Eran's All-New Mormonism Thread

[El_Machinae]

How many new converts weren't already Christian? I'd think that accepting Jesus as Christ makes the Mormon revelation easier to believe.

Do the LDS believe that 'obvious' miracles happen, like the lame walking and the blind seeing after being prayed for?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Also, will you really get to be the god of your own planet? And, tell us about the magic underwear.

Those who truly follow and obey God in all forms, and endure and overcome the world, get their own universes. But it is really hard, of course. To become like God in the truest sense (although always dependent on Him) is the highest goal of Mormonism.

And the garments (as we call them) aren't "magic". They are given to those who receive certain blessings in the temple, to serve as a reminder of these promises and as a symbol of the faith. They have other symbolic values, but we consider these too sacred and important to discuss (even amongst ourselves) outside the temple.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

How many new converts weren't already Christian? I'd think that accepting Jesus as Christ makes the Mormon revelation easier to believe.

Do the LDS believe that 'obvious' miracles happen, like the lame walking and the blind seeing after being prayed for?

The majority were already Christian (in fact, probably between 1/3 and 1/2 of all church members are former Catholics) but there have been some from other denominations, particularly of course in nations with low Christian populations.

We do believe that medical miracles can happen, subject to the faith of those involved and God's will. In most of these cases, the medical and scientific factors can be seen, but they are still miracles if they couldn't happen without God's intervention.

 

[Tae]

Do Mormons believe that Jesus is God?

 

[.Shane.]

And the garments (as we call them) aren't "magic". They are given to those who receive certain blessings in the temple, to serve as a reminder of these promises and as a symbol of the faith. They have other symbolic values, but we consider these too sacred and important to discuss (even amongst ourselves) outside the temple.

Well, at least you admit they exist. I've had other Mormons totally deny it as if I'm making something up out of the blue.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, at least you admit they exist. I've had other Mormons totally deny it as if I'm making something up out of the blue.

They are a sensitive subject, to be sure. And it is possible that those you asked didn't even know about them.

@Tae: We believe that Jesus is God, for certain definitions of the word "God". He has a relationship with God, and divine attributes, that no human has. At the same time, we believe that he is a being separate from God the Father.

 

[GenMarshall]

What do the Mormons view other Christian denominations such as Roman Catholicism, Eastern Ortodoxy, Anglican/Episcopal, and Protestantism?

 

[Tae]

So Mormons believe in the Trinity?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

What do the Mormons view other Christian denominations such as Roman Catholicism, Eastern Ortodoxy, Anglican/Episcopal, and Protestantism?

We believe that the original church as Jesus founded it graudaully fell away from the truth after the death of the apostles. Many truths were lost, as well as most imprtantly the authority of the priesthood. The result we call "the Great Apostasy". However, the churches that came out of this apostasy (notably the Catholics, and the Protestants who branched off, as well as Eastern Orthodox), while missing some important doctrine and authority from God, also help many people to worship Christ and follow him. So other religions (this applies to non-Christian denominations as well) although not "true", are good if they help people to do right.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

So Mormons believe in the Trinity?

Not as most Christians believe in it. The Trinity defines the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as one in substance and being as well as in purpose. We believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate individuals, the latter two subordinate to the Father, but united in purpose.

 

[.Shane.]

What's your take on critics who say the foundings of Mormonism are fraudulent? Now, I'm not trying to make an argument w/ you on that, not at all. I realize that its not a useful discussion/debate and I don't want to bring down a friendly, open discussion.

My question is more in the sense, that you'd answer critics similar to critics of other faith, in that from a secular standpoint you argue the historical origins/validity of many of not most faiths? When you prepared for Mission work is this an area you are prepared/trained for?

I hope you see what I'm asking. I mean, "how" do you defend against this argument, vs. "what" you'd argue in defense, if that makes sense.

Just curious, and I hope you don't take offense to the question.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

What's your take on critics who say the foundings of Mormonism are fraudulent? Now, I'm not trying to make an argument w/ you on that, not at all. I realize that its not a useful discussion/debate and I don't want to bring down a friendly, open discussion.

My question is more in the sense, that you'd answer critics similar to critics of other faith, in that from a secular standpoint you argue the historical origins/validity of many of not most faiths? When you prepared for Mission work is this an area you are prepared/trained for?

