Effeminate man rejected from donating blood

I've kind of lost interest in this thread because we're just arguing in circles and once a thread has gone past 10 pages I usually do anyway, but I'll make a sort of final statement since I started the thread.

We're relying on a system that dates back to the 80s when there wasn't an effective way of screening for HIV which we now have. People lie about their sexual history anyway so this policy is promoting a false sense of security. There are more effective ways to screen patients. Gay men don't all have anal sex and straight people do sometimes have anal sex. Something taking that into account would be more effective. Finally, organizations representing blood centers don't really care for the policy either. A lot of people just let their religious views cloud the subject for them.
 
Donating Blood in Sweden: A bloody difficult task

The Swedish Blood Center finally took my blood, or more specifically, collected 470cl of it; more fondly and nostalgically known as a pint.

Third time is a charm (from the Swedish expression, Tredje gången gilt) This was my third attempt to donate after I “qualified”. Sweden is self-sufficient for its blood supply so I guess as they are most often “bathing in blood” they can afford to be picky. According to their own site, in brilliant English I might add, states, “To become a blood donor in Sweden you must speak and understand Swedish, have a Swedish identity number and be a healthy person between the ages of 18-60.” The argument to support this screening process involves a prudent requirement for the donor to understand all the questions and the consequences. And certainly all of this could be provided in English, but Swedes are equal opportunity –and if they can’t translate it into all languages of potential non-Swedish-speaking donors, they shouldn’t favor one over the other. Or something like that.

Being gay is no longer a deal breaker for donating blood. Apparently if you are a gay man and can establish (or maybe if you just swear) that you haven’t had sex in over a year, you can donate blood. I can’t imagine there are many men who are so utterly devoted to the opportunity to donate.

I don’t really fully appreciate why they make it so hard to donate blood. They can turn you down if you have backache (which was one reason they rejected me on a previous try) because apparently you need your blood more than they do. A woman sitting beside me today was turned away for this reason. She didn’t take it well (and I empathized) because it was the 2nd time she was refused. I never knew that aches and pains were so blood-thirsty.

Today, donating felt more like I was sneaking around or getting away with something. I didn’t dare answer any questions which could raise a flag. I wasn’t admitting to any sniffs or sneezes let alone a fictitious secret fantasy to test out the life of a sexually active gay man.

One box of chocolates (A Christmas treat), one losing Triss Lott and two Festis boxes later I descended the Blood Bus triumphant. A Swedish blood donor.
Just for some perspective...

I'd also like to add that the frequent insinuations that a different opinion would come from being clouded by religion, homophobia, bigotry, etc, is a good way to see the moral standard and the narrowmindness of the poster.
 
That is an interesting perspective and I'm not dying to donate blood or anything like that, let alone in Sweden so I'm not going to say it makes a huge difference to me.

Since the subject of homosexuality comes up so often those of us who post regularly on here see the same attitudes coming up again and again so it's not jumping to a conclusion.
 
We're relying on a system that dates back to the 80s when there wasn't an effective way of screening for HIV which we now have.

/thread and thanks, that's what I've been trying to say. The reason I had never heard of this exclusion is because it has only existed on paper for over 20 years.

I didnt realize commenting on my anecdotal experiences in giving blood equated to awe inspiring medical knowledge.

If only sarcasm were transmitted more easily.

Btw, if you gave a patient tainted blood via that 'transfusion end' your're on, how large of a malpractice lawsuit could you expect? Do you think your career would survive something like this? http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/taintedblood/bloodscandal_timeline.html

I'm not the one running the blood bank, so yes, my career would survive entirely unscathed.

Lets put it this way. The more people that get excluded via the prescreen process, the less chance there is of something bad getting into the blood supply. I'm not sure why a medical professional doesnt seem to appreciate that, especially given stories like the one I just linked above, but /oh well.

That's Canadian news. The hemophiliac scandals are so 80's medicine in the US, hardly anyone remembers they ever happened.

