Dudes know about Koans?

[Perfection]

Zen Koans? I wanna know what's up with that! Any you geniuses know some good books/links/whatevs about em?

Anyone have any personal thoughts on the topic?

Love,
Perfs

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Anyone have any personal thoughts on the topic?

The objective is to not have thoughts on the subject, so no.

 

[Kyriakos]

This thread asks a question which is both obscure and provided with no information in the OP on deciphering what it is about.
2/10, would refrain from discussing until AMN* update.

*a much needed

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

I haven't spent a lot of time with koans so much as Mahayana literature, but I can say from both personal experience and recommendations made that Thomas Cleary is a very good and well-reputed translator of Buddhist literature, and he has a book of Zen koans called "The Blue Cliff Record" that I have on good record is a great source. Cleary usually includes notations and discussions of the material at hand, so it might be a good place to start.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

If nobody understands my wisdom, is it really wisdom ?

 

[Lohrenswald]

What are koans?

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

What are koans?

They're statements, of varying length, that are studied as part of Zen Buddhism. Probably the most famous one is "Two hands clap and there is a sound. What is the sound of one hand?" often shortened to "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

 

[Kyriakos]

From wikoan:

"Literary practice

Koan practice developed from a literary practice, styling snippets of encounter-dialogue into well-edited stories. It arose in interaction with "educated literati".[8] There were dangers involved in such a literary approach, such as fixing specific meanings to the cases.[8] Dahui Zonggao is even said to have burned the woodblocks of the Blue Cliff Record, for the hindrance it had become to study of Chán by his students[9] Kōan literature was also influenced by the pre-Zen Chinese tradition of the "literary game"—a competition involving improvised poetry.[10]

The style of writing of Zen texts has been influenced by "a variety of east Asian literary games":[11]

The extensive use of allusions, which create a feeling of disconnection with the main theme;
Indirect references, such as titling a poem with one topic and composing a verse that seems on the surface to be totally unrelated;
Inventive wordplay based on the fact that kanji (Chinese characters) are homophonic and convey multiple, often complementary or contradictory meanings;
Linking the verses in a sustained string based on hidden points of connection or continuity, such as seasonal imagery or references to myths and legends.[11]

"

It seems to be a sort of apopthegma, ie a very brief statement being a concise summation (or more usually allusion) of more thoughts. But in the case of the Koan it appears that they usually have the intention to cast doubt on knowing something in a stable manner.

I suppose another such Koan is the chinese phrases about that king who dreamt he was a butterfly, and upon waking up wondered if he wasn't now merely a butterfly dreaming he is a human.

 

[warpus]

I'm subscribed to /r/koans.

Not sure if it's a great resource, but it seems to have some interesting submissions.

 

[CavLancer]

I seem to remember something about Coneheads but as for their religious affiliation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygymejkA_CM

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Here is my wisdom on the purpose of this stuff which I arrived in the last two minutes mainly based on reading sections of Kyrikioas' post:
A lot of Buddhism seems to me to be about humility (a central theme in many religions and philosophies, for that matter) You know, not to be to obsessed with power and self-image and material things, but rather striving for some kind of serene tranquility. And that requires a lot of humility, I think.
To read and study a book full of non-sensible "wisdom" nuggets seems like an interesting way to try to practice such humility. To loose yourself in the task rather than trying to achieve anything with it. Since defining and aiming for achievement is the birth place of a lot of vile traits working against enlightenment, I think.
That also means that if you do not care about enlightenment / practicing humility but are rather the kind of person who sees wisdom nuggets as tools it can do something "useful" with, I'd avoid that stuff.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Zen Koans? I wanna know what's up with that! Any you geniuses know some good books/links/whatevs about em?

Anyone have any personal thoughts on the topic?

Love,
Perfs

Yes, love perfs, but it also bridges.

 

[Borachio]

The lady's white hands strum her guitar strings, and... pop!...the goose is out of the bottle, and smoking a cigar.

Also, blah blah, something, something, moonbeams.

See? I'm a master koanite. Koan the Barbarian, naturally.

 

[cybrxkhan]

As OT's resident Buddhist (nominally speaking, I guess), or at least the most active one here, I feel like I'm supposed to say something witty here but honestly I can't think of anything.

I do like some of the koans and Zen stories though, they're pretty interesting for the most part. There's a little story a monk who's a family friend told me that I like - he's a Tibetan monk and it's a modern story, but it fits the general mold of the classic Zen stories in my opinion. So the story goes that an old monk is traveling along by horse. Suddenly, he comes across a young monk riding a motorcycle. After they exchange the customary greetings, the old monk chastises the young monk for riding the motorcycle, saying that as a monk he shouldn't be so materialistic and vain and obsessed with modern stuff and so on and so forth. The younger monk replies, "Well master, that may be true, but one of the Buddha's most important teachings is that you shouldn't cause suffering to other beings, so why are you burdening the horse with your weight?"

And then the young monk took off on the motorcycle like a badass into the sunset.

Well, something like that. It sounded better when the monk/our family friend told me.

I suppose another such Koan is the chinese phrases about that king who dreamt he was a butterfly, and upon waking up wondered if he wasn't now merely a butterfly dreaming he is a human.

I think you're thinking of the Taoist story about Zhuangzi (or some other philosopher) instead of the King. I'm not sure what place it has in Zen Buddhism actually.

 

[gay_Aleks]

I do like some of the koans and Zen stories though, they're pretty interesting for the most part. There's a little story a monk who's a family friend told me that I like - he's a Tibetan monk and it's a modern story, but it fits the general mold of the classic Zen stories in my opinion. So the story goes that an old monk is traveling along by horse. Suddenly, he comes across a young monk riding a motorcycle. After they exchange the customary greetings, the old monk chastises the young monk for riding the motorcycle, saying that as a monk he shouldn't be so materialistic and vain and obsessed with modern stuff and so on and so forth. The younger monk replies, "Well master, that may be true, but one of the Buddha's most important teachings is that you shouldn't cause suffering to other beings, so why are you burdening the horse with your weight?"

And then the young monk took off on the motorcycle like a badass into the sunset.

Well, something like that. It sounded better when the monk/our family friend told me.

Was the said relative severely drunk as he told the story?

 

[cybrxkhan]

Was the said relative severely drunk as he told the story?

Like I said 'twas a family friend who was a monk, monks aren't supposed to drink. -_-

 

[Kyriakos]

Like I said 'twas a family friend who was a monk, monks aren't supposed to drink. -_-

Don't be harsh on Tolni, if your country traces its ties to rebelious peasants then it can't really be respectful of the finer meditative moods

Another master of zen likely was Basil II, he turned a blind eye on many.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Too bad you lost it all for some Hungarian princess.

bros over hos man