I would say that the critics are wrong. From a purely historical viewpoint there is no actual proof that anything was fraudulent, it's just that the alternative (that it really came from God) is so incredible that the only thing to do, from a secular viewpoint, is to choose the first. But because of my faith, I am able to accept (in non-historical terms) the origin of my church, and any other religion with miraculous origins can do the same.

Missionaries get essentially no training in apologetics, which may surprise some. Most of those who argue with us do so from the perspective that the Bible is inerrant and that we interpreted it wrong, but the key message of our argument is that one can get the truth straight from God. In light of this, if someone insists that the Church is fraudulent, our answer is to ask God directly, through prayer. After all, we are not so much trying to convince people that the Church is good as trying to get them to learn on their own that it is right.

If they insist that God has told them we are wrong, or if they refuse to ask, there is nothing more we can say to them. Of course, I am here not as a missionary but as an information source, so my answer is that I believe that the Church is genuine, regardless of what anyone else happens to think.

 

[Tae]

Huh. Sounds like 3 Gods...not One.

But I won't say I diffinately understand the Trinity completely myself, so I am not arguing that you are wrong or right. Just wondered what you believe. I believe it was you that gave great post on the different views on the Trinity.

 

[GenMarshall]

What is the Mormon's view on the judgement as well as the salvation of people who are from mainstream Christianity (Catholic, Orthodoxy, Anglican/Episcopal, & Protestantism)?

 

[.Shane.]

I would say that the critics are wrong. From a purely historical viewpoint there is no actual proof that anything was fraudulent, it's just that the alternative (that it really came from God) is so incredible that the only thing to do, from a secular viewpoint, is to choose the first. But because of my faith, I am able to accept (in non-historical terms) the origin of my church, and any other religion with miraculous origins can do the same.

Yeah, I mean a secular argument. I agree, if this is what you mean, that I don't think you can make spiritual arguments that one religion is right or wrong, in that it all comes down to the individual and where they put their faith.

I meant more the historical origins as you might study them in history class. I find the origins to be pretty interesting, in that sense.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

What is the Mormon's view on the judgement as well as the salvation of people who are from mainstream Christianity (Catholic, Orthodoxy, Anglican/Episcopal, & Protestantism)?

It is the same as for non-Christians. Those who live a good life, following the truth as best they know it, and who in the next life accept God and all that He teaches, will be saved. This includes the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the fulness of which is found here and now only in the Church, but is not the same thing as the church.

We believe that everyone also needs to receive baptism (only properly administered by the Church) and other ordinances, but for the majority of the human race who dies without it, it is done by proxy by members of the church. That is one of the purposes of the temples. And the result of temple baptisms isn't that we go around proclaiming that those who received it are now really Mormons up in heaven (well, not usually).

So being LDS is not a prerequisite for salvation, we just have a little bit of a head start.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Huh. Sounds like 3 Gods...not One.

But I won't say I diffinately understand the Trinity completely myself, so I am not arguing that you are wrong or right. Just wondered what you believe. I believe it was you that gave great post on the different views on the Trinity.

Yes, it was, and we fall under "subordinate tritheism".

@.Shane.: exactly. I can neither prove nor disprove from a historical viewpoint that the angel Gabriel really did or didn't reveal the Qur'an to Muhammad. Some churches have claims that are clearly contradicted by history or science (like if you make it the cornerstone of your faith that aliens will come on June 6, 2006, and the day passes without incident) but for the most part it is spiritual.

 

[Tae]

So salvation is based upon works?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

So salvation is based upon works?

We believe in salvation by grace, or that salvation is only possible because of the Atonement of Christ and that no one who receives it can truly deserve it. However, it is conditional on works, in the sense that without good works we cannot become the sort of people who can get it.

An analogy: Your rich uncle calls you up and says that he will give you $100 million as long as you write a return letter. No one will say that writing that letter entitles you to the money, and you won't say that you got the money just for writing a letter, but without it, no money.

 

[GenMarshall]

What is an ordinance in the Mormon vocabulary?
Since I am baptised in the Catholic Church in the trinidarian formula, would that make my baptism invalid in Mormon Theology?