As someone who has to take histories from every patient, I can tell you that patients are not very reliable sources of information. They'll deny having any medical problems, even though the chart lists a mile long set of diseases. They'll claim they are on no medications, even when they are on dozens. And naturally, depending on who is in the room, they'll deny certain forms of sexual activity. Recently, I had a wife of a patient deny that her husband had cancer, within 1 minute of admitting that he did! And then, in the following minute, reversed herself, after I pressed her, to admit that he not only had cancer, but that he was terminal. (It was diagnosed, btw, 4 years earlier.) So it's hard for me to take stock in self-reporting as a reliable means of screening.

I'll end this thread by saying that this FDA policy is old and obsolete and no one in that organization has had the will to change it, especially since that agency is rife with political appointees, who will enforce the present administration's political agenda above health. This was especially prevalent in the Bush administration, when it had a furor over initially refusing to release Plan B on the over-the-counter market.
 
I'd also like to add that the frequent insinuations that a different opinion would come from being clouded by religion, homophobia, bigotry, etc, is a good way to see the moral standard and the narrowmindness of the poster.
Ironically, I would say that is exactly what the Swedish government is showing by having such ludicrous requirements as not having even a back ache.

Today, donating felt more like I was sneaking around or getting away with something. I didn’t dare answer any questions which could raise a flag. I wasn’t admitting to any sniffs or sneezes let alone a fictitious secret fantasy to test out the life of a sexually active gay man.
But at least they finally lifted their totally homophobic stance towards gay donations in 2009:

Sweden to lift lifetime blood donation ban for gay men

Now, they only have the absurd requirement that gays not have sex with a man for the past 12 months.

Baby steps...
 
I find it amusing that some people are so resistant to accepting free blood donations from gays, but they apparently have no real problem accepting it from prostitutes and IV drug users who need the extra cash and are willing to lie to get it.

Having sex for money, and IV drug use are also reasons to be denied the ability to donate.

It may not be a lifetime ban, but if you answer 'yes' to both those questions, you will be turned away.

As Nanocyborgasm and other keep pointing out, the current system is quite capable of screening out tainted blood from any donor who has HIV, or any other blood-transmitted disease. There is no longer anything to fear, but the fear persists anyway.

Its also been repeated;y pointed out that even todays test is not 100% accurate, and there is still this thing called human error. Also, its not fear since I have also pointed out how many countries you yourself would consider 'progressive' have the exact same ban in place. Less catchphrase, and more honesty is what is needed in addressing this issue.

I've kind of lost interest in this thread because we're just arguing in circles and once a thread has gone past 10 pages I usually do anyway, but I'll make a sort of final statement since I started the thread.

We're relying on a system that dates back to the 80s when there wasn't an effective way of screening for HIV which we now have. People lie about their sexual history anyway so this policy is promoting a false sense of security. There are more effective ways to screen patients. Gay men don't all have anal sex and straight people do sometimes have anal sex. Something taking that into account would be more effective. Finally, organizations representing blood centers don't really care for the policy either. A lot of people just let their religious views cloud the subject for them.

And this entire post totally ignores the facts surrounding the issue which have been routinely ignored in this thread.

In fact, this post misrepresents much that has been factual in this thread. No method is 100% accurate, even if you remove the ban, people could still lie, no offer has been made of an more 'effective' method to screen, this isnt about individual gay men but rather the entire demograph as a whole, gay men continue to see a rise in HIV rates and have 44+ times the rate of infection than other demographs, and while one organization representing blood centers desires to see the ban removed, they dont represent all centers and they have a fiscal incentive to see the ban removed.

And finally, this isnt about religious views at all and no commentary about that has been offered in this thread. Its a continual red herring that gets tossed about here in order to avoid the real issues surrounding this problem.
 
Yeah no method is accurate but hiding behind some stupid piece of paper on which you expect people to be honest with won't really protect everyone.
 
The current tests used to screen the blood are apparently 100% effective. When was the last time someone was infected with HIV from a transfusion, even in the countries where the restrictions against gay donors have been greatly relaxed?
 
Yeah no method is accurate but hiding behind some stupid piece of paper on which you expect people to be honest with won't really protect everyone.

Really?

As counter proof I simply point out that those methods have helped result in a vastly more clean blood supply than when such screening wasnt done.

The point being, you dont change something simply because you think people will lie. I mean, there is no real incentive to lie in this process. Its voluntary.

And if someone will lie for this about their sexuality, then they would lie about the other things that remove you from donation as well. Again, the possibility of someone lieing just isnt a reason to change things. At all.

