ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
BTW, the Forbidden Palace came available on the last turn when the two cities were added. Where should it go?
Enders Game 1: The Training Game Competition - Team 1
- Thread starter Speaker
- Start date
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
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The problem I have with the Vikes area is that it's a fairly small pennisula and its farther from the other AI. I actually think London has very good land but that would be forever to build without a leader. I know eventually the Jungle will be productive land. I wonder if building the FP in Kiev and planning to move the Palace later would be a good plan. A leader to move it to conquered territory would reduce flip risks, building by hand could be done when the jungle is cleared or we could do the jump exploit. The jump exploit would also allow us to move Moscow as Speaker has said the placement is wrong.
The problem I have with the Vikes area is that it's a fairly small pennisula and its farther from the other AI. I actually think London has very good land but that would be forever to build without a leader. I know eventually the Jungle will be productive land. I wonder if building the FP in Kiev and planning to move the Palace later would be a good plan. A leader to move it to conquered territory would reduce flip risks, building by hand could be done when the jungle is cleared or we could do the jump exploit. The jump exploit would also allow us to move Moscow as Speaker has said the placement is wrong.
Nice turn Control.
Sorry about not mentioning workers on GoTo. Did mention warrior.
As to build previous unit, it is usually more of a help later in game, when different cities build different stuff. You always get the chance to switch when you have to move an awake unit.
Thanks for the deatiled read. Learn a lot from it.
Grimjack
Sorry about not mentioning workers on GoTo. Did mention warrior.
As to build previous unit, it is usually more of a help later in game, when different cities build different stuff. You always get the chance to switch when you have to move an awake unit.
Thanks for the deatiled read. Learn a lot from it.
Grimjack
@ControlFreak: Since you are new to the game, I will try not to be too harsh, but I see several problems with your turn.
1: Why did you build all those embassies? Attitudes change so rapidly at this point in the game that the rep boost that establishing an embassy causes will become a moot point soon enough. Also, with 6-8 more techs before we advance to the next age, we need all of our money for trades. The goal of this game has been to teach improved diplomacy skills and we are now in a much worse position than we were before. Most importantly, however is that we are now in a much more difficult position to upgrade troops. Hopefully you read the thread before you played, and if you did, you would have seen that once we realized how pressed for space we were, we would need to upgrade troops to attack Scandinavia. Now that plan has been set back several turns as well. That just might be the difference between finding 2 units protecting a particular city or 3.
2: We have are four workers wasting their time. Why clear that jungle next to Smolensk? We already have spices hooked up. Ah, I see you say you made a mistake, yet you let them continue chopping for 7 more turns? I think you know where I'm going here. There are several tiles unimproved near Minsk, Tblisi, and Odessa....Priorities, priorities.
3: We don't need two cities producing spearmen and we don't need our veteran warriors all spread out. Yet more turns added to our war preparation. We need more cheap warriors for MP when our warriors=>swordsmen leave to fight Vikings.
4: Sverdlovsk is a huge flip risk and those dyes will not be connected forever. I believe it takes something like 18 turns (?) to road a jungle tile in Despotism with a non-industrious worker. We have two workers on the crew, so that means 9 turns a tile, so with at least 5 jungle tiles to road to get to the dyes, that equals 45 turns. Oh, were you going to clear those jungles too?
Your city management, however, was good. You micromanged like a pro, you shuffled troops around to keep the peace (which would usually be great play, except here where we plan on teaching those warriors to fight) and your report was so detailed.
At least you had reasoning for what you did. Over the rest of this game, we'll improve your reasoning.
And now my final point.
1: Why did you build all those embassies? Attitudes change so rapidly at this point in the game that the rep boost that establishing an embassy causes will become a moot point soon enough. Also, with 6-8 more techs before we advance to the next age, we need all of our money for trades. The goal of this game has been to teach improved diplomacy skills and we are now in a much worse position than we were before. Most importantly, however is that we are now in a much more difficult position to upgrade troops. Hopefully you read the thread before you played, and if you did, you would have seen that once we realized how pressed for space we were, we would need to upgrade troops to attack Scandinavia. Now that plan has been set back several turns as well. That just might be the difference between finding 2 units protecting a particular city or 3. 2: We have are four workers wasting their time. Why clear that jungle next to Smolensk? We already have spices hooked up. Ah, I see you say you made a mistake, yet you let them continue chopping for 7 more turns? I think you know where I'm going here. There are several tiles unimproved near Minsk, Tblisi, and Odessa....Priorities, priorities. 3: We don't need two cities producing spearmen and we don't need our veteran warriors all spread out. Yet more turns added to our war preparation. We need more cheap warriors for MP when our warriors=>swordsmen leave to fight Vikings. 4: Sverdlovsk is a huge flip risk and those dyes will not be connected forever. I believe it takes something like 18 turns (?) to road a jungle tile in Despotism with a non-industrious worker. We have two workers on the crew, so that means 9 turns a tile, so with at least 5 jungle tiles to road to get to the dyes, that equals 45 turns. Oh, were you going to clear those jungles too?Your city management, however, was good. You micromanged like a pro, you shuffled troops around to keep the peace (which would usually be great play, except here where we plan on teaching those warriors to fight) and your report was so detailed.
