Double standard? Which is worse:

[NovaKart]

At the same time it s easier for a girl to say no to a man and to report it as society will look down upon a boy who does that.

And the idea that every boy is a horny bag of meat and every girl a pristine angel needs to be dispelled. There may be tendencies, but they are far from true throughout the population.

I agree, there are females who use sex as a power game too.

Anyway, teachers know that this is against the rules so I don't see why the same rules can't apply to everyone regardless of gender.

 

[say1988]

But most of these cases do not involve any physical threat or actions. It is more often psychological manipulation. Which women are just as capable of as men, and (as your argument implies) boys are more vulnerable to this.

 

[duckstab]

But most of these cases do not involve any physical threat or actions. It is more often psychological manipulation. Which women are just as capable of as men, and (as your argument implies) boys are more vulnerable to this.

If one party is a minor, it's statutory rape even in the absence of any kind of threats or emotional manipulation, because minors are not generally emotionally mature enough to appreciate the full ramifications of entering into such a relationship. That's applicable regardless of the sex of either party.

Whether adults of one gender are more likely to resort to particular means to ensnare young sex partners is not relevant.

Which brings up an interesting question: what about homosexual relationships between teacher and student? Is a gay male teacher sleeping with a student less in the wrong because his target is "perpetually horny", and a lesbian teacher more so because hers is more "emotionally vulnerable"? I think not.

 

[Elrohir]

Addition mine

Which is almost beyond exception true. There are very, very few husband-beaters next to the number of wife-beaters.

That's actually untrue. If you dig into the actual studies, women are just as likely to use violence in their intimate relationships as men. Now, granted, women are statistically more likely to be hospitalized or killed, but in terms of who is hitting who, there's very little difference.

 

[.Shane.]

They are completely, unequivocally equally wrong.

If, say, a 30 year old male (teacher or otherwise) gets jail time for having relations with a 13 year old (student or otherwise), then it would be exactly the same for a woman with a boy, etc....

 

[Flying Pig]

That's actually untrue. If you dig into the actual studies, women are just as likely to use violence in their intimate relationships as men. Now, granted, women are statistically more likely to be hospitalized or killed, but in terms of who is hitting who, there's very little difference.

[90][91] According to a report by the United States Department of Justice, a survey of 16,000 Americans showed 22.1 percent of women and 7.4 percent of men reported being physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, boyfriend or girlfriend, or date in their lifetime.[92] A 2001 survey of over 22,000 residents of England and Wales by the UK Home Office showed four percent of women and two percent of men were victims of domestic violence in the last year. Of the most heavily abused group, 89 percent were women.[93] Women are much more likely than men to be murdered by an intimate partner. Of those killed by an intimate partner about three quarters are female and about a quarter are male. In 1999 in the United States 1,218 women and 424 men were killed by an intimate partner,[94] and 1181 females and 329 males were killed by their intimate partners in 2005.[95][96] In England and Wales about 100 women are killed by partners or former partners each year while 21 men were killed in 2010.[97] In 2008, in France, 156 women and 27 men were killed by their intimate partner.[98]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence#cite_note-104
Both men and women have been arrested and convicted of assaulting their partners in both heterosexual and homosexual relationships. The bulk of these arrests have been men being arrested for assaulting women. However, in the case of reciprocal violence, frequently only the male perpetrator is arrested Determining how many instances of domestic violence actually involve male victims is difficult. Male domestic violence victims may be reluctant to get help for a number of reasons. Another study has demonstrated a high degree of acceptance by women of aggression against men.[107]
Similarly, the National Institute of Justice states that the studies that find that women abuse men equally or even more than men abuse women are based on data compiled through the Conflict Tactics Scale, a survey tool developed in the 1970s and which may not be appropriate for intimate partner violence research because it does not measure control, coercion, or the motives for conflict tactics; it also leaves out sexual assault and violence by ex-spouses or partners and does not determine who initiated the violence.

Bolding for emphasis where I could be bothered.

 

[NovaKart]

It seems like that just confirms what Elrohir said. The difference is only 2 percent but women are more affected by it.

 

[Flying Pig]

It seems like that just confirms what Elrohir said. The difference is only 2 percent but women are more affected by it.

I make it 100%

 

[NovaKart]

I'm talking about numbers here, not your opinion of which is worse.