The current tests used to screen the blood are apparently 100% effective. When was the last time someone was infected with HIV from a transfusion, even in the countries where the restrictions against gay donors have been greatly relaxed?

Its already been factually stated that no test is 100% in this thread. Why would you even try to state otherwise? Anyway, consider this from the mayo clinic:

Bloodborne infections
Blood banks screen donors for risk factors and test donated blood to reduce the risk of transfusion-related infections, but they occasionally still occur. It can take weeks or months after a blood transfusion to determine that you've been infected with a virus, bacterium or parasite. You are at a slight risk of these diseases when you receive a blood transfusion:

HIV is transmitted in about 1 of every 2 million donations.
Human Lymphocytotrophic Virus is in about 1 of every 3 million donations.
Hepatitis B has a risk of about 1 in 205,000.
Hepatitis C affects about 1 in 2 million.
West Nile Virus is present in about 1 of every 350,000 units of blood in the United States.
Sepsis may cause death as a result of bacteria-contaminated blood in about 1 of a million donations.
 
A vastly cleaner blood supply? How does anyone know that? It's speculation.

Its not speculation at all. Do you really doubt that the blood supply today is cleaner than what it was in the early 80s when all this began?
 
I know a gal who works in bllod service, so I'll e-mail her and ask.

She said that every infection that can be harmful to the donator is traced back and reported to him/her. "In general, as little blood as possible is thrown away".
 
I'm talking about continuing to bar gay people leading to a cleaner supply. Anyway I'm sick of arguing in circles with you about this topic. I've said my piece .
 
She said that every infection that can be harmful to the donator is traced back and reported to him/her. "In general, as little blood as possible is thrown away".

Well, when you give blood, you notice that they usually take two vials of blood outside of the pint bag. I was always told those are for testing and correspond via label back to the pint bag.

There is also a lot of human interaction in this process. Phlebotimists and donors alike are at risk from blood spray, needle stick, and other risks that are part of the process even over and above the issue of the blood having something bad in it. Also, as humans are the ones sticking the various labels on things, in addition there is always a risk of mislabeling something.

While its a absolute great system, its still not error proof.

I'm talking about continuing to bar gay people leading to a cleaner supply. Anyway I'm sick of arguing in circles with you about this topic. I've said my piece .

So...if you think you can make an effective argument that the blood supply would be somehow cleaner by taking donations without restriction from a demograph rising in the HIV rate and having 44 times the HIV rate than other men, by all means lets hear it.
 
What I think is that an improved screening process and perhaps a more thorough analysis would be a better idea and you already know that so what's the point?
 
What I think is that an improved screening process and perhaps a more thorough analysis would be a better idea and you already know that so what's the point?

You've mentioned that improved screening process several times now. How should it be improved?

What do you mean of a 'more thorough analysis'?

Just saying that is more than a bit ambiguous without knowing the context of what you are talking about. Even in the related links and articles brought forth in the thread dont mention either of those two things since the only real change being advocated is a removal of a total ban and replacing it with a 1 year ban for having MSM sex in the last year.

So can you tell us what you mean by an improved screening process and more thorough analysis? Thanks.
 
I doubt you're really interested but in case others are, I found this article from the guardian, from 2009 but I doubt much has changed since then.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...lood-ban?showallcomments=true#end-of-comments

Pressure is mounting on the Department of Health and the National Blood Service to end the blanket lifetime ban on gay and bisexual men donating blood. This sweeping prohibition was originally introduced in the early 1980s in response to the advent of the HIV pandemic. Well-intended at the time, it is now increasingly seen as a panic, knee-jerk over-reaction.

The ban states that no blood donation is acceptable from any man who has ever had oral or anal sex with another man – even just once, even with a condom.

Among those prohibited from donating blood are: gay couples in lifelong monogamous relationships, celibate gay and bisexual men, heterosexual men who experimented at school and males who last had gay sex in the 1960s – more than a decade before HIV was first diagnosed. Even if men from these groups take blood tests that show them to not have HIV, they are banned for life from donating blood. This policy is madness.
In response to protests and criticisms. the government's Advisory Committee on the Safety of Blood, Tissues and Organs is undertaking a review to determine whether the comprehensive ban should remain.