At least you had reasoning for what you did. Over the rest of this game, we'll improve your reasoning.And now my final point.
No, no, no, theyre not. Look at the map. We are tops in nearly every demographic. Scandinavia to the north is WAY too spread out and China to the west has three size 1 cities and one size 2 city. Forget England, forget Egypt, forget the Celts, they're all too far away to do us any damage. I'm picturing a sword attack on both China and Scandinavia at the same time, while Moscow continues to produce settlers which we use to fill in the land we control. Once MapMaking is spread around and we have a full view of the continent, we can figure out our FP site. So, who is with me??
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Speaker thank you for your insight. I knew, coming in that my two weakest points were worker prioritization and war preparation. I think those cover all my this turn.
Embassies - I now realize the money was much better spent elsewhere. I guess I alway want the option of bringing another AI into the fight if a)I'm losing b)the AI not in the war is running away with the game while I'm fighting. I definitely did not found embassies for the attitude adjustment or to prevent an AI from going to war with me. I wanted the tools that the embassy provides (aliance/ROP). I'm still getting used to the oscillating war idea with quick short wars.
Workers - I (during my extensive micromanagement
) felt that the cities had all the tiles that they needed to make warriors every two turns/grow as fast as possible. I wanted free movement thoughout the empire if we're going to war. I also wanted our luxury connected to all the cities. I think these are all good ideas but I guess they are not the priorities. Could you help me in my task selection by indicating which tiles you would have worked first and why?
Spears - F3 says we're weak compared to Scandinavia. I was expecting a large counter attack with archers. Having spent all our gold getting embassies
smoke:) I wanted some 2d defenders left at home just in case. Hopefully next player can switch these builds to warriors.
Sverdlovsk - after I posted the dot map you said
Team@ sorry for all my. Guess I have a lot to learn.
this turn.Embassies - I now realize the money was much better spent elsewhere. I guess I alway want the option of bringing another AI into the fight if a)I'm losing b)the AI not in the war is running away with the game while I'm fighting. I definitely did not found embassies for the attitude adjustment or to prevent an AI from going to war with me. I wanted the tools that the embassy provides (aliance/ROP). I'm still getting used to the oscillating war idea with quick short wars.
Workers - I (during my extensive micromanagement
) felt that the cities had all the tiles that they needed to make warriors every two turns/grow as fast as possible. I wanted free movement thoughout the empire if we're going to war. I also wanted our luxury connected to all the cities. I think these are all good ideas but I guess they are not the priorities. Could you help me in my task selection by indicating which tiles you would have worked first and why?Spears - F3 says we're weak compared to Scandinavia. I was expecting a large counter attack with archers. Having spent all our gold getting embassies
smoke:) I wanted some 2d defenders left at home just in case. Hopefully next player can switch these builds to warriors.Sverdlovsk - after I posted the dot map you said
I built had two settlers and no more grassland. Should I have saved the settler? Should I have settled on the other side of the lake? I thought based on your comments to Grimjack that settling 3 tiles from another city is OK. Any city I founded would have been in the jungle or far off/disconnected. I guess I could have settled another city next to Moscow's mines but that would be really crowded. What were you intending me to do with the settlers?
Team@ sorry for all my
. Guess I have a lot to learn.Worker management and war prerparation? But those are my weaknesses, how dare you claim them for your own ControlFreak?!
Don't feel bad about any mistakes you made ControlFreak, it is better this way. Obviously I want to win the game, but if we all just sailed through without any errors what would we learn. By making mistakes we get to learn from Speaker far more than we would do otherwise. It is the early game yet, plenty of time for us all to stuff up several times. I was pretty glad I had no major decisions to make on my turn.
