Elder Scrolls V: Oblivion Part 2?

[civ_king]

Playing with 100% Chameleon is like trying to win a basketball game against yourself.

When you play on maximum difficulty you take any advantage you can get

 

[Kraznaya]

On god mode maximum difficulty is just as "difficult" as the easiest difficulty.

 

[civ_king]

On god mode maximum difficulty is just as "difficult" as the easiest difficulty.

The challenge is to get there first

 

[PeteAtoms]

The next Elder Scrolls game, Skyrim, will be making some big changes to the way the series handles things like combat and levelling-up.

Firstly, combat: according to a piece in the latest issue of Game Informer, you can now dual-wield weapons in the game. To many it will sound like a cheap take on a Halo/Modern Warfare staple, but where in those shooters it's a part-time indulgence, in Skyrim it forms the cornerstone of your approach to the game, as you can allocate which weapon or tool goes in which hand.

So, for example, you can put a sword in one hand and a dagger in the other. Or two daggers. Or a staff and a shield. Or a shield and a mace. For magic users, a different spell can be cast from each hand, or for a multiplying effect, the same spell can be thrown from both hands.

Another change to the way Skyrim plays compared to its predecessor, Oblivion, is in how you gain new powers and abilities. This game does entirely away with the concept of class creation, Bethesda's thinking being it's a bit naff asking people to predict how they're going to play a game when they haven't played it yet.

Replacing this, then, is an organic system of attribute growth based on use: the more you do something, the better you get at it. While this has long been a staple of RPG games, even dating back to the Quest for Glory series, but in Skyrim it's not just complementing a class structure, it's replacing it. So you won't be cast in stone as a mage if you use lots of magic, you'll just be some adventurer with a higher magic number in their stats.

You level up according to how you progress your most-used skills. "Raising one skill from 34 to 35 is going to level you faster than raising one from 11 to 12", Bethesda's Todd Howard tells Game Informer. If you stick to what you like/do best, you'll level up quickly. Conversely, if you want to take things slowly, you can raise all or most of your skills, as not focusing on one or two in particular will mean a slower rise through the levels.

One wildly unpopular aspect of Oblivion was the fact basic enemies levelled up alongside you, meaning even the most powerful warriors could sometimes be undone by sewer rats or angry crabs. In Skyrim, though, your opponent's levelling is more like that found in Fallout 3.

Continuing Bethesda's work with Fallout 3, each new level you gain in Skyrim will also give you a perk, which you can apply to give you added bonuses relative to how you want to play the game.

The levelling sounds like an interesting experiment, one I like the sounds of since I always hate choosing an "archetype" in a game before I know how I'm going to play it. The combat also sounds like a welcome piece of customisation for the series, but how well they actually work in the game, we'll just have to wait until we get some time with it!

[Game Informer Magazine]

"The Next Elder Scrolls Has New Combat & Levelling" - Kotaku


Vrry interesting... Speshly the bolded IMO...

 

[Rub'Rum]

Doesn't sound like much of a revolution.

 

[sophie]

Doesn't sound like much of a revolution.

My thoughts precisely.

 

[civ_king]

Meet the new boos same as the old boss?

 

[Yeekim]

In Skyrim, though, your opponent's levelling is more like that found in Fallout 3.

Haven't played Fallout, what does that mean?

 

[Rub'Rum]

Haven't played Fallout, what does that mean?

In Fallout 3, there are still enemies levelling with you mechanics. Except it's limited to ranges depending on the region.

So, for instance, a specific region might be a level 3-8 region, which means that from level 3 to 8 you'll see an increase, but once you're level 8 and above you'll own everything there because the enemies will always remain in the 3 to 8 range. At least that's how I understood it.

There are also regions that have fixed low or high levels, so that some areas are always "inaccessible" until later (like the dangerous Old Olney in Fallout 3).

Anyway, that's what I gathered. It's not perfect but it was a huge improvement over Oblivion. I never had the same Oblivion feeling where some place that had rats before now had minotaurs.

As for Skyrim, it sounds like it's going to be Oblivion with some features taken from Fallout 3 and the return of the use-to-increase system from Morrowind. Can't wait to put a brick on my space button to train the athetics skill while I'm having lunch watching TV. Wait no that was in Oblivion too right? haven't played these games in a while.