The demand for change has been building in the run-up to World Aids Day. The National Aids Trust has called for a reconsideration of the policy, on the grounds that it is medically and scientifically questionable.

Other critics have been more forthright. The National Union of Students has concluded that the automatic lifelong ban is flawed and is actively lobbying to get it lifted. The lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) human rights group OutRage! has campaigned against the ban for 17 years. It condemns the prohibition as being based on "stereotyped, irrational, unscientific and homophobic assumptions".

Impetus for change has also come from the decision of the Anthony Nolan Trust to lift its automatic ban on all donations from gay and bisexual men. It takes the view that each individual donor should be assessed on their personal risk factors.

Several other countries have ditched their lifetime exclusion, including New Zealand, Spain, Italy, Japan and Australia. They now allow some gay and bisexual men to donate blood, in certain circumstances.

Since Spain and Italy ended their total gay ban, the number of HIV infections from contaminated blood donations has fallen dramatically. They eased the restrictions and, at the same time, improved the screening process and educated gay donors about the new policy.
Ironically, the government is defending the ban at a time when the National Blood Service is appealing for extra donors, ahead of the winter flu season. Some of the potential shortfall in the blood supply could be met if the ban was lifted.

The priority must be to protect the blood supply from infection with HIV. But this can be achieved without the universal exclusion of all gay and bisexual men. The blood service should replace it with more narrow restrictions focused on risky gay and bisexual donors. This change of policy could go hand in hand with a "safe blood" education campaign targeted at the LGBT community, to ensure that no one donates blood if they are at risk of HIV and other blood-borne infections.
The only men who should be definitely excluded as donors are those who have had oral or anal sex with a man without a condom in the previous six months and those who have a history of unsafe sex. Most other gay and bisexual men should be accepted as donors, providing their blood tests HIV-negative.

If the blood service wanted to be ultra cautious, it could exclude all male donors who have had oral or anal sex with a man in the last month, and do both a HIV antibody test and a HIV antigen test on all other men who have had oral or anal sex with a man in the preceding six months. This would guarantee that the donated blood posed no risk to its recipients. This change of policy would not endanger the blood supply. With these provisos, the blood donated would be safe.

This is not just my opinion. The call for change is growing worldwide. The American Red Cross, the American Association of Blood Banks and America's Blood Centres favour changing the lifetime ban on gay and bisexual men donating blood.

According to Dr Arthur Caplan, former chair of the US government advisory panel on blood donation: "Letting gay men give blood could help bolster the supply. At one time, long ago, the gay-blood ban may have made sense. But it no longer does."

Evidence given in 2008 to a Tasmanian tribunal on the blood ban suggested that if gay and bisexual men who practised safe sex were allowed to donate, one HIV-positive blood donation would be likely to slip through the clinical screening process once every 5,769 years. That's once between now and the year 7778.

The truth is that most gay and bisexual men do not have HIV and will never have HIV. Our blood is safe to donate. Far from threatening patients' lives, we can help save them.

Certain parts are put in bold such as an improved screening process.
 
Well, first of all, isnt the 'comments' section of that simply an editorial page, and if so, simply opinion?

And as I had already mentioned this makes no recommendation to the screening process itself aside from removing a total ban and replacing it with a 1 year ban for those in the MSM demograph if they had sex in the previous 12 months (in the editorial it actually suggests only 6 months).

This opinion piece simply reiterates the stuff we have already previously had in this thread.

Is your 'improved screening process' merely to end the lifetime ban and ask someone if they have had MSM sex in the last year?

If someone is willing to lie about their sexuality, cant they also lie about having sex with someone? Your 'improved process' does nothing to counter your earlier objection about lieing. At all.

This isnt an 'improved' screening process, just a less restrictive one. I humbly submit that less restrictions = more risk. Nothing put forward thus far by anyone in this thread has countered that.
 
It contains factual information. Furthermore, this is a message board, not a congresional hearing so all we're doing is giving our opinions anyway and yours is as good as mine.

The screening isn't really less restrictive, it's just more specific so that argument doesn't really hold any water. And no, if you read the article you will see that it doesn't just ban mwm sex in the last year.

And yes, everything reiterates something that has already been said earlier in this thread, that kind of happens once you pass 10 pages.
 
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