Don't feel bad about any mistakes you made ControlFreak, it is better this way. Obviously I want to win the game, but if we all just sailed through without any errors what would we learn. By making mistakes we get to learn from Speaker far more than we would do otherwise. It is the early game yet, plenty of time for us all to stuff up several times. I was pretty glad I had no major decisions to make on my turn
.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
A little crack in the dam is usually followed by a flood.Originally posted by Speaker
@Grimjack:
I am going to hand out my first
I will be happy to share these "opportunity areas", SHard. Thank you for your encouragement and I hope neither of us can claim them at the end of this SG!
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
ControlFreak--at least you didn't get the ![[pimp]](/images/smilies/pimp.gif "Pimp [pimp]")
handed out yet....
Or, as I have seen Sirian use from time to time He is even spreading to the use of BRIGHT PINK TEXT even in non-TDGs
You folks are doing well--and the level of discussion is high--all great for a TDG.
Keep up the good work, and stamp out the little !
handed out yet....Or, as I have seen Sirian use from time to time
He is even spreading to the use of BRIGHT PINK TEXT even in non-TDGsYou folks are doing well--and the level of discussion is high--all great for a TDG.
Keep up the good work, and stamp out the little
!Being in a position to bring in other Civs on your side in a war is usually a great place to be in. But it is unlikely that we would receive much help at this early stage. Worst-case scenario would be that Egypt or England were unwilling to join our war in any case (ie if they had a trade deal with the Vikings), and even if they could be persuaded to join, we would no doubt have to pay a lot of cash in return. We need our cash for technology trading and troop upgrading. Worker managment is definitely tricky, but at this early stage, where you only have a few workers, it would be better to improve tiles that will be used in a few turns (when cities grow) than to waste time clearing or roading more jungle than is absolutely necessary.
As a general FYI at everyone, we will be pausing once we reach the next age for a quiz and to talk about what we have learned so far.
As a general FYI at everyone, we will be pausing once we reach the next age for a quiz and to talk about what we have learned so far.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Thanks speaker. How about the settler issue. Was there a better place to found than my weedy jungle town with 45turn dyes?
Upon much further review, I have decided to retract the Sverdlovsk against ControlFreak and begrudgingly give it to my own analysis. I grossly misunderstood how weak China was. While Sverdlovsk is closer to Beijing than it is to Moscow, and will have some of its tiles under Chinese control once their borders expand, China will not last that long. It is something to keep in mind for future games, however when your neighbors are not so weak. Trying to connect the dyes still gets the though.
against ControlFreak and begrudgingly give it to my own analysis. I grossly misunderstood how weak China was. While Sverdlovsk is closer to Beijing than it is to Moscow, and will have some of its tiles under Chinese control once their borders expand, China will not last that long. It is something to keep in mind for future games, however when your neighbors are not so weak. Trying to connect the dyes still gets the though.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Thanks again Speaker. Since dyes/Sverdlovsk were in the same That gives me three and a half?
In terms of connecting cities in the jungle, are you saying don't bother yet or are you saying go ahead and start, just realize that it will take forever? I was always afraid to go to war if I had cities that would take reinforcements 8 turns to get to. I was planning on roading to Sverdlovsk not for the dyes but to get it connected to the road network. The dyes come along for the ride.
That gives me three and a half?
In terms of connecting cities in the jungle, are you saying don't bother yet or are you saying go ahead and start, just realize that it will take forever? I was always afraid to go to war if I had cities that would take reinforcements 8 turns to get to. I was planning on roading to Sverdlovsk not for the dyes but to get it connected to the road network. The dyes come along for the ride.
To be safe, why don't we send settlers with our forces and once the areas are secure, they can found new cities. That way we can make peace before any enemy troops can reach our cities. We intend for this to be a short war anyways.
I got done with my turns a little while ago, and I was going to type my write-up now, but my sister threw out my notes!
I can't remember enough about the turns to type up a decent report, and I can't replay the turns until tomorrow morning. If you want to skip me this turn instead of waiting, I'm fine with that. I'm sorry for yet another delay.
A few things I remember:
We do get a monopoly on Polytheism
I traded for CoL, Philosophy, Construction, and Map Making.
The Vikings demand 31 gold from us. (Is the random seed on or off?)
I also started a one-worker hookup of a iron source near the end of my turn.
I can't remember enough about the turns to type up a decent report, and I can't replay the turns until tomorrow morning. If you want to skip me this turn instead of waiting, I'm fine with that. I'm sorry for yet another delay. A few things I remember:
We do get a monopoly on Polytheism
I traded for CoL, Philosophy, Construction, and Map Making.
The Vikings demand 31 gold from us. (Is the random seed on or off?)
I also started a one-worker hookup of a iron source near the end of my turn.
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