlock might not be OP per se, but he's definitely the best team-fight hero right now. And given that team-fights are one of the most important parts of the game, that counts for something.

 

[GoodGame]

Once Abaddon becomes familiar to the Dota 2 community, his win rate will decline.

You can win against Abaddon just by effectively ignoring/containing him while you deal with the rest of the team. He's kind of like that sci-fi movie monster who is powerful only because the good guys have no clue how he operates, but then they figure it and out and then he's a moderately easy opponent to deal with.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Basically that. Of course, he's very good at shielding and healing his team too, so he does present a difficulty regardless.

 

[Angst]

Not as good as most other supports I've played with, at least. I mean, he's less squishy, but that's basically what he has going for him. He may be hard to kill.

 

[civvver]

Luna is way different because of glaive bounce, Medusa too because of split shot. You're comparing crab apples and red deliciouses.

I'll admit Shadow Fiend can farm fast, but heroes like Medusa and Luna simply get more out of the same items than Shadow Fiend does. A Manta Style on Shadow Fiend means a stronger team fight presence - a Manta Style on Luna means split pushing, farming both jungles, or farming a huge stack of ancients.

Shadow Fiend performs best when played as a 2, or mid. In The Defense tournament, Kaipi versus Alliance, Kaipi fielded Shadow Fiend as their mid twice - once against Magnus and once against Timbersaw. Because of the way his damage scales he can dominate in LH/denies, and if he gets a BKB he's looking at dishing serious damage between minutes 20 and 30 with minimal farm. I'll admit I think that's pretty good, even if it's technical. It just seems, to me, harder to pull off than a Puck or QOP mid.

Basically my point is he's not a hard carry. He's a midgame carry at best who gets massively overshadowed by lategame carries unless he secures a powerful advantage early on. Which can be the case if he's being played by someone like KP.Arteezy.

Warlock might not be OP per se, but he's definitely the best team-fight hero right now. And given that team-fights are one of the most important parts of the game, that counts for something.

I can't disagree with the logic in your posts in theory, but in practice in non-tournament play my games with Shadow Fiend on my team we usually dominate more than with Luna or Medusa. There's too many variables to make any definitive conclusions but Shadow Fiend is awesome on the right team in non competitive play.

 

[Crezth]

Yeah, that's fair. Pub games aren't usually organized enough to take advantage of strengths/weaknesses in the appropriate way.

That's why you can usually get your low-MMR pub team an easy win if you just pick a hard carry, such as Luna (Luna is a great hero) and just farm for a solid 30 minutes. Luna is strong enough to participate in early tower defenses with her ult and scales decently with her glaives to farm quickly that she can really dominate the late game. That would swiftly shut up any Shadow Fiend or Snipers you find yourself going in against. Unless they got fed, like, 20 kills or something. >_>

 

[civvver]

Bumping for new patch notes! This next patch is going to make the game easier for new players imo, with changes to gold generation, neutral camps and xp ranges. It's also going to steer the game away from the current 1-1-3 format into more 2-1-2 formats which allows more flexible hero choices (thus you won't be as screwed when your teammates don't pick wisely) and is generally the go to format for pubs (so you won't get rolled by a better 1-1-3).

Also Abadon still dominating, along with elder titan. The two together is insane.

Patch notes:
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=109826

 

[Crezth]

Also, that Bloodseeker buff is plain stupid.

 

[civvver]

We'll see how it works out. He's a bad hero but a pub stomper so this could make it much worse, but he kind of needs some buffs for competitive play.

Buffs I'm most excited about are disruptor and skywrath aghanim's change. I love those two heroes and they're going to be even stronger.

 

[GoodGame]

It's funny, I never see anyone play Abaddon any more.

I am hype for the changes to Broodmother and Ogre Magi.