Dune Wars : Game 2 - Arrakis. Desert Planet.

[AnotherPacifist]

It's really unfortunate that Leto II has a different religion than that of our holy city and that he might ally with Feyd. (I think we may want to beeline Mahdi and get some fanatics like last game, don't know why we need wind energy since "windmills" are almost never worked early on in the game compared to mines and water sources)

 

[Stochastic]

Looks good so far. I think we need to decide on a medium term (next round of sets?) plan. I’m kind of against war vs anyone but Ecaz, it’s not really in charecter for the Imperial Ecologist Liet-Kynes to be warmongering. Other than that I think we probably want to hold off researching the Arrakis paradise civics until we have enough espionage points to keep track of everyones power, not just that of 4 civs, so that we know how threatened we are when we eventually do switch over. Maybe work towards desert industry? It’s required for desalination, extra water and of course Arrakis Paradise.

Now, comments after surveying the empire:
The ground water by Sietch Abbr is still unimproved, that should be done.

One of the Techman specialist in Gara Kulon would be better suited working the cottage (same # of hammers but more commerce now and in the future).

We need to beeline Law of Arrakis for the Tribunals. City Upkeep is currently 41 while our total commerce is only 93. Building Tribunals would significantly help our tech slider.

Why did we refuse open borders with Leto and Feyda? It wouldn’t be any problem diplomatically and don’t we want Shai Hulud to spread for the extra water and happy?

Also, we only have 7 workers for 7 spread out cities. We should probably get a 2-3 more so that we don’t waste worker turns running around between cities and rebuilding harvesters.

Finally, once we have a few more Master Guardsmen I think we should start settling again. The dot map is still there, I vote we start with the yellow dot to the northeast of our main island and then the green dot to the southwest of that one.

I’m going to have to stay quieter until Thursday because I’ve got a couple of projects due, I'll lurk but I'm not sure how much I'll contribute.

 

[negyvenketto]

It's really unfortunate that Leto II has a different religion than that of our holy city and that he might ally with Feyd. (I think we may want to beeline Mahdi and get some fanatics like last game, don't know why we need wind energy since "windmills" are almost never worked early on in the game compared to mines and water sources)

Our holy city doesn't matter, we can't convert to Imperialism anyway. Mahdi was FIDL, I forgot to check where. We just have to wait until Shai-Hulud speads to us, or conquer a city that has it.
I get windmill because of the polar city needs hammers + it is required (or solar energy) for Climate Control.

Looks good so far. I think we need to decide on a medium term (next round of sets?) plan. I’m kind of against war vs anyone but Ecaz, it’s not really in charecter for the Imperial Ecologist Liet-Kynes to be warmongering. Other than that I think we probably want to hold off researching the Arrakis paradise civics until we have enough espionage points to keep track of everyones power, not just that of 4 civs, so that we know how threatened we are when we eventually do switch over. Maybe work towards desert industry? It’s required for desalination, extra water and of course Arrakis Paradise.

We need to control something like 157 terraformed tiles, so yes we have to fight for it.
Terraforming is a slow process, that's why we need to start asap. After that we can focus on economy and war again.

Now, comments after surveying the empire:
The ground water by Sietch Abbr is still unimproved, that should be done.

No, water clears away spice. We discussed this before. Slvynn suggested not to build well, yet.

We need to beeline Law of Arrakis for the Tribunals. City Upkeep is currently 41 while our total commerce is only 93. Building Tribunals would significantly help our tech slider.

Agree, after Way of Liet.

Why did we refuse open borders with Leto and Feyda? It wouldn’t be any problem diplomatically and don’t we want Shai Hulud to spread for the extra water and happy?

I didn't refuse Leto, just forgot to ask him OB. Refused the others, 'cos I hate them

Also, we only have 7 workers for 7 spread out cities. We should probably get a 2-3 more so that we don’t waste worker turns running around between cities and rebuilding harvesters.

Our core cities don't need workers right now, we can build some, but I would prefer settlers for more cities.

 

[Slvynn]

I agree on most points of negy.
We need more settlers. Also it will be good if we get OB with Leto II – There is a chance we’ll get SH missionary from him.
Law of Arrakis is priority as well as setlting new cities (maximum possible) and starting terraforming. I am sure we will out-tech all rivals soon, most of them will be spice consuming enemies, but perhaps Leto II will be our ally.

 

[negyvenketto]

Roster:
1. Slvynn
2. negyvenketto just played
3. Deliverator UP!
4. AnotherPacifist
5. Stochastic

 

[Slvynn]

Seems Deliverator busy somewhere.... May be lets wait him abit and then just skip him for this round?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

If he doesn't play tonight, I can play tomorrow morning. (have the day off!)