 

[say1988]

If one party is a minor, it's statutory rape even in the absence of any kind of threats or emotional manipulation, because minors are not generally emotionally mature enough to appreciate the full ramifications of entering into such a relationship. That's applicable regardless of the sex of either party.

Whether adults of one gender are more likely to resort to particular means to ensnare young sex partners is not relevant.

Which brings up an interesting question: what about homosexual relationships between teacher and student? Is a gay male teacher sleeping with a student less in the wrong because his target is "perpetually horny", and a lesbian teacher more so because hers is more "emotionally vulnerable"? I think not.

I know. It was a direct response to akka saying that it is worse for a man to have sex with a girl because "Men have, by large, stronger tendencies to both want sex and to use abusive methods to obtain it."

Honestly, Flying Pig, I have to question any statistic about these things. The number of people who refuse to admit they are abused is probably quite significant, and how it would balance out is another issue. Which your quote also supports.

 

[Akka]

I'm talking about numbers here, not your opinion of which is worse.

He's not talking about what is worse in his opinion, he's pointing that "2 %" vs "4 %" isn't "2 % more", it's "twice as much".

I know. It was a direct response to akka saying that it is worse for a man to have sex with a girl because "Men have, by large, stronger tendencies to both want sex and to use abusive methods to obtain it."

If you're going to answer me, then first quote my message and not the message of another person, and second, read the entirety of my post and not just the second half.
Thank you.

 

[NovaKart]

I see, but it's still a 2% difference and I would say most men probably don't report it.

 

[Flying Pig]

I see, but it's still a 2% difference and I would say most men probably don't report it.

No, no - 4% is 100% greater than 2%. Two percentage points, which si quite different altogther. 2% larger means 1.02 times the size; 100% large means twice the size which is teh case.

I see, but it's still a 2% difference and I would say most men probably don't report it.

Most women don't report it either, which is half the problem. The murder figures are perhpas more useful in that they're harder to hush up

 

[NovaKart]

It's double the number but with their both being small numbers it doesn't really stand out as a significant difference. I think men would still be a lot more reluctant to report this than women.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Seems I agree with the majority of posts so far. It shouldn't be a legal matter, only a consideration of work ethics for the school to deal with (given the fact that the boys involved are 18 years old).

Indeed. Being as second degree felony is completely absurd. But this is Texas.

Under Texas statutes, it is illegal, but you have to understand the prudish conservatism of our elected officials. One justification for having a law is to deal with a situation where the school refused to discipline the teacher. There should be some negative consequence for crossing the line.

Then they should simply fire the school board for not handing out the appropriate punishment, like forcing her to take the Summer off to think about her acts and rest up.

 

[Flying Pig]

It's double the number but with their both being small numbers it doesn't really stand out as a significant difference.

That's roughly 600,000 men and 1,200,000 women in Britain alone - that's quite a big number!

 

[NovaKart]

Apparently the proportion in the USA is much larger but this is in their lifetime compared to in just the last year but it doesn't go into exactly what a physical assault entails so anything from shoving to serious abuse might qualify.

 

[Hornblower]

You all seem to be focussed on adolescent randy sex fantasies and how likely it is that boys or girls would knock back a bedroom romp.
It is all about context not age of consent. This person is a Teacher! They are in a command role and position of trust. They are trained and employed by the state to train and develop young minds. Exactly what sort of message is it sending that this woman can take 5 sutdents and have sex with them. The age is not relevant as these boys were her charges. If the CEO of a major company was found to be doing this with 5 of his employees he would be sacked. Regardless of their age or consent because credibility and authority is immediately compromised. Oh did I mention that she is also a Teacher! Teachers are employed under a contract and code of conduct and as such she should be sacked, deregistered and suffer dire consquences for exploiting her position. Given that she has done this with 5 there is a high likelyhood of reoffending. We then see a scenario like these Catholic priest who have had a lifetime of abusing the steady stream of children that they have access to. Teachers are members of the community who deserve to be trusted and should be respected. When something like this happens it makes their job just that little bit harder.

 

[say1988]

I think pretty much everyone here is in full agreement that what she did was wrong (because of the context) and that she should have been fired. But the question is whether she should be criminally charged, which I disagree with.

 

[civver_764]

I think we need to get rid of the idea that 14-15 year old girls are unable to consent. No one would say a 14 year old boy was scarred for life because he got laid by his teacher, I don't see why its any different for a girl. Sexism and social stigma is all it is.