 

[sophie]

Meet the new boos same as the old boss?

What's a boos?

 

[civ_king]

What's a boos?

It's how my geometry teacher pronounces boss...

 

[Tacit_Exit]

So is this version going to have the same Efficient Levelling that made me hate Morrowind and avoid Oblivion?

 

[Rub'Rum]

So is this version going to have the same Efficient Levelling that made me hate Morrowind and avoid Oblivion?

Yeah this mechanic is horrible. It was almost mandatory too in Oblivion to account for it (or at least when I ignored it I ended up over levelling or under levelling or something, I dunno, it was screwed up). I don't think they'll be stupid enough to fool with this again.

In Fallout 3 you start with set attributes that don't really change throughout the game (well they do change, but through things you find or quests and whatnot, not through levelling). It's more like D&D in that department.

 

[Tacit_Exit]

Yeah, the Fallout 3 system wasn't too bad, but it still had that skill bonus on levelling from Intelligence(?) that made me feel the need to run for the Int Bobblehead asap.

And capped stats that made a max. almost any stat. at the start a waste due to bobbleheads and some quest rewards.

I dislike levelling systems where you can clearly waste potential by not gaming the system. Once I know its there I can't help but try to follow the best path and it usually gets in the way of enjoying the game.

Vague memories of multiple levels spent jumping and whacking crabs with a crappy staff in Morrowind. *shudders*

 

[Yeekim]

In Oblivion there were Everscamps, Best Buddies of Level-Grinder (TM).

 

[Rub'Rum]

I dislike levelling systems where you can clearly waste potential by not gaming the system. Once I know its there I can't help but try to follow the best path and it usually gets in the way of enjoying the game.

Yes, that. And I too hate the bonus to skill points by intelligence. It means that even if I want to create a brute that hits people hard with unarmed, I am still tempted to give him high intelligence... and well... damn. If I don't give him high intelligence he won't be able to learn many other skills.

 

[PeteAtoms]

I think it's an issue of balancing the importance of skill and attribute values.

A high intelligence means less points for strength and endurance which are clearly beneficial to a brute. But I think the developers make it a little too easy for someone with low str/end to get away with a brute playing style. There should be increased importance and necessity in having sufficiently high or adequate skills/attributes to play a certain kind of character.

Not that a high intelligence, low endurance character should be RESTRICTED from being able to play brute style, but it should be incredibly difficult compared to how it is now.

From what was in the article, I don't see jumping to conclusions as very timely, but like I said earlier:

The leveling system in Oblivion was indeed broken, and created a system of diminishing returns for high level characters making them relatively weaker as more levels were gained.

I don't know how to solve your guys' problem with the metagaming however. There really isn't anything the developers can do to keep you from saving 1 point from Intelligence in anticipation of a bobble head. I don't know how you expect them to fix that, unless they pull bobblehead like items all together (implants a-la New Vegas, books, apparel bonuses, etc).

 

[Rub'Rum]

It's just that intelligence seems to have an impact with how much content of the game you're going to experience, which is a bad design. Being a brute just means you can use unarmed and melee better than other people. Having high intelligence allows you to use more skills and unlock more conversation options, computer hacking ,whatever, you can just have more options in general. Of course, that seems logical in the sense that this is what intelligence is, more options... But it sort of comes, as I said, at the expense of content experienced or unlocked, which makes playing a brute with low intelligence a lot less appealing suddenly.

 

[Maniacal]

Oh, duel wielding, yay. I like being able to use shields offensively and use a shield/weapon and magic, but I couldn't care less about dual-wielding weapons.

 

[Tacit_Exit]

I don't know how to solve your guys' problem with the metagaming however. There really isn't anything the developers can do to keep you from saving 1 point from Intelligence in anticipation of a bobble head. I don't know how you expect them to fix that, unless they pull bobblehead like items all together (implants a-la New Vegas, books, apparel bonuses, etc).

Re: Fallout 3 I would have preferred if they just didn't cap stats, that is max 10 on creation but allow any permanent/apparel bonuses to push the stat. up as high as you can get it. Means you don't get halfway thru the game and realise the super gear you just picked up is a waste to equip. 'cause you didn't design your character with it in mind.

Would solve part of my problem with the system, though I'd still feel compelled to make a no xp run from the Vault to that Aircraft Carrier asap