 

[davidlallen]

Deliverator has commented before, "If you want to make progress modding, stay off the forum". I hope he is following this advice and making a lot of progress with the wonder rewrite. I agree with AP's suggestion to skip him shortly.

 

[Deliverator]

Deliverator has commented before, "If you want to make progress modding, stay off the forum". I hope he is following this advice and making a lot of progress with the wonder rewrite. I agree with AP's suggestion to skip him shortly.

Good guess, I am focusing on the wonders. If you want to skip me this time, that is fine. Otherwise I should get to it in the next 24 hours.

 

[Slvynn]

Ok here is he!! awesome
i think lets wait him till he will be able to play ))

Also i got some rl work to do in close days which might to keep me abit away but i will play my round i guess as well update action buttons for next release.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

0. OB with Leto II. Raised research to get Climate Control in 1 move.
1. Climate control in, go for Feudalism (Law of Arrakis prereq) next. Academy built in Gara Kulon (as directed).
2. Vernius's GA begins (likely from a great spy that was born the turn before). Moving troops towards Ecaz.
3. Landsraad spread in Gara Kulon by Ecaz.
4. Feudalism in, Law of Arrakis next.
5. DOW on Ecaz, capture Azrak Pan:

Spoiler :

I notice Feyd and Roma are friends of Ecaz but still just cautious with our aggression.
6. GS born in Sietch Tabr. I decide to save him until we get meritocracy and all of our cities come out of revolt.
7. Coanua founded near Chapterhouse.

8. Law of Arrakis done. To quote the preacher at Arrakeen:

The Fremen must return to his original faith, to his genius in forming human communities; he must return to the past, where that lesson of survival was learned in the struggle for Arrakis. The only business of the Fremen should be that of opening his soul to the inner teachings. The worlds of the Imperium, the Landsraad and the CHOAM Confederacy have no message to give him. The will only rob him of his soul.

I see culture of Dune has not been discovered yet, and that will give us a free great nobleman. So I go for it. Chapterhouse (our most productive city) goes for the Great Memorial (10 turns, less with GA).
9. Uneventful.
10. Settled Great Burseg born in Sietch Tabr there after we capture Fogwood Landing, another Spicer-lover eliminated:

Spoiler :

11-13. Uneventful
14. Feyd converts to Imperial.
15. Culture of Dune is ours, we get free Great Nobleman who I send to Azrak Pass--if we settle him there we should claim almost all of the land next to Feyd (our neighbor) and maybe even flip Red Pass (barb). Fogwood Landing comes out of rebellion so I start our GA with our GS. Social mobility next (6 moves).
16. Windgap Sietch founded at green spot.

Spoiler :

17. Yet another GS born in Gara Kulon. Great Memorial done in Chapterhouse. The stupid Feyd builds Takim right next to us!...

Spoiler :

18. ...and wants to OB with us! No way.
19. Vernius converts to Mahdi and builds the Shrine of the Worm.
20. Uneventful
21. I played one more turn after we get Social mobility to convert to meritocracy and slavery. Yet another GS born in Chapterhouse, so I build another academy. Way of Liet next.

Spoiler :

To do:
1. Culture bomb Azrak Pass and disband Takim when it flips. I decided not to capture any barb cities since our maintenance is terrible, but I did inch some troops towards Red Pass.
2. Settle lands south of Gara Kulon, north of Yatsa Pass and north of Azrak Pass ASAP. We can also build one more city north of our capital.
3. More Tribunals!
4. Sahnin Pass (at the pole) is precariously defended, we need to send more troops there soon.
5. If we want more war, Feyd would be a good target (he's right east of former Ecaz lands, and he's our worst enemy now)

I'm sorry I didn't log this time.
4.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Whoops, sorry Deliverator, I started playing when I didn't see you post around 9am today. You can pick up after me.

 

[Deliverator]

No worries. I'm happy to sit this turn out.

 

[Stochastic]

So am I up next Deliverator or are you going to go now?

To do:
1. Culture bomb Azrak Pass and disband Takim when it flips. I decided not to capture any barb cities since our maintenance is terrible, but I did inch some troops towards Red Pass.
2. Settle lands south of Gara Kulon, north of Yatsa Pass and north of Azrak Pass ASAP. We can also build one more city north of our capital.
3. More Tribunals!
4. Sahnin Pass (at the pole) is precariously defended, we need to send more troops there soon.
5. If we want more war, Feyd would be a good target (he's right east of former Ecaz lands, and he's our worst enemy now)

1. Do we really need to worry about Takim? It seems we could wait a bit for a better use for the Noble, when the theater is built it will take quite a lot for Feyda to out culture us. I totally agree about holding off on the Smugglers though.
2. I think we should hold off on settling any more cities as we are in deficit at 60% science in a golden age so our finance is really in the dumps. I'd say try to get us in the green at 50% out of a golden age before settling a new city. Its not like the city will be net positive income anyways. If another civ settles where we want than we can build up more military and take them out. We are way ahead in terms of production according to the demographic chart.
3. Seconded.
4. I agree, maybe build the defences at Seitch Tabr b/c of the settled GG.
5. I think we should hold off on much more military until we get the internal econ going. We will want to keep most of the cities we take to boost terraforming, and I don't think we can afford the upkeep.

6. I propose a detour from the way of Liet to research Protected Trade and Cast System (in that order). They are techs we will need anyways (water shippers and Desert Industry) and will provide significant econ benefits in the short term too. Mercantilism and Faulfuleches. Unfortunately we will be out of a Golden age by then, but I think the anarchy will be worth it.

I expect that we'll want to switch Mercantilism for water Disipline when we start building Resevoirs of Liet but they are still a long way off, so I don't that is an issue.

7. Also, we need more workers. We only have 11 and have 11 cities that all could do with at least some tile improvement. The most egregious is Gara Kulon which should be working two more cottages instead of specialists. Also some workers should go harvest spice. We only have 9 right now and could have at least ~5 more from tiles in our influence currently. Then escorted workers can start building outposts, there are several places where outpost could get 2-3 spice each.

A bit more of a mod in general issue, but what is the point of the Sand Farms tech? It is a dead end that is not a prereq for anything and its bonus is (in my opinion) of limited value. Could it maybe be made a prereq for Arrakis Transformation or Planetary Ecology (seems thematic) and have its bonus made +1 commerce on insect farms, dewtraps and plantations instead of +2 commerce on plantations (a bit more generally useful instead of a large concentrated bonus)?

 

[Ahriman]

A bit more of a mod in general issue, but what is the point of the Sand Farms tech?

This is a tech in transition between purposes.

It used to have +1 water to windtraps, and was incredibly valuable.
If we go ahead and drop the commerce value from windtraps, it should also give +1 commerce to windtraps. Insect farm and dew collector bonuses could also be considered.
And we'll also put a decent wonder or there.

We might also tie it in as a requirement for Arrakis transformation.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The most egregious is Gara Kulon which should be working two more cottages instead of specialists.

I tried to run tiles instead of specialists but the AI keeps re-routing to specialists. I note that most of our big cities are at happy cap (I'm regretting that I didn't build the Sayyadinas Monastery) and I think that's why the AI keeps frustrating me. (It's not all wasted since Gara Kulon has an Academy and the scientists were doing their best work there)

 

[negyvenketto]

Nice progress
I still suggest to avoid any further delay and go for Way of Liet asap, it means NOW.
Terraforming is slow, we will have plenty of time to improve economy and capture more land. I would like to avoid a situation when we only have to press enter, because we killed everybody but have to wait for terrain improvements.

 

[Stochastic]

Ok, well without any news from Deliverator I'll say got it. I'll play latter tonight (7-8hrs from now).

My plan will be to:

1: Reinforce Sahin Pass with some defense.
2: Build up infrastructure (ie cottages) in cities working junk tiles.
3: Harvest spice.
4: Send some crysknives out to try to catch that smuggler worker.
5: Build 3-4 more workers

Research wise:
I'd still like to get protected trade before way of liet so that we can build watershippers and not starve the cities that have catchbasins built.

Also, do we have a plan for which cities to build the basins in? I haven't run a terraforming game by myself before, so I'm not sure if we want to build them in central cities or found cities for the express purpose of building terraforming buildings in them so that we don't stunt the growth of our main cities. Suggestions are welcome.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Way of Liet is more important now. As I said, a lot of cities with 12 pop are at happy cap, so unless we get a great Techman and build the Sayyadinas Monastery OR get a vassal (not available at this time), extra pop is not a good thing right now. Anyway, if we get Way of Liet and switch to Arrakis Paradise, we'll have some more green tiles which will translate into bigger population. And yes, it takes a loooong time for those tiles to turn green, which means we need to switch to Paradise ASAP. (Maybe Leto II will like us more since that's his favorite civic)

We're definitely not running out of buildings to build in our cities either. Most of them need tribunals, and some don't even have basic stuff like greenhouses.

 

[Slvynn]

I agree with Way of Liet now version.
Terraforming is very tiresome process.
Lets start it now.