Deliverator
Graphical Hackificator
Hey guys. Like other people, I have been pretty busy this week.
I should have time to play a turn on Sunday sometime.
I should have time to play a turn on Sunday sometime.
Dune Wars : Game 2 - Arrakis. Desert Planet.
- Thread starter Slvynn
- Start date
davidlallen
Deity
Thanks for the pointer. That is also closely related. The examples are for FFH, which is good; I was worried that most of these were only for vanilla. What I want to do is just slightly different than Many Leaders; that has a single map with all the leaders, so each player has a different start coordinate. This means the results may vary based on how good/bad the start coordinates are. For FFH, since many of the civs are terrain-based, this makes sense. For DW, I will create one map for each civ, where the player civ is always at the same start location. This will eliminate one variable regarding the goodness of the location.
Once I get a stable 1.7 out, then I will work on this.
Once I get a stable 1.7 out, then I will work on this.
Ahriman
Tyrant
I would think the main issues with this Many Leaders thing are:
a) Variation in player skill is probably higher than variation in faction power - particularly if you're getting people who are new to the mod and aren't familiar with a lot of the intricacies. Many people also prefer to play for "roleplay" rather than play-to-win in a singleplayer mode.
b) The time requirements for reporting are very high. If people reported at the same level of detail as for a succession game, then the requirement on a player to do this would be 5x as high as the requirements for a 5-player succession game.
So you would need to think clearly about what to report (would players just report say score/commerce/beaker+gold income etc at various points through the game?), and then how to interpret this across players.
An interesting idea though!
a) Variation in player skill is probably higher than variation in faction power - particularly if you're getting people who are new to the mod and aren't familiar with a lot of the intricacies. Many people also prefer to play for "roleplay" rather than play-to-win in a singleplayer mode.
b) The time requirements for reporting are very high. If people reported at the same level of detail as for a succession game, then the requirement on a player to do this would be 5x as high as the requirements for a 5-player succession game.
So you would need to think clearly about what to report (would players just report say score/commerce/beaker+gold income etc at various points through the game?), and then how to interpret this across players.
An interesting idea though!
davidlallen
Deity
Probably I would ask people to post their save at the end of the game ("Just .. one .. more .. turn") and then I could extract all the statistics I want. If one player tries the game multiple times with different civs, that player could then report which ones seemed easier. At least it would rule out variations in start position.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
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- 411
Nice set AP! Looks like you manage to do a really good job balancing progress on the tech tree and keeping us competitive militarily.
Also good to see the terraforming progressing at pace.
I agree with moving to airpower next, the carryalls by themselfs are worth it for extra troop movement. After that maybe planetary ecology for the deep wells?
Regarding a vassal, does our terraforming work in their territory? If it does not then I think we should avoid subjugating other civs, and just go for annihilation. Never forgive! Never forget!
Also good to see the terraforming progressing at pace.
I agree with moving to airpower next, the carryalls by themselfs are worth it for extra troop movement. After that maybe planetary ecology for the deep wells?
Regarding a vassal, does our terraforming work in their territory? If it does not then I think we should avoid subjugating other civs, and just go for annihilation. Never forgive! Never forget!
davidlallen
Deity
Today, it does not. Only your own terraformed plots count against the victory criteria. It has been suggested that half your vassals' count should be added, but I have not made that change yet.
negyvenketto
Scientist
I think this question is about the terraforming process itself, not the victory criteria. I believe the terraformation is changing the whole planet not only our land.
Ahriman
Tyrant
To clarify:
1) You being Arrakis Paradise civic does not cause terraforming to happen in your vassal's territory. Your catchbasins/reservoirs do not affect terraforming rates in your vassals territory if they happen to be arrakis paradise.
Terraforming does not occur planet-wide, it occurs ONLY in the territory of those players who have the Arrakis Paradise civic.
2) The victory condition depends on terraformed territory only within your borders. Terraformed tiles anywhere else on the planet (including in your vassals' borders) do not count towards the victory condition.
negyvenketto
Scientist
Found time for playing. Got it.
negyvenketto
Scientist
I had time for 10 turns. Our newest city.
Corrino & Tleilax are in war. I think we don't want to join the war if they ask.
Offworld Trade is in. I started 2 landing stages for happy resources. Ix already has Pundirice and Ginaz training school.
Smugglers cleared.
Long way to go
I think we should focus on economy, after Guild Banking we can go for Water Discipline.
Please keep harvest spice and build Desalinators with workers.
Corrino & Tleilax are in war. I think we don't want to join the war if they ask.
Offworld Trade is in. I started 2 landing stages for happy resources. Ix already has Pundirice and Ginaz training school.
Smugglers cleared.
Long way to go
I think we should focus on economy, after Guild Banking we can go for Water Discipline.
Please keep harvest spice and build Desalinators with workers.
Spoiler :
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
Why not go after the Corrino? We can easily capture their only landing stage near us, and if the Tleilax become their vassals we're going to be surrounded. After all, they don't want us as masters because our land is too far away, so capturing the city just NW of our empire may make us closer to them.
All we need is Fanaticism for blademen and Air Power.
All we need is Fanaticism for blademen and Air Power.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
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Wow, good to know Wensica declared at pleased... that's almost as cutthroat as a human
Certainly it would be nice to declare on Wensica before she gets the Tleilax as a vassel so that we avoid the plague, but we really are not ready for an offensive war right now. Are you suggesting declaring now for distraction purposes and then getting Fanaticism, air power or getting an army and then declaring?
Certainly it would be nice to declare on Wensica before she gets the Tleilax as a vassel so that we avoid the plague, but we really are not ready for an offensive war right now. Are you suggesting declaring now for distraction purposes and then getting Fanaticism, air power or getting an army and then declaring?
negyvenketto
Scientist
Leto is in WHEOOH mode. I would wait until he declares on somebody and join on his side for the diplo +.
If we attack Corrino, we can expect Harkonnen backstab, they are friends.
If we attack Corrino, we can expect Harkonnen backstab, they are friends.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
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If I were to guess, Leto is going to be outclassed very soon in land and power and will probably vassalize to Ix. (This is one problem of the AI, that they just build as much as it is safe without war and by then it's too late to expand, viz. the Tleilax who started on a small island and got blocked by us and Corrino soon. Even the Fremen who can travel through desert without suspensor transport AND cheap troops with Fremen Water Debt don't go found cities in other islands)
Distraction is not bad, and even if the Harkonnen declare on us we can easily capture a city or two from them and make peace, since our eastern border cities are fairly productive.
The other thing to do is to found a city next to the Tleilax and let our power awe them (maybe even gift them some resources now) into vassalizing spontaneously while we build an army against Corrino.
Distraction is not bad, and even if the Harkonnen declare on us we can easily capture a city or two from them and make peace, since our eastern border cities are fairly productive.
The other thing to do is to found a city next to the Tleilax and let our power awe them (maybe even gift them some resources now) into vassalizing spontaneously while we build an army against Corrino.
negyvenketto
Scientist
Ahriman pointed out terraformed tiles on vassal's territory doesn't count for our victory. Hence we shouldn't get vassals.
God-Emperor
Deity
The victory conditions picture claims that you control just 2 terraformed tiles, but 3 pictures back (the one centered on Sietch Makab) shows 7 such tiles in just that area and the picture before that (showing the new Djedida Pan) has some more in the upper right.
What's up with that?
What's up with that?
davidlallen
Deity
There are two levels of terraforming: anchor grass, and grassland. The graphics are different but apparently still not different enough. If you can see patchy brown underneath the green, then it is anchor grass and it does not count towards the total. It has to upgrade one more level before it is grassland; only grassland is counted towards the total.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
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I agree. There can be no mercy!
Maybe if the sword grass was a yellowy brown like a lawn that has not been watered over the summer the difference would stand out better.
God-Emperor
Deity
Ah. You have to have many plots that have each been randomly converted twice. No wonder people have been saying it takes forever. (I haven't played a version with this victory condition yet - just the old "build enough reservoirs and you win" version, which was way to easy).
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
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It takes almost as long as a cultural victory. I just finished a game as Corrino and I let the Fremen convert 88 tiles, and I myself had 20 something tiles. You really need Reservoirs of Liet to speed things up (I had the biggest empire by far while they were 2nd)--I didn't build